Bergen Tool Project/New CVS
Last night was the conceptual meeting for phase two, here are the general ideas.
The retention pond for the property is proposed to be included in our 3 acres of open space.
In attempts to save the woods in the back of the property, the jade engineers proposed to just fence off this area, and of course include it in the three acres of open space. This was obviously not okay with the board, but the jade associates claimed in order to comply with DEP, all the trees must be removed to be able to cap the property.
Why this was the case idk, from previous reports the only contaminants were sand piles, and the only hazardous materials were reminents from motor bikes being run on these piles. But they are claiming they must level the whole property. The board in a way called their bluff, without saying flat out no to the fence.
There was no public meeting as this was a informal conceptual, but after the meeting in old business I made a comment that our town engineer needs to further look into what they are claiming because i find it very hand to believe. Jade kept saying over and over that the neighbors want to keep the trees, but as the board said, the neighbors were probably not told that they would have a fence and the site would not be cleaned. I feel the best option here is to do what we need to do to make sure this site gets 100% cleaned up, and re-plant fast growing trees. Obviously fencing the area is the cheapest alternative for the builder that's why they were proposing it.
Darrin 
eperot because it is easier for the developer then working around them, planning boards can make changes so this doesn't happen.
I remember during another meeting over the last 2 years that this was brought up during a discussion and quite a few people stated that a fence was not a solution as that space would then be deemed unusable. The whole point of fighting for the 3 acres as open space was that the space be usable recreation space. A detention basin and a fence do not allow for this space to be usable recreation space...
michelemorp How about letting the kids have the bike track back. I grew up in those "woods" riding bmx.
jon 
Don't let clear cut tree wood chip piles stinking, steaming, and ready to self combust happen to you...
[2006 building of Hunters Brook]
GC Well Nancy of our board brought up the idea of mixed use open space, she was the one that practically offered up the retention pond to be added to the park. Judging by the boards reaction I would say there is no way the fence is going to cut it, and the board does not seem to be buying the all or nothing tactics of the developer of trees with a fence or we cut down everything.
IMO I think the developer should loose any idea of a third phase, in which they are looking at a 17,000 square foot office building i believe behind the second phase. This property should be used as the park, especially since there is already talk from our town engineer that the proposed retention pond needs to be 3 times the size shown, and another retention pond may need to be added at the top of the property.
What about liability for people falling into water in the retention pond, who is going to regulate this? I think it is a nice idea, if the retention pond always had water in it, but considering it will probably be a muddy mess, what does a walking path around it do for us as a park?
Walking path give squitos target practice.
If they cut the trees, cap the area, can they reclaim it for park with new trees?
mistergoogle yes they can, but they said if they cut down the trees they couldn't see any reason to re-plant.....????? uhhhhh....yeah
I am pretty sure the board will make them properly clean and re-plant
The pond always had water in it you'd have a whole flock of Canada geese that will be worse than whatever the developer can throw at you.
Darrin - out of the pond maybe, but they'll still be roaming all around it no matter what you do.
Hopefully they will see that a nice park will increase the value of the condo's or whatever that they are trying to sell.
Trees are cheap but not capping and fencing is cheaper so that's probably at the center of their thinking, or not thinking :>)
Good luck.
The next fight will be the retention pit being included in the open space. guaranteed that will be up next, the agreement was never a dual use open space, what can you do with a retention pond in a park, if it has water in it all the time sure it is nice, but judging by the discharge plans this will not be the case/
Well what did you expect, they got most of what they wanted in Phase 1 and and thanks to Darrin and other's who relentlessly worked to get them to make the changes they did. They are always going to try and get things done in the cheapest way possible. As far as retention pond goes, we have one in our neighborhood and it winds up being nothing more than a big ugly overgrown weed pit. Thank God it is not near my house. Keep up the good fight Darrin.
kb2755 
sam I really think this whole project needs a second opinion on storm water management by a state official.
They plan on adding a minimum of 1 foot on top of the entire property to "cap" the contaminated soil. This plus the grading changes are bound to create off site problems. Even if they could get all the water through the admitted "undersized pipe" it would create many problems down stream.
A neutral party needs to look at these plans, a party which is not benefited nor hurt by the occurrence of the development.
More neighbors need to get involved in these meetings, one or two people standing up saying we do not want this "mosquito pond" included in our promised 3 acres open space is not going to cut it. Concerned residents that are looking forward to the park need to get to the meetings and speak for what they want, other wise we will end up with 3 acres of open space, only 1.5 usable because the other sections are either fenced off or a retention pit.
Really IMO, this site development needs to be spread out into distant phases. This big of a change to the areas topography and water traits can have irreversible disastrous results in more ways then one. The site should be developed in the phases as discussed but then observed for some time after each phase to note any changes with runoff or any other adverse happenings, the proposed plans are too much of a change all at once.
I like the retention pond between Weiss and Shoprite! Would something like that work?
notafan Valleyview Woods has a retention pond. Works great and we don't have any more mosquitos than anywhere else in town. It works great and have never had a problem with flooding anywhere. And the same engineer worked it.
Christine Christine, you always compare two different areas of problems. Your flooding in Valleyview cannot be compared to another areas flooding. This area, as stated by the town engineer, has a HUGE area of runoff coming into the property, not just from the Bergen property, I believe the engineer said that there is like 45 acres worth of runoff from other properties that actually runs INTO the Bergen property.
I am not saying it will not work, I am saying that these massive changes should be done slowly and carefully, not all in one big leap. The developer is already pushing plans for phase two, we have not even seen how they perform on phase 1 yet, lets take this one step at a time and make sure our changes do not have any adverse affects before the whole property is developed and it is too late to make any changes.
here we go again! 1st you gloat how you got just about everything you asked for and now you are complaining again that what you asked for won't work. You asked for the larger retention pond to be included in Phase 1 and now you are calling the rentention pond a "mosquito pond"? I thought that is what you wanted?
"Really IMO, this site development needs to be spread out into distant phases.....the proposed plans are too much of a change all at once."
???? I thought you wanted everything to happen in Phase 1 now you want even more Phases?
Your post from the Bergen Tool thread:
"A lot of changes were made to the plan over time, and many I voiced, which I am very happy with, so overall it was a win :-)"
darwin Nonesense darwin!
I specifically said "I am not saying it will not work, I am saying that these massive changes should be done slowly and carefully, not all in one big leap" So don;t put words in my mouth!!!!
and also if you actually read the forum you will see that it was not me that called it a "mosquito pond", I was in fact replying to someone else
"I thought you wanted everything to happen in Phase 1 now you want even more Phases? ....... What were you not informed that this property was subject to multiple phases of construction???? You didn't think I would be only concened about the first phase did you?
So as usually you come on here freaking out with out first fully understanding what conversations have been going on, just like old times....claiming I said things I never did just to make a spectical.....nice try buddy
""A lot of changes were made to the plan over time, and many I voiced, which I am very happy with, so overall it was a win :-)"
Yes I did say that about PHASE 1, buddy, look at the name of this post, this is for PHASE 2!
Nice to hear for you again though!
LOL i know you didn't coin the term "mosquito pond". I am just confused by this statement you made:
More neighbors need to get involved in these meetings, one or two people standing up saying we do not want this "mosquito pond" included in our promised 3 acres open space is not going to cut it."
I thought that was exactly what you wanted a bigger rentention pond then what was originally proposed?
And i know there are multiple phases to this project but yet again i am confused because you called for the rentention pond to be dug with phase 1 and now you say they should do each step 1 at a time to see how each step will effect the area...
Now now Darwin, please read the whole line, I know it is hard for you to get past the "we don't want the retention pond" part, but the rest of the line makes the point .... that the developer is trying to include their retention pond area in the town ordinance 3 acres open space park. Yes the retention pond needs to be bigger then planned, actually as stated by the town engineer three times bigger, so do we want this unusable area that houses the runoff from the development to be included in our promised park do we? Is this making sense?
The idea here is that the retention pond needs to be done, obviously, but it should in no way count as open space to meet the ordinance, as it is not usable space. How will a retention pond be usable space in a park? It is nasty runoff water, so no fishing, swimming, that's if it even has water in it all the time, At the last meeting....the one you were not at......the developer's proposed drawing showed water in the pond, So judging by that.........
The developer showed a phase 3 office building bordering the houses that are on Bergen street, this should be scratched in favor of a second pond (town engineers suggestion) and a fair 3 acres open space, not a unusable area,
"i am confused because you called for the retention pond to be dug with phase 1 and now you say they should do each step 1 at a time to see how each step will effect the area..."
Darwin, have you forgotten everything? Phase 1 will have a temporary retention "area" I guess you can say, with the construction of phase 2, the "real" retention pond will be put in.
Darrin, Have you seen our runoff from the Mountain in Valleyview Woods? It outweighs any runoff Bergen Tool has ever had. Let the engineers do their jobs in which they were hired.
Using the open space for the retention pond is definitely a no no. I agree the open space should be what it was said for open space. One has nothing to do with the other.
BTW be careful what you ask for. Asking them to do each phase slowly can cause more problems then you think. Retention ponds should be done in a way to not cause any more problems with flooding during the construction.
Christi ne's considering the Engineers said that we will not be making the situation worse with phase 1 and in fact making it better I would expect to see that before phase 2 comes into play
there is nothing wrong with having helpful input to the engineers if you were the meetings you would know that or engineer publicly Thankedme for my help, so the answer to that is no I am NOT going to just sit back and not worry
I'm glad at least somebody understands what I am saying about the retention pond and open space issue
Darrin??????
I never said you should sit back.
I agree with you with the open space.
I have no idea why your first sentence is met for me.
sometimes I feel you just like to hear yourself talk.
Christine, I have no idea what you are talking about, I was trying to have a friendly talk with YOU, and you escalated it. All I was doing was responding to your line " Let the engineers do their jobs in which they were hired." Which is saying for me to not worry, the engineers will figure it out, so yes you did say to sit back.
The first sentence was in response to yours "BTW be careful what you ask for. Asking them to do each phase slowly can cause more problems then you think. Retention ponds should be done in a way to not cause any more problems with flooding during the construction."
"sometimes I feel you just like to hear yourself talk." Considering you are responding to me......it's pretty dumb to say i am talking to myself, isn't it??? I mean, I do agree, talking to you is like talking to a wall, but for you to agree too, that is fabulous!!!!!!
You just proved my point. You have no idea what I was saying.......You are the kind of person who has to get the last word in no matter what. Even when someone is agreeing with you.
Keep fighting your so called fight Darrin. I still predict CVS will be built to our engineers recommendations.
Christine, this is not about CVS, the title very clearly reads PHASE 2, and that's what we have been talking about!!!!!! You and others keep bringing up CVS, that part is done, we are discussing the second phase of the bergen tool development now, the 99 apartments and how many ever stores.....You have no idea how this project will be done do you? You just comment to comment....seems like you need to re-think your reasons before telling me I like to hear myself talk, because you are commenting without having any clue about this project other than what has been posted on HL.
Seems like you are the one not understanding!
LOL "You are the kind of person who has to get the last word in no matter what. Even when someone is agreeing with you"
Umm, you had to add in the jab "sometimes I feel you just like to hear yourself talk" even though you agreed with me.....of course I would have a response!
Keep ranting Darrin and lets see where it gets you in "Phase II"
My prediction "Phase II" will be done according to the way the Town Engineer agrees upon with the Town.
That better?
LOL
Of course it will, Christine you are stating the obvious. The town engineers job as well as the boards job is to take all things into account, including PUBLIC opinion/concerns. The town engineer then, with all factors considered, makes his professional opinion on the site, so of course it will be done to his recommendations......that's how it works.
Keep reading the forum, and you will see that going to the meetings, stating valid concerns, with valid reasons, does actually benefit the town, and most of what the public says is usually included, obviously sometimes certain things are found not feasible. So keep reading, you will see, that you can make a difference, although you feel otherwise.
There is nothing "ranting" about this, I am just responding to your constant cluelessness of how the system works.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Its funny I know who you are but you do not know who I am.
Its funny how no one ever knew you before this project became to be Darrin. Why is that? Before I became ill I was at 80% of Town Hall meetings and I volunteer on 2 Committees. I know perfectly well how the "system works". I can tell you more then you think that coming on a forum and ranting to the same people is not the way to do it. haven't you figured it out yet by very few people who support you here never come to meetings. I have been to 1 and got my answers so I feel the need to let the professionals do their jobs.
IMO you are just one of those neighbors that don't want it in their back yard. that's the only reason you are out in front. If you are not then my bad. BUT there are many projects in this town that are going on that need to be fixed and we never hear about them.
You still don't get that do you? AMAZING!
Merry Christmas!
Christine great job summing Darrin up. He really does love to pontificate on things and yet most of has been gone over and over and over, well you get the point. I think it's a classic NIMBY scenario by Darrin who I still believe just doesn't want anything to happen. If he were to look at the plans it would appear that even if a basin goes in there is still the required 3 acres of open space. I'm not sure whose driving the retention basin in the rear but according to the testimony the real problem is all the water coming towards Bergen "off-site" that the town should have some responsibility I would think. So to the extent that a basin does happen in the back and the town and the residents in that neighborhood benefit isn't that a win for everyone. I know Darrin won't see it that way but perhaps enlightened minds will.
townie jim Great job buddying up with Christine townie jim, cause you never have enough of a backbone to do it yourself. LMAO
Of course everyone knows who I am now it is very obvious where I live, I had made it obvious through many posts in the past, and I am not afraid of that.
The thing I find amazing, Christine, is that you agree with me on the open space/retention pond issue, yet you continue to bash me for fighting against that.......now that is amazing.
You come one here saying I am complaining about CVS, when this is about phase two, you and Darwin say I said things I never said. It seems like you have your own agenda to just shut me up. You say that no one follows this post, yet you reply over and over asking asking for more and more. You totally ignore the number of people who have posted in agreeance with my posts. You have no idea how many neighbors around me support me, you just in general have no freaking clue Christine. And townie jim has always been a tag along puppet so I have never been concerned about him.
So let me get this straight.... you guys think that since I am saying that the retention pond should not be included in our 3 acres open space that I am a NIMBY???? It is not even close to my house, I wouldn't even be able to see it!!! I am concerned about the good of the community, the 3 acres open space was a ordinance that was agreed upon years ago, it was not to include a retention pond, and it was not to be fenced off.
"IMO you are just one of those neighbors that don't want it in their back yard. that's the only reason you are out in front. If you are not then my bad"
Christine, you don't get it at all, you just want to bash me hoping I go away, one day I will find out where you live and I will be at your doorstep talking your ear off about it. See I am not "afraid" for people to know where I live, what I am fighting for is to benefit the community, you may not see it that way, but when CVS was passed Paul Sterben thanked me for my continual help in the project, help which led to many changes.....changes that benefited our town.
Also if I was a NIMBY, why hasn't the board shut me up once, they are always willing to hear what I have to say in it's entirety.
What is your problem with helping to benefit the town Christine, why do you feel I should just take a back seat and let whatever happens happen?
Take a look at a simple job that's close to your home. The new curbs they put on prospect street, they couldn't even do those right. Some of the dips for pedestrians are pitched lower then the street and when it rains they gutter water in front of them....take a look at that some time, cause I bet you never noticed it, and as you would say "same engineer worked on that"
Christ ine before your flatter yourself let me just say that I don't care where you live I don't want to know where you live I have no interest in it whatsoever
if I really wanted to know where you live I'm sure you wouldn't be too hard to find considering your picture is right next to your name
you always seem to go off topic in order to meet your own agenda
Darrin, relax a little it's getting a little too personal
And Christine i think you did hear from Darrin before, but i think he went by THE MORP. was this you Darrin?
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/90539
It is not good for the community it is good for the developer..Who is going to maintain the thing? More lies..out the local government. They have promised this community forever that this would not happen..
pampur what are you rambling about? more lies? what lies? nothing has been approved... not even close to being approved! And what is there to maintain?
ROLTFLMAO........
"The thing I find amazing, Christine, is that you agree with me on the open space/retention pond issue, yet you continue to bash me for fighting against that.......now that is amazing. states Darrin......where did I bash you?
"You come one here saying I am complaining about CVS, when this is about phase two, you and Darwin say I said things I never said." states Darrin.......Prove anywhere on this thread or the other thread that I did this.
"if I really wanted to know where you live I'm sure you wouldn't be too hard to find considering your picture is right next to your name" states Darrin......sorry Darrin I wish that was me but its not. I am well known in this community. I have been here for 50 years. Raised here, raised my children here and now my grandchildren are being raised here. Like I said previously I am active in the community and do my best to help the community. I am not hard to find.
" I am concerned about the good of the community, the 3 acres open space was a ordinance that was agreed upon years ago, it was not to include a retention pond, and it was not to be fenced off." states Darrin......Plans change. The plans in our development did not include a retention pond either. fortunately the project manager thought it was necessary and convinced the developer to put it in with the approval of the Town Engineer. Our retention pond is not fenced in. It does not mean the CVS project should not be but every project is different. Weis and Home Depot's retention ponds are not fenced in and they actually look really nice. Not that its in town but they work and serve the purpose.
I know I have said this before but maybe I should state it again. Maybe your demeanor or the way you "sound" on the forum here or the way you state your facts is not the way you should go about what you think is important to you. I have a few friends that live in the area and they are not on here looking for force to change things. They join committees go to town meetings (yeah yeah I know you do) and get the facts straight from the correct source, work with the Town and the Engineer to come up with a better understanding and solution to said problems. My whole "problem" (not sure if this is the correct term for you) with you is you come on here and claim its all wrong we need to band together etc. etc. (I am paraphrasing this)
I cannot say it any more simpler than that. Have a great Christmas and Healthy New Year!
I am concerned about the good of the community, the 3 acres open space was a ordinance that was agreed upon years ago, it was not to include a retention pond, and it was not to be fenced off."
here is the Revised Master Plan, I don't see where it says the 3 acres of open space can not include a retention pond. or any mention of fence or no fence
http://www.mtolivetwp.org/3%2027%2013%20Hackettstown%20PB%20Re%20Resolution%20Master%20Plan.pdf
Also from the origianl 2008 Master Plan:
"and leaving between 3 and 4.5 acres in the rear for a recreational use to be determined later."
There are not ordinances saying a rentention pond can not be part of that open space. and again no mention of fence or no fence
So let's please stick with facts
No darwin, I have always posted by darrin, as per prior meetings the land was not to be used as a retention pond. I personally know the morph and he has a better knowledge of what is going on than any one of you
Christine, I recognize you love to constantly argue, but I have better things to do with my time, things that will actually help the community, so you have great holidays and have fun arguing with yourself
For the record I never said it is all wrong, you are yet again putting words in my mouth to attempt to create a argument
and where did Fencing in the retention pond come into a fact I never said that!!!!! they want a fenced in area which they will not be enviromentally cleaning and a retention pond area they are two separate areas, man how everyone changes how things were said
Really Darrin you're not THE MORP? Cause this post by him sounds exactly like you :)
"When I bought my property that borders the Bergen Tool property, I investigated what all the properties were zoned all around me. The Bergen Tool property was and still is zoned for Light Manufacturing. My wife and I made the decision to buy the property with the thought that we could have a manufacturing neighbor in the future and not the present ballfield and wooded area. We were alright with that. In my opinion, the problem arose when THE PRESENT OWNERS and THE CONTRACTED BUYER want to change the zoning. I don't want to live next to an apartment complex or a housing development with 60-100 units on 10.5 acres. The fact that the zoning can change to meet the needs of the parties that profit from it, is where I have the problem"
First off I am not married, yet, and no it is not me, I have nothing to hide, always been and always will be darrin, my real name, unlike others who hide behind fake names. at least you introduced yourself under your real name when we met
Darrin on the contrary I do not like to argue but I do like to see facts. If you think my above post is an argument then may I suggest you reread it?
"For the record I never said it is all wrong, you are yet again putting words in my mouth to attempt to create a argument" states Darrin.......did you not see that I paraphrased what I said? Do you understand that definition?
Wait a minute darwin.... towniejim, nah too big of vocabulary difference. townjim loses me simply with big words
Christine do you understand that by saying lines such as do you understand that definition that can be construed as taking a jab at someone? you come off as very rude not to mention what you call paraphrasing in fact can be construed as trying to make other readers believe otherwise from what was originally said so why don't you keep to the facts rather than paraphrasing them
OK Darrin I see that you are one of those people that MUST have the last word. Carry on........................WOW
Morp , Darrin I think bergen tool has more than one house on it's boarder and i think most have a concern.
ola Christine, the last word should be in the PM I just sent you. It's amazing how easy it is to figure out who someone is when they challenge you to it by saying
" Its funny I know who you are but you do not know who I am "
I find it funny now!
I guess to most I come off differently via writing what I say.
I know Darwin hates me, but I think, at least hope for the sake of making a point, that he would agree that I do carry myself differently when presenting my concerns in front of the Planning Board. I have a tough time getting out what I am trying to say in writing, and usually end up with a lot of repeating. Darwin is really the only poster on here I have ever seen at a meeting, at least who was courteous enough to introduce himself.
Well even if he doesn't agree, many of the board members have made positive comments on how well I present info, so you can think whatever you want. I know my concerns have made a positive difference in the plans, a difference that will help the community, and that's all I need to know, even if you feel otherwise.
Darwin,
"There are not ordinances saying a rentention pond can not be part of that open space. and again no mention of fence or no fence
So let's please stick with facts"
In the master plan you just posted, it clearly states that 3 acres of land is to remain for recreational use, how your you consider a retention pond that is full of runoff or mud sometimes grass or a fenced in inaccesible area able to be recreationally used?? The master plan requires this 3 acres to be usable.....a retention pond and fenced off area is not usable.
There is no sense even arguing abou the fenced off area, the board has made it very clear they are unhappy with the fenced off area and will not approve it. The big question here is if the developments retention pond should be included in our public park. Keep in mind, there may still be a second retention pond being added as per the request of the town engineer.
"I guess to most I come off differently via writing what I say."
Darrin - I don't know you, but couldn't agree more with the spirit of this statement. I think this effects most people. Much of communication is in body language and voice inflection, communicating electronically is very often a fruitless effort - especially if it's an argument. I come across this often at work - e-mail for example, is not the place to hash out differences because there is much that gets lost in translation. Many times I see people waste time going back and forth electronically bickering about something when if they just sat in a room together usually it can be worked out in short order.
Good luck to all of you and I hope a compromise is reached that everyone can live with.
Over itGlad you find it funny Darrin! Taking it personal just shows me that you are an immature ass. I was NOT challenging you to find out who I was personally. If you read the whole post I was telling you I am active in the town in which I live! Good JOB! You still cannot get what I am telling you or you cannot comprehend.
Threats from you or anyone else on this forum will not be tolerated by me. I have no problem going to the police and filing a complaint and/or restraining order. All the info you sent me is personal and public knowledge except my private phone number. A handful of people have access to it and if I can guess I know who gave it to you and he is an ass also.
Stick to the topic and leave personal agenda out of it. you just showed your true colors and made my point about this whole subject.
There have been absolutely no threats at all Christine. I am very sorry u feel that way.
Personal phone numbers are in the phone books they hand out to everyone every year, nothing private about it.
Why are you posting at midnight??? Jeez go to bed!!!
Christine I ask you very nicely please leave this post. Threatening to involve police over a forum post you were unhappy with is ridiculous and maybe this post is just not for you, please stop responding with constant personal antics, this is about phase 2 of the Bergen tool project. Thank you
Darrin,
I will go one step further. I am officially asking the owner/moderators to lock this thread due to your personal threats, antics and going off subject. Everyone has a right to an opinion BUT when you make it personal you should be not allowed to make contributions to this thread. Its people like you that make great forums disappear. My phone number is unlisted and always has been so don't lie about it.
Would you like me to post what you sent me? Because I am pretty sure most people would take that as harassment like this statement above:
"Christine, you don't get it at all, you just want to bash me hoping I go away, one day I will find out where you live and I will be at your doorstep"..........
So please moderators lock this thread to stop the madness! Its not flattering to this Forum. If you need me to send the email I will do so
To every one else on this forum, I apologize for the turn that this thread has taken, I guess some people have nothing better to do then directly attack concerned residents over a topic in which they are not even affected.
I will be ignoring anything else she posts for the good of our town, something I am deeply concerned about.
So...........when is the next planning meeting? Anyone know?
skippy ......crickets.......
Merry Christmas to everyone! 2 more hours till 2 week break from work!!!!
AGAIN Darrin point me to where I EVER attacked you? NOW you are claiming "guess some people have nothing better to do then directly attack concerned residents over a topic in which they are not even affected."
Wasn't it you that said I should be concerned over it? don't try to back peddle now Darrin. That's not an apology that is a statement to try to get out of what you said and emailed me. You act like the victim here and the almighty savior of Hackettstowns "Phase II" but now Hackettstowns finest know the truth.
ok well i'm going go back to the topic at hand:
"how your you consider a retention pond that is full of runoff or mud sometimes grass or a fenced in inaccesible area able to be recreationally used??"
Some of the board members mentioned 2 meeting ago that there ways to make retention ponds usable. They mentioned some retention ponds have a soccer field in the middle of them. They are larger and shallower so they are not always full of mud and water. Now I am not going to argue with you if that kind of plan will work in this spot, but since we are at step 1 of 20 in the approving process of Phase 2 and 3 I think we should hear all ideas and not go crazy at the first time the developer presents a conceptual plan.
Let’s enjoy the holidays, see what is presented at the next meeting and go from there.
Feliz Navidad Darrin
You are absolutely correct darwin. All I am going off is that a usable retention pond was not in the presenters description. Plus it was shown with water in it. Time will tell
If they're calling it a "retention" pond, it will have a permanent pool of water. But I'm not sure why it couldn't be incorporated into a recreation area. Put a walking path around it and add some benches.
iPhone-imal 
John C Lmao, there you go! business opportunity!!!
John c I have been meaning to ask you what is your affiliation with taps
Ianimal that's how it was with a walking path around I have a question for you maybe you can answer if they are building a pond that always has water in it how do they keep it from affecting the water level of the water table beneath the ground? It is shown very close to some Houses which I know already have basement water issues
exactly Imal. People want to act like a retention pond is going to be a big ugly pit. They can actually be made to look very nice and enhance the area. Take a look at these retention ponds:
Darrin. Could you please pm me... as my husband Steve Davis would like to speak with you..thanks.
Unless there's some sort of impermeable membrane liner, the permanent level of the pond "is" the natural water table elevation in that area. I don't think it would have any appreciable impact on adjacent water levels.
Darwin - I don't think the issue is whether or not a "retention pond" can look nice or not. Given enough $ and effort it certainly can. I think the bigger issues are both whether or not that effort will really be made (because the developers inclination is certainly not to), and where the land comes out of. If it comes out of the area already designated as open space it may mean there is 3 acres open, but only half of that is really usable. But if the pond comes out of the developer's Phase 2 area, then it's more like 4 acres total, with 3 usable. In that case I think the people of the area, as well as others in the town will be OK with it. There are also ways to keep the water flowing so it does not become a mosquito haven.
But our town officials, both planning board and town council must, must, must hold them to it. Don't let them agree to a pond included in the existing open space, make the developer provide it out of their piece. Plus make them put up enough of a performance bond to get it done right or they forfeit the bond the money fixes what the didn't. There's way more agreement about the issues than the silly bickering would suggest. ;-)
it seems like its going to be a mixed bag of who feels if the retention pond should be part of our open space or if it should be part of the developers property
I animal the retention pond was shown guessing probably about a maximum of 50 feet from a house to me personally I feel like this will greatly increase the amount of water in the basement of That home. This is not even considering the house is that border the East prospect side because the retention pond will be close to them too. I don't think my house is close enough to be affected. But I am very concerned for the other residents that will end up very close to the pond. We all know how the soil around this area absorbs water and the answer to that is a pretty much doesn't
Darrin, I'm Senior Historian and Investigator for The Atlantic Paranormal Society and owner of Hackettstown Paranormal Group (www.facebook.com/hackettstownparanormal)
Darrin, the water that will be the permanent pool of the retention pond is already in the soil. All that they are going to do is remove the soil around it. That part will have absolutely no impact on neighboring houses.
Now, when it rains, the volume of the pond above the permanent pool level will temporarily hold additional runoff and slowly release it to a storm sewer system or to a nearby stream (I haven't seen the plans, I don't know what the proposed discharge is). This could "potentially" impact the groundwater levels in the area, based upon the volume of water, the detention time and the permeability of the adjacent soils.
For a smallish development like this one, I don't believe there will be an issue. The volume of water detained is relatively small, the detention times are relatively short and the permeability (per your observations) is very slow. The movement of water in soil with good permeability is in the neighborhood of two inches per hour... in bad soil, such as yours, it's measured in TENTHS of an inch per hour. The water's least resistance is going to be through the outlet structure, not through the soil.
Ianimal, Thank you for the explanation. Last I read the normal water table of this area was at 20 feet, are retention ponds that deep? Now mind you when that test was done was back a few years during one of the environmental impact studies. My concern would be that phases two and three are planning....currently....to run all their runoff water into this pond, and then since the pipes under west stiger are addmitadly undersized, they will slowly release the water into the bigger pipe under east stiger which eventually ends up flowing into the Brook.
General concern would be the temporary added water lever that close to the houses. If it is a problem I am sure Paul will pickup on it, and if not I am sure he will have a explanation why it will be okay.
If the water table is that deep and they are proposing a retention pond, then it will likely by designed with a membrane to prevent exfiltration.
That doesn't make much sense though... you don't typically design retention basins unless you have to, or if you're looking for irrigation supply. In this situation, a dry "detention" basin would make more sense to me.
Yes I agree ianimal, that's why I am confused. Judging by the plans the basin will be used for overflow that cannot make it down the undersized pipes to the brook. How I comprehend it, is that the bigger pipe they are putting on east stiger will be allowed to back flow into the basin rather then overflowing on the street, plus all the runoff from the second and third phase will run into it. They will also be piping the runoff that goes down third street into the Bergen property into it as well. Still a second one may be added on the other side or the upper part of the property to further control the water coming onto and from the property.
I would say that it is a possibility the drawing was shown with water in it to be more appeasing to the board as having a walking path around it. It seems to be a good question to bring up at the next meeting though.
Water is a problem in every new project in Hackettstown. Most contractors will look at the situation.
They will come up with a solution to comply with proper drainage.
This is the last large project in Hackettstown that we know of.
The State of New Jersey should be notified of the undersized piping, the over flooding and have them do a study.
taking down Bergen Tool will give you an idea on how much overflow will be added.
Can the ground take much more in this area without doing something flooding . NO
Can we do something about it without causing the tax payers to pay for the control. NO
We can contact the State Department of Agriculture and get some direction and have them study the are. Most of the north end of Hackettstown is springs and a continuous filtering of water.
Look at Prospect street north . How many homes have water in their basement now.
I know people who are struggling with this.
Our ground cant hold much more and most of all it was pointed out that a detention pond holds water and slowly releases it A retention pond hold water.
We need an engineer to study the complete area and let the town know how serious of a problem this is.
Our town engineer is not certified nor is Mr. Rice.
I feel an environment impact study should be done just like changing the plans again to knock down the main building.
REMEMBER, ONCE IT IS DONE AND OVER WITH, WE ARE STUCK WITH IT AND IT IS TIME TO SAY DO IT RIGHT OR DON'T GIVE THEM PERMITS.
YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY ARE PUSHING FOR A QUICK PHASE 2 APPROVAL.
Hackettstown should say no and not make any more changes for any contractor until this concern is fully met.
I hope the state says the same.
ALSO SAY NO TO TAKING AWAY OUR OPEN SPACE AGREET UPON.
This site has already given people a bad taste and the worst is yet to come.
The town should follow up on Mr. Rice's past and see what he did , if anything for the other projects. This is important.
He got his way on CVS. Now lets push him to do it right.
The last thing is I spoke to another large contractor and he said it is not right that Mr. Rice do nothing for the surrounding area tax payers. He ignores them, has an attitude and said " I do not have to do anything for the surrounding areas or make any changes".
Please take pictures and document the flooding and problems you have now. Give them to the engineer and the State of NJ. Lets get some action done as the Planning Bd. has tried and gets pushed around.
Charlie
Charlie The town engineer is not certified? I think Mr.Sterbenz P.E., P.P.,CME would disagree.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-sterbenz-p-e-p-p-cme/33/93/800
Greg Maybe he meant not certified as a flood plain manager... That part is true.
http://www.floods.org/Certification/certlist.asp#NJ
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/express-times/index.ssf/2014/01/bergen_tool_property_redevelop.html
And yes Paul is not certified in flood plain
Got it. Just curious is the space considered a floodplain area now or is it simply a matter of conducting a study in order to determine if in fact the area classifies as one? I thought a floodplain is an area near a river or stream that when flood levels are reached, floods. Can an area be classified a floodplain as a result of construction either new or old as opposed to a natural river or stream?
Sorry if this was coverd in this or other Bergen Tool threads as I did not go back and review.
As an aside, Maser Consulting has a floodplain manager on staff. I would assume Mr. Stubenz would have access to that person no?
It is not considered a flood plain per say, but as discovered by a flood survey done by the property owner, the property has a ridiculous amount of outside runoff coming onto the site, being as it is currently a low spot in town, thus the huge concern with raising the property and the huge changes to the drainage system they are proposing.
The neighbors are very concerned because they are planning to raise the property and do a complete overhaul of the drainage system in the area. If it fails, the property will no longer be the low spot in this area, thus all the water that used to run onto the property will now be pushed onto the surrounding houses.
Of course Paul has access to a consultant in the field, but as brought up in the meetings the computer models that were shown as how the flooding happens and where it happens did not line up with what the surrounding residents have seen happening. So we are hoping that the state will do their own survey and find this out. Engineers making computer models assuming how the water flow happens does not stand against multiple residents that have seen way worse then what was shown in my opinion.
To be honest, a flood plain manager isn't exactly an expert on flooding, at least not necessarily. Looking at the list, I see a couple of Construction Officials I know who would never be confused with experts on flooding hydrology. Basically, they are usually the person in a municipality who is responsible for reviewing applications for proposed development in a flood plain. If there is any question whether the proposed activity is in conflict with the town's Flood Damage Protection Ordinance, it gets kicked to the Planning Board for review. It's not really an issue in this case because there are no regulated floodplains on the property.
It's not really an issue in this case because there are no regulated floodplains on the property. This is correct, but the problem is that there is a known problem with the pipeline that runs under the intersection and out to the brook. It is know and has been admitted to being undersized. Current plans for phase one are adding water to this, but the problem is to be mitigated by putting a larger pipe under east stiger to hold more of this runoff underground, where as now it just pushed back out of the sewer drains. I am interested in seeing this work, because, with all factors involved, including lowering the road, then adding water from bergen street (which never came this way) that will now be being piped over to the undersized pipe, plus the addition of CVS running their runoff into this pipe has me concerned. It doesn't seem to add up.
With the addition of phase 2 a retention pond will allow any over flow of this bigger east stiger pipe to back flow into the retention pond and be held there untill it can freely flow under the intersection and out the brook. At least this is what I am understanding. I feel much more comfortable with the phase two plans. Either way any failure of the system will no longer have the low spot of the bergen property to be pushed onto, it will now be pushed onto the neighbors, if it does every overflow out of the piping. But that's why they make cameras / lawyers / bonds..... the tricky part is trying to actually get them to fix a problem they created. I still think rice would be way better off buying out the 3 home owners that live on east stiger ....they he can do whatever he wants with that area.
No new meeting agendas have been put up, but according to the 2013 schedule the next meeting is January 28, 2014 at 7:30
Water will run down hill. That is the story
Once has entered the little brook, it will flow and pick up more water and eventually reach Grand Avenue. From there through the NJ fish hatchery.
Why doesn't the State step in like it did in Chester NJ.
Now we are dealing with surface water , heavy snow storms and retention ponds.
What's next.
The mayor picks the planning bd. HMMMMMMMM.
Now lets set the stage. What happens to the bid. I guess lay them off. They will only have to worry about the Bergen Site. That will save money.
Did it do the town any good. No Ask the store owners how they like it. They don't
I just uses money for nothing. People on Main St. are very unhappy with the Bid, the Mayor and with allowing the town to be pushovers.
Yes , take time and ask the store owners what they think.
More stores are planning to sell or move on to another town.
Washington NJ is picking up some of our business.
We will never be a Chester, only a town to spend money and try to look important.
If Mr. Rice would take consideration for the neighbors, he would have more respect from the the neighbors who would rather see the town and the mayor step up to the base and not put people on the Planning Board that knows little about construction, engineers and management.
None of them have this type of experience. This causes lawyers to push them around.
Darrin, you should look into one of the volunteer positions the mayor has.
She made a comment on the radio that she is looking for people to volunteer in town positions.
I know people who tried and they were turned away.
You might stand a chance.
What would happen if everyone around the town that was involved with this project stopped paying taxes.
I know 4 families who want out around this project.
Somehow taxes will rise and police will be hired and crime will go up.
They took down a family mall and build Lowes. Ok now this limits who shops there.
Main St. is only consignment and barber shops.
Mansfield picked up the ratable malls and Washington Twp. has dealerships with Hackettstown names.
Why do we still have Knechel Ford vacant. Plenty of parking and the building use to be an ACME food store. Why not look and push that store and forget the water.
Have an environmental impact study done with NJ State and see what they can do to help us with this issue. Water and traffic will be a major problem. Once it is done the taxpayers will be stuck with the problems and the bill to pay for upgrade.
Put this on the States shoulder and make them do a survey.
As far as Mr. Rice , he will develop and sell and laugh all the way to the bank.
CVS could have saved a ton of money if they took it over.
All contractors that I know would try to help the community if they have concerns on what they are doing.
Finally when Phase 2 and 3 is finished, It will be covered by buildings and blacktop.
Now you really have a water problem the retention ponds will not help.
We should have a phase done and completed and see what happens before the town allows the building of phase 2. Monitor it along with the traffic.
Clean up the building site before even talking about the second phase.
No clean-up no permits.
Charlie
Steve Davis I really wish I did have the time to be further involved and would love to be, but currently with working 40-60 hours a week, plus going to school still, plus planning a wedding, it has been very very very busy. I make the time to go to the meetings and make the time to go review the plans, but time runs out
Hey Pampurr...she didn't turn anyone away; she was asking people to volunteer since there are open spots on a number of boards. I heard the radio too. The problem as I see it and its only my opinion, so please respect my opinion, is that people like to complain but not many will step up and volunteer. I understand people are busy, but respect the people who do volunteer.
mrjon "What would happen if everyone around the town that was involved with this project stopped paying taxes. "
Please try that Charlie and tell me how that works out for you.
I think what charlie is trying to say is that some residents are so disgusted with the change they are proposing to our area that they don't feel they should have to pay the same taxes being their surround is being changed to a commercial aspect, something they did not have when they bought their home....... You gotta remember darwin, yes i have only lived in town for 4 years, but a lot of the other people surrounding this site have lived there for many many years, I am talking 30+ years, and charlie happens to be one of them.
I am figuring this from his line after that "I know 4 families who want out around this project. "
I don't think you have really realized how much added traffic this will add to this side of town, looking at this project as a whole. Especially when you add 100 apartments to a light on main street which barley flows during rush hour now. Add people you have to add emergency services, schools, everything will be affected now that there is a housing aspect. It will surely be a big change, and it is expected for people to be upset
I don't think you have really realized how much added traffic this will add to this side of town
Oh i realize it and welcome it. :)
That's interesting, considering you live so close, you will be affected by it as well. But obviously not as much as the surrounding homes. What is your reasoning for welcoming it?
i welcome business growth in our town. Once Charles St gets reopened i can avoid that intersection if it really becomes as bad as you think it will. I don't think it will be as doom and gloom as you think it will, maybe 1 extra cycle at the light to get by. I'm never in that big of a rush that i can't wait at the a traffic light 1 extra cycle.
the traffic I am most concerned about is from the housing component not really the business componentand traffic is not all we be worried about
When is Rice gonna clean that mess of bricks up? AND that dumpster has been there a long time...
" I don't think it will be as doom and gloom as you think it will, "
cvs + 100 apartments is a lot of traffic right there
we still don't know what stores they will be putting in under the apartments so thats a unknown
and then you have the big seperate office building they want in the back, who knows how many cars that will add.
it is not doom and gloom, it is called being concerned, very concerned.
"Finally when Phase 2 and 3 is finished, It will be covered by buildings and blacktop.
Now you really have a water problem the retention ponds will not help.
We should have a phase done and completed and see what happens before the town allows the building of phase 2. Monitor it along with the traffic.
Clean up the building site before even talking about the second phase.
No clean-up no permits."
Charlie
Charlie your words above speak volumes. Why don't you take the time to go read the resolution of approval before you make statements that are incorrect. Also how can you prevent a private property owner from developing their property. That's like saying you can't sell your home you live in until all the homes around you are sold. You put allot of information up on this board that only distorts the facts. You've ran on and on about flooding and despite the fact that increased stormwater control is being built that's still not enough. The facts are Charlie that there is a pre-existing condition which the developer will help improve not degrade at their expense. This is a benefit Charlie at no expense to the town. Also, finally, a eyesore on Main Street gets cleanup and developed and becomes a positive for the Main Street. If you took the time to look at the plans and the design the board made CVS and the developer abide by you would see that this project is a significant improvement for the Main Street.
In regards to Knechel Ford it's been for sale for over two years which tells me developers aren't exactly charging in to Hackettstown to develop things. Perhaps the development of Bergen can lead to something positive on Knechel, however, I have no doubt the naysayers on Bergen will be against that also.
"The facts are Charlie that there is a pre-existing condition which the developer will help improve not degrade at their expense. "
Towne jim, you make it seem that we owe them the world for this, and that we should let them do whatever they want because they are paying to fix the towns problem, you feel that even if they do a little that is enough. The fact of the matter is that the property was BOUGHT with this condition there. As we all know, the property being the low spot has mitigated this flooding issue, now the developer wants to raise the property, thus The developer has to deal with this condition that he bought into, we don't owe him anything for it. He wants to do things to the property that has the chance of making this situation worse, he will be adding a huge load to this side of town, and he gets to walk away with a big check in the end. So I don't see the reason to constantly feel bad for the developer as you do.
The property owners that could be affected by a failure of this system have every right to be concerned over a change this big, we also have every right to feel the need for a second opinion. Once it is done, it is too late.
Here is the agenda for the January 28th meeting, I don't think the bergen tool project is on there?
Town meeting is tonight, as far as I can tell Jade is not on the agenda, I want to ask our town engineer what is going on with the project, I am interested in knowing where we are at the state / DPW level.
I saw in the newspaper demolition of the buildings is to be starting soon, and yesterday they had some sort of planning meeting it seemed.
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/express-times/index.ssf/2014/01/centenary_college_and_hacketts.html
Darrin the article was written Jan. 24, 2014. Its written right under the title. If I was to guess I would think this is from a Town Council meeting. I was not there so I am not sure. Maybe someone on here can verify.
I am not sure that article says anything new is happening versus what has already occurred. Are there actual signs of new activity?
and yesterday they had some sort of planning meeting it seemed.
article was written on 1/24. There was a Town Council meeting on 1/23 where these talks took place. Engineer was updating the Mayor and the Council on the progress of the site.
Don't worry Darrin there was no secret meeting yesterday :)
The last paragraph begins "Sterbenz told council" so definitely not the Planning Board. He does the Town Engineer's report about once a month just to keep Council aware.
"Don't worry Darrin there was no secret meeting yesterday"
Here we go again, correction from darwin, guess you didn't see the front lot of bergen tool full of cars yesterday, or talk to the people at quick check either who said these same people held a meeting for the property over there, thanks for the correction anyways.
I am assuming you miss-took my planning meeting as a town oriented meeting, which would be incorrect, once again darwin.....you are too quick to try to prove me wrong and have failed to first gather all the facts. If you are unsure, just ask, that way this doesn't happen :-)
"and yesterday they had some sort of planning meeting it seemed."
sorry if we interpeted that as you implying something shady was going on.
Why not just say there were people on the site yesterday..
I apologize for not saying this exactly as you would of liked, next time I will ask you first how you want me to say things.
...............no
"or talk to the people at quick check either who said these same people held a meeting for the property over there"
sorry but the way you word it makes it sound like the old men at quick cheq were spying on a secret meeting taking place on the site.
Darrin,
Are you saying the article has nothing to do with what you posted?
"I saw in the newspaper demolition of the buildings is to be starting soon, and yesterday they had some sort of planning meeting it seemed." Darrin
The first sentence is definitely article related because you mentioned it. As I posted it was from a week ago and from Council meeting giving an overview what is going on.(which is what should happen)
Then you went on to say there seemed to be some sort of planning meeting yesterday that you apparently heard from people in Quick Chek.
Not trying to bust your balls here but you are actually wrong in that post. Then you go on to blast Darrin correcting you. The owners are allowed to meet with the Town Engineer and even other members of The Planning Board to gather info and bring back to meetings. The way you implied here is that what they are doing is illegal. Its all in the wording.
Take my advice if you want or not but accusations and implying things are not the way to go. I am sorry about my statement goes a long way rather than your snarky comments.
You guys are way over thinking this and are adding in things I never said
I never meant to put the two statements together, I simply posted an article I read in the newspaper and then made mention that I noticed some sort of property owners or engineers have a meeting at quick check For the bergen property. They are two different statements and have nothing to do with each other
What I was trying to get out with my post was that I think there's going to be some sort of movement with the property relatively soon I was in no way to say anything shady was going on that's you guys putting words in my mouth or taking what I posted the wrong way.
My husband heard from a Cvs source that the grounds were contaminated and Cvs no longer would be building there. Is this true?
I have not heard that, yes the grounds are contaminated, but cvs and the developer had a cleanup plan for the site
I do not think this would be true, as cvs knew going into the that the site had contamination issues, although who knows what the developer let them know. I would think that they have done this before and would of checked that, so for now I would say not true.
Christine there is a Detention Basin to collect runoff from valley view not a retention pond, it is primarily used to hold storm water and slowly disperse it into that stream right behind it, a retention pond serves the same purpose but holds water year round like the ones by Lowes, but they are filled with bass so there will never be a mosquito problem there. Retention pond is much more attractive than a detention basin, and it serves an ecosystem unlike the useless field a detention basin is 95% of the time.
htowner CVS was well aware what was in the soil. There was a presentation at the Planning board meetings that CVS was at that went over everything that was in the soil. So i would say your husband's source is incorrect.
"although who knows what the developer let them know."
come on Darrin you and i were sitting next to each other when they presented what was in the soil. the developer didn't hide anything from the board or CVS. If CVS was going to back out they would have done it after that meeting if that was the first they learned of the soil. I would expect they knew earlier.
Darwin, when cvs first got involved, who knows what the developer told them. My statement stands. The situation you talk of was 2 or more years later when cvs was already balls deep in the project. I tried to get at this point in my first statement. I am sure cvs knew of the contamination, every does. Anything is a possibility and nothing will be a certainty until it is done.
I am sure cvs didn't expect to have to wait on the developer to demolish all the other buildings though.....we all know that surprised them.
Darwin, I get the feeling you are over-analyzing every thing I say just to create a argument. Give it a rest, it's getting tedious to have to re-explain everything I say. If you have a question about how I said something ask, don't always try to prove it wrong, it's much more healthy.
So CVS announced today they will stop selling tobacco products in their stores. Wonder if that changes anyone's opinion of them moving in
THIS IS NOT THE BERGEN TOOL CVS, but the same developer....
http://www.northjersey.com/news/242700011_CVS_application_withdrawn.html
they were working on getting approval for that site since 2011
I think it was harder to get the spot rezoned. Site in Washington was residential harder to go from residential to full commercial. I think CVS knew they were fighting a losing battle and cost their loses.
"Probably bailed out cause they got the Hackettstown one?"
Why would something that happened up in Bergen County affect the outcome here? If they bailed it was because it wasn't going to get approved. Not because they didn't want it.
I see they cleared a bunch of the snow around all the buildings yesterday, demolition should start soon I would think
I also noticed that two of the roofs collapsed under the weight of the snow
Yes Darrin, the building has partially collapsed. They started the demolition on Friday.
A detention pond on top of contaminated water. That's nuts.
CVS, Take over Knechel ford. It has plenty of parking, good drainage and could handle your project without all the expense.
The back of the project was sandstone and no dumping was done there.
I lived her for 59 years and the contamination was behind the buildings.
I know people who dumped it there.
Let's have the project cleaned up and tested and have a public meeting on all areas of the findings. No more permits and put a stop work order on the rest of the job.
The planning BD. Should stand their ground .
If this is a contaminated area, the property should be sealed and the neighbors should put the pressure on the planning BD.
Clean up , Test the area, show the public what they found and than move forward.
I would be for a new CVS in Knechel Ford.
Now with the building caving in they have a problem of a clean-up and soon.
Charlie
Knechel Ford property is for sale at 1.8M and change. They would have to tear down the whole building to put in a new CVS there.
And at 1.8M that's probably 50% more than the current project. Not to mention the testing requested has been done twice already, the remediation already accomplished, results already discussed several times here. Is it a matter of just not being able to accept the conclusions?
I'd like a Sears Hometown-If you look at your webpage you can see it'd do well here and it would be convienient. At the very least I would want to see some new (or returning) stores. I've had enough of CVS and I would be sad if any family-owned pharmacy closed because of it.
Sears Hometown: http://www.searshometownstores.com/
Lngvly22 Sears Hometown was over by Kohls and failed. Why would stores that already can't make it come back?
GC- I remember the Sears over there very well. That was a hardware & appliance, very different from a hometown store which is essentially a franchise. Plus, it would basically have no competition on main street, since there are no brand-name stores over there. And the economy is much better then when the Sears closed in 2009
Unfortunately that is not a possibility charlie. What is done is done and the cvs has gone through 3 years of money spent to move into this site. I doubt they would change now.
The truth to the madder is that stores are better then the original 200 some odd apartments that were proposed. Our town cannot handle added residential. Either way they are going to build something in this spot and we cannot let them over build the spot and lack on what we were promised when it comes to 3 acres of usable open space. One acre of that should not be a retention pond, that's not fair to us.
Public had a huge impression on what got approved and changed for phase one, now we need to keep with it to see that things are done right for the second phase. And even down the road for a third phase like they are proposing. It's their property we can't tell them not to build, but we can tell them what we were promised
on a side note this was all knocked down on Friday nothing was picked up and placed in a dumpster and now the slab which they were saying is contaminated is open to the elements, any time it rains it will now be washed into the supposed non contaminated soil. Let's see how long it takes them to clean this up properly that should give us a pretty good idea on if this cleaned up will be done properly or not
Lngvly22 - The Appliance & Hardware is just a different branding of the same appliances, tools, and lawn & garden. You can also buy franchises with the Hardware name on it. It would compete directly with the Trading Post name brand appliances on Main St, as well as Home Depot and Lowes. It would also compete with Hometown Hardware on the tools, lawn, and garden.
Darrin you sound like my old boss, send in a dozer to knock down the building, then two guys with shovels to clean it all up, then come by three hours later and say "Not done yet?",
eapos eapos, they made it very clear at the meetings the slabs were contaminated, why would they leave them open to the elements?
doesn't have to be water soluble to migrate with water, oil will travel with water and so will other contaminates. they were not very clear as to what, they just said they knew it was contaminated
Darrin I think u need to cut them a break a little it's like you are just looking for things to complain about. There is over a foot of snow on the ground clearly they were not planning on doing the demo at this time. But as you pointed out some of the roofs had caved in by the snow so the sent a team to tear them down. If they hadn't I'm sure you would be complaining on how they are letting 2 half demo'd building go unattended and how dangerous It would be if someone got onto the site. This was an emergency service call and not a scheduled plan.
For the record I did not say it was taking them a long time, I said let's SEE how long it takes, big difference.
The next mayor and council meeting will discuss the changes to stiger street and main street. It is this Thursday, agenda below.
http://www.hackettstown.net/app/download/2445131/2-27-14+Mayor+and+Council+Agenda.docx
They have been dropping buildings like they are using dynamite. Nice to see the developer is holding his side if the deal .
"-Resolution consenting to the filing of an NJDOT street intersection application for
improvements at Main and East Stiger Street intersection by First Hartford Realty Corp"
If I am reading this correctly and if I am not please inform me BUT it is just a vote for filing with NJDOT application for improvements? Will they be hearing from the public on this matter? Just curious.
Christine, I am not sure, I have never been to one of these meetings. I saw resolutions listed before it so I figured they are done with what you mentioned and they are going to talk about the findings?
In the past resolution is a vote from council for a final decision for the DOT change. I am unable to go but that is my take.
I'm not sure what kind of findings would be discussed, the resolution is just to allow Hartford Realty (CVS builders) to apply for a permits from the state for the change that involves Main St. Main St is state road so they have to go to the state for it, and I don't believe they can even apply without the Council's OK. The resolution is that OK.
The public can always comment on anything at all during meetings during the time set aside at the beginning of the meeting. Usually they ask for comments on items other than what is listed in the agenda, because those items will have opportunity to be discussed when the items come up. The usual order is the mayor introduces the item, has the town attorney go over what it means, opens it for public comment, then opens it to council discussion, then calls for a motion followed by a vote.
Just told that this past week CVS was conducting bore tests for the footings for the buildings, that is some real positive news and I can't wait to see the construction get underway. It sure looks like Jade is moving forward on the demolition and the snow helped the process. For all the naysayers this project is going to change the downtown and help Hackettstown enormously and be a shot in the arm for on the community. Let's hope this spurs something on Knechel Ford.
How can you do bore tests for footings in frozen soil? Seems like it would come back inaccurate to me.
For your reading pleasure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geotechnical_investigation
This property clean up is a joke. I wonder how many people have actually taken the time to watch how they are doing the current clean up. It is a mess. A handful of guys walking around in regular clothes. No neon vests or even hardhats. Working within arms reach of giant construction equipment. I'm sure there are safety procedures that should be in place. There is debris and hazardous materials in the street. And I pray that those buildings had no asbestos because it was in no way removed or contained in a safe manner. This demolition company has no regards for the safety of themselves or the people in the surrounding area.
If there is the proper amount of people, you can file a OSHA complaint against them before someone gets hurt!
I haven't necessarily seen any of the clean up being done but it sounds exactly like to clean up being done for the first building removed which I did see
Is their a public advocate or the like, who can be contacted to make sure the demo is being done properly and safely? I am concerned about any asbestos that might exist more than anything as my child among other neighborhood kids walk by the lot after school. I haven't noticed any type of "containment" and I think it makes sense to be sure things are being handled properly and not just taking the contractors word for it.
On another note, an earlier post mentioned that Darrin might have been posting under THE MORP name in the past. That is not the case. Darrin is Darrin, and I am THE MORP. 2 different people with similar opinions and concerns.
Unfortunaty as far as I know, other then our town engineer, any one you call regarding the cleanup is working for the developer.
Maybe give Paul a call and ask the procedures they are taking to contain the asbestos during demolition. Prior reports said they were removing the asbestos prior to demolition, I think at this point we can all agree this was not done. We would of seen covered dumpster being removed, heck we have seen no work at all being done on the site up until now, so safe to say they did not gut out the asbestos as they claimed.
The only thing I can think of is the only buildings they have knocked down up until now are the ones which roofs partially collapsed. Maybe they will start gutting before knocking down the other buildings?
The Mayor mentioned at last Council meeting that there were DEP reps on site supervising the hazardous cleanup. That's probably about the closest to an advocate that is likely to happen. Definitely talk to the town for more info.
I wonder if the Board of Health might be someone to contact. I'm really looking for a third party advocate. I'm not looking to blow a whistle on the contractor, I'm just worried about the safety of our community. If the contractor neglects his existing buildings as he did the main brick building, my guess is he neglects other things that don't matter to him. That is my concern.
I am interested in seeing if the state throws up a red flag when they see the plans to push a large amount of added water through a admitted undersized pipe which cannot handle the current water. And as a backup plan let this water flood back into a larger pipe under east stiger, and if that overfills, guess it will just fill up the lower east stiger and eventually my basement.
What happens if this added back pressure causes the pipe under main street to rupture? I guess we will have a sink hole.
The brook already busts the banks into many peoples yards during our current rain storms. The runoff from the 40+ acres going to the Bergen site doesn't even expel there yet. This is obviously going to create a problem down stream.
I just do not think this is smart engineering at all, it is avoiding a problem that no one wants to take care of and hoping it works in attempts to develop the site. This is going to cause more issues then it is worth and the town really needs to start paying better attention. No studies were done on the affect to the brook at all, at least none that were presented or available for public review. Its not fair to the people downstream who already have issues with this brook for us to add to it so we can mitigate our problem only to create someone else's. This is not the type thing where we should "try it to see what happens" The facts do not line up.
Fine! Well I have in my possession a letter from Day Pitney LLP out of Parsippany, NJ outlining dates of demolition and stating that they will comply with all Federal, State and Local Regulations including any variances. Further more they state safety will be foremost throughout the project. Lastly they disclose names and addresses of all the contractors associated with this.
Pampur do you mind sharing the dates? I really would like to avoid that side of town when it is scheduled. I know they knocked down a couple so far, but when are the rest scheduled? Thanks!
Concerned Mom That time has come and gone I'm afraid. The lawyer's letter I received assures us the environmental safety is at the forefront of their concerns or is that not in accord with other reports that I have read on this forum.
MORP who is responsible for the safety? Who in fact do you want to address your complaints too?
Pampurr, what I have is a concern and not a complaint. I just want to make sure that ALL safety precautions and ALL requirements are being taken care of. And I want to hear it from a third party public advocate, more so than the contractor or town engineer. I just don't want to take their word on it. I'm not versed in this type of field to know if the contractor is doing what is required and I would just feel better if an outside expert is making sure things are done properly.
I would also love to see a copy of the scheduling letter, if you are willing to share it. I'm surprised that the letter is not sent to all the area residents with the scheduling dates. You would think the contractors would want to keep us informed before doing any demolition, especially if they are doing everything properly.
" You would think the contractors would want to keep us informed before doing any demolition, especially if they are doing everything properly."
They kept us very informed in the beginning, but then when everything fell out of schedule they stopped informing us it seems.
Planning Board agenda for March 25th
http://www.hackettstown.net/app/download/2527577/PL03_25_2014agenda.doc
The updated the agenda:
http://www.hackettstown.net/app/download/2630380/PL03_25_2014agenda.doc
On it is First Hartford Realty Corp. (CVS) Conceptual Discussion
Which seems like a conceptual would be for phase 2, but it is listed as CVS......not sure whats going on here, but I would recommend anyone that's interested in this project to attend tomorrow.
Last nights meeting was just one CVS attorney. It was a conceptual meeting to feel out our boards opinion on CVS changing the agreed upon resolutions to allow CVS to start building their structure before the DOT approval comes in. CVS was complaining that the approval is going to majorly delay their project and that they want to start putting up their structure before it comes in, holding the risk that if DOT makes them move the road their building will have to be knocked down. Basically what they want to do is put up the building before making any drainage or east stiger street changes, something that directly goes against what we agreed upon at the prior meetings.
One of the board members questioned them when the permit was filed and when they expected it to come back, and CVS responded.......the permit has not been filed yet.
Again this was only a conceptual, formal notices will have to be sent out to 200 foot radius residents and a formal meeting is to be held next month to allow the public to voice their concerns.
Although this was only a conceptual I was still allowed to voice my concern, and I said we are putting the cart before the horse if we allow this. The major component of this project working is the drainage changes to be done to east stiger street. Without them, the surrounding residents take all this risk if there is a heavy rainfall during this process. Also they would start building before Jade demolishes the remainder of the bergen buildings, yet another thing that goes against what we originally agreed to. The buildings were to be demolished first and that was the only way this project would work without the retention pond as per the drainage studies that were done.
To be honest I am getting really tired of our town giving and giving to this developer and receiving absolutely NOTHING in return.
What design?? for CVS? that was approved back in October, you can see it in the zoning office if you wish, the building is actually not as bad as it could be, definitely different.
That's good. Had seen the original. Just expected that they might make "modifications." You never know.
Amazing that the building department has not figured out jpgs and web posting though. What year is it?
I am sure they have that between them, but the more inconvenient they make it for the public to see, the less public interaction and complaints they have.....so they just do the minimum of what is required with public record.
Hopefully one day it will all be available at our finger tips, that would of certainly helped me through this process, I spent quite a bit of time studying the plans.
Here is the meeting agenda for May 27, 2014. The phase 2 people are on the agenda for completeness, which it is only their first meeting, But if you are interested in the Phase 2 portion of this project I suggest you come. I am sure the new plans for phase 2 are on public record at the construction office if anyone would like to review them.
http://www.hackettstown.net/app/download/3103771/PL05_27_2014agenda.doc
As a local, I truly cannot understand why the people on this forum are fighting development of this site. Currently the site is a run-down & most likely hazardous eveysore for everyone driving thru the town.
Wouldnt anything be better than just leaving it as is?
mom of one Water Runoff due to added impervious coverage, added traffic because of the 100 planned residential units, room in our schools for the added children, just to name some issues.
It is not as simple as clean up the site, and build whatever you want.
We are not fighting development of the site, we are fighting for what, how, and how much.
Some of you would only be happy if the site is turned into a park for the kids to hang out in and provide nothing to the town in the way of tax revenue.
.... and some of us would be happy if they put in a Trader Joe's! (.... ok, ..... I'll return to my cave ........) :-)
Octavarium There is a small park being included sam.....On the other side of the fence if you think you are going to see anything in return, such as a tax break you are crazy. Politicians and other people involved will just get richer, and our taxes will still go up every year.
"Politicians and other people involved will just get richer, and our taxes will still go up every year."
what politicians are you talking about? The Mayor and the Town Council make 3k-5k a year. Hardly getting rich
i meant people politically involved...developer etc. I did not necessarily mean OUR politicians.
Sorry for confusing you, but If i had to explain every single little thing in detail I would end up with posts like mistergoogle!
With all the new apartments going up in Hackettstown will a new school in be in order?
With our schools practically busting at the seams, and current approval for apartments on bilby, as well as pending approvals for more apartments, I would say that would be a good question for the board pampurr
It would be so nice to have a park with a bike/jogging path, a small playground section with a pavillion, benches, small trees for shade, picnic tables. Maybe a horseshoe/bocci/volleyball section. Put a nice fence around it, give it curfew hours. Employ security officer. Have events like movies in the park during summer, rent it for outdoor family parties.
Or put an attractive corporate building there to hopefully attract some bigger companies so we don't have to drive on 80/287 everyday.
Because we really don't need more housing in this town or more retail.
park hopeful But the town already has a nice park with a bike/jogging path, a small playground section with a pavilion, benches, small trees for shade, picnic tables. The town also has an attractive corporate building to attract some bigger companies - empty so no need to build. Plus we don't want to repeat the mistakes of the older 1950's style zoning and allow industrial buildings in the middle of town.
What we need is more of the people fighting to make it right, not stop it. Fighting to get that drainage problem solved at the developer's expense. And fighting to keep the open space that is included in the plan without letting it be the retention pool. That's constructive.
Darrin - She already knows the answers, the subject was discussed ad nauseum on the school threads.
I seriously dont understand why CVS just doesnt move across the street vs all this aggravation. I mean what is keeping them from doing that, how big of a space do they really need? By doing that (moving to the Ford dealership), all CVS headaches would go away, they would have a presence in Hackettstown & now its the developers sole problem (meaning property management, development & maintenance. In short, what is keeping CVS from telling Hackettstown to go jump in a lake?
Also Pampur makes a very serious suggestion that needs to be explored to exhaustion....IE, with all this development, what will happen when we have no place to put kids in schools? These are points of concern.
These are all very good points, the current plan is one large L shaped retail space building with 100 apartments above it. Also there is another 3-4 story building I believe behind that. The retention pit is currently being included in our promised 3 acres open space. Again I will say, I am not fighting the development, I am fighting WHAT they want to put in, and the housing component is certainly on my list of what we do NOT need. As well is the retention pond (completely unusable space to us) being included in the 3 acre park that we were promised.
steve I hate to say it, but CVS is pretty much a done deal at this point, there is really no more fighting it, all we can do is fight how, such as the current, they want to start building before DOT approval, which means they will put up the building before any street or drainage changes are made, very dangerous situation to the surrounding homes in my opinion.
all I can say is come to the may 27th meeting, that will be the first time we hear from the phase 2 developers since two guys showed up in jeans and proposed hand drawn plans for the site 7 months ago, that will be our chance as public to speak up for what we are concerned with.
If you are interested in seeing any of the plans, they should be available in the construction office by now. I was only speaking from memory
You have to wake up. There will not be a park. It (the open space will continue to be private property.)
Look around at the foreclosures and homes for sale. This town is going backward.
How many people can't even enjoy this town without the electric going up along with fuel, gas and taxes.
When will out governing body wake up and help the people of the town.
Now the parking meters on Main St. has a wasted stiff fine in which the state gets the best of the money handed over to them.
How foolish is our governing body.
Charlie
Charlie, are we talking Trenton or are we talking about Hackettstown going backward?
Anyone who has lived here for the years like I have will tell you that Hackettstown is going backward.
The governing fathers of this town always looked after the towns condition, budget,
and the people who live here and most of all the taxes.
Now we are giving money away to the state along rt. 46 (Main St.) Just look at the ticket break down.
The meters for one should be taken out. Attract people here to park and be town friendly for the business area.
How about the 2 bus stops that are discontinued. This too should be opened up.
Last of all , you probably do not know that the town does not own all the parking areas that they collect revenue on.
Hackettstown Auto Parts was one of them and the owner made them take the meters out.
Yes , we are going backwards.
Charlie
Just a reminder phase 2 plans are able to be seen at town hall, and may 27th will be the meeting at 7:30pm. Phase 2 consists of apartments, L shaped stores that will go around CVS, and a office building in the back. Retention pit to be included in 3 acres of open space
Charlie, more to point, Hackettstown is imploding and what is the town council going to do about it more importantly!
happiness, this question would be better suited for the cvs approved forum, this one is for Phase 2 of the project which does not include cvs, this is for the stores, apartments, and office building that is to be put on the site. I think it was even answered on that forum.
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/558447
But to answer your question, if at Tuesdays Meeting the town reviews CVS's changes to the runoff to start building BEFORE dot approval comes in they can start building withing the next month, but do keep in mind, the demolition permit for the site has been open since February and take a look at how much work has gotten done! (the answer is nothing that insurance wouldn't cover after the big snow storm) I am wondering how true CVS will stay to their word that as they are building, the other buildings will be coming down so the impervious ground coverage will remain the same....I honestly doubt it.
A year ago CVS said they were starting building in may last year....still no building, so really it is anybody's guess, CVS is throwing timelines out that they cannot keep, and nobody knows when they will actually start. I am thinking soon since they are so eager to start building without getting dot approval first.
It seems there was reason for concern over the piles I have been asking about, after being uncovered for well over 3 months, Just 1 day after personally tracking down and contacting the site's LSRP, some of the piles have been covered, really makes me wonder the severity of the damage already done of leaving the piles containing contaminants uncovered for this long?
I doubt the "contaminated" pile is much of a concern or it wouldn't have been left unattended for so long. they probably covered it so they wouldn't have to hear you complain anymore. if you have such a huge issue with the site and it's redevelopment you should have done more due diligence prior to purchasing next to an industrial complex that has been around since the early 1900s and moved to an undeveloped isolated area.
"I doubt the "contaminated" pile is much of a concern or it wouldn't have been left unattended for so long"
Do you know this for sure? I sent one email to the LSRP asking why a admittedly contaminated pile was left out, far from complaining, it was covered the next day. Also they only covered select piles, I am sure there is a reason for that....
"if you have such a huge issue with the site and it's redevelopment you should have done more due diligence prior to purchasing next to an industrial complex that has been around since the early 1900s and moved to an undeveloped isolated area."
OR.....they could properly clean up the site, and follow proper procedures.... they should be doing this without having to be asked.
should have, would have, maybe could have, let me know how living in the past is helping you and our town's future
June 24th meeting agenda posted to town website
http://www.hackettstown.net/app/download/3581799/PL06_24_2014agenda.doc
Jade is on it,
9. Case #14-02, Jade Hackettstown Associates, LLC (completeness& PPH)
Ah the mysterious, mythical Jade Hackettstwon LLC, the 3-yr old developer you can't see, touch, or feel.
Who are those masked men?
Ray Rice is at the head of this ship, and they are land developers that are working in projects in a few surrounding towns as well, when and if you can ask around other towns their experiences with this developer, you hear some interesting stuff
If you are talking about the site where the old hackettstown mall was (over my lowes), that has been a ongoing development project, and it is suppose to be 55+ housing last i heard.
Darrin - The old Hackettstown Mall is not by Lowes but Lowes itsel. As well as Chase, Marshall's, Wendy's, and Applebee's. The Lionsgate is a separate property right next door to it. It had been a proposed strip mall that they built a foundation and shell but ran out of money and never completed it. The shell became an eyesore and the town managed to get the shell torn down. But since then, even though Lionsgate has drawn up some sketches and stated plans like you said for 55+, there's been no real move to finalize approval or break ground.
Lionsgate is "leocompanies.com", the property is listed there even if amount of information is pretty thin.
Oh, I stand corrected, thank you
I thought they were approved, as I see them working down there lately, and there is a new foundation up.
Darrin - There may well be a bit of work, I haven't looked in on it for a while. Last I knew what was approved was a very preliminary plan at a high level. The town definitely was in favor of the 55+ idea, but I thought what they submitted wasn't enough to actually break ground.
I am glad all my emails, phone calls with the mayor and town engineer have not gone to waste, It is nice to finally be getting updates on the project on the radio, I don't know if anyone else has heard them. My neighbors keep asking me if I have been talking with the mayor/town engineer because everything she has been saying is stuff I have been asking/talking about. Glad to see our town finally has the project in their sights
Agenda for tonight: looks like phase 2 is on it.
The regular meeting of the Hackettstown Planning Board will be held Tuesday, June 24, 2014 at 7:30 PM in the Municipal Building, 215 Stiger Street, Hackettstown, New Jersey.
AMENDED AGENDA
1. Sunshine Act
2. Roll Call
3. Pledge of Allegiance
4. Approval of minutes – May 27, 2014
5. Resolutions – Case #14-03, Scott Peluso (Submission Waivers)
Case #14-02, Jade Hackettstown Assoc., LLC (Submission Waivers)
6. Case #14-04, LionGate at Musconetcong River Conceptual
7. Case #14-01, S & S Real Estate, LLC (completeness & poss. public hearing)
8. Case #14-03, Scott Peluso (completeness & PPH)
9. Case #14-02, Jade Hackettstown Associates, LLC (completeness& PPH)
10. Old Business
11. New Business
12. Adjournment
Jade is on the agenda again, we will see if they actually show up this time. Last time, according to the board, they failed to notify within the proper time.
The regular meeting of the Hackettstown Planning Board will be held Tuesday, July 22, 2014 at 7:30 PM in the Municipal Building, 215 Stiger Street, Hackettstown, New Jersey.
AGENDA
1. Sunshine Act
2. Roll Call
3. Pledge of Allegiance
4. Approval of minutes – June 24, 2014
5. Resolutions – Case #14-03, Scott Peluso
Case #14-01, S & S Real Estate, LLC (Submission Waivers)
Case #14-01, S & S Real Estate, LLC (Approval Resolution)
6. Case #14-04, LionGate at Musconetcong River Conceptual
(carried to August 26, 2014)
7. Case #14-02, Jade Hackettstown Associates, LLC (completeness& PPH)
8. Old Business
9. New Business
10. Adjournment
Out of curiosity, what does "Sunshine Act" mean above? I know a S.A. having to do with payment to physicians, but what is S.A. at the beginning of a meeting?
Rebecka Rebecka - It's the nick name of an NJ law that meetings need to be open to the public as well as advertised publically. There is specific language that is required to be read at every meeting regarding the law and stating they've complied including where the meeting adverts were done.
I think Sunshine Laws are national, might be at state level but think they have been in every state I lived in.
Just one guy on site today, running excavator, started making a ton of noise right next to the houses at 7:20 this morning. Man this has to be a low dollar cleanup. Most other developers would of had this place cleaned u-p by now.
Looks like they started shipping out some of the rubble that has been sitting on site for over 5 months
Phase 2 is on the agenda again, last month they were canceled for not notifying in time. I am not sure if that is certified letters or notifying publicly such as newspaper etc.
We will see if they show up tomorrow, looks like liongate got moved to august 26th meeting
"I am glad all my emails, phone calls with the mayor and town engineer have not gone to waste, It is nice to finally be getting updates on the project on the radio, I don't know if anyone else has heard them." Darrin you've fallen in love with your commentary, lmao dude.
I will post this here too, as it has to do with phase 2 as well
So here is the updates from tonight's meeting, Jade, did not show up again...
There is issues between the property owner and CVS. CVS is unwilling to sign contract on the front parcel of property until Jade completes the environmental cleanup of the property.
Jade (for phase 2) is currently dealing with a 24 page report from our town engineer regarding necessary changes to their original submission, and thus far they have been unable to complete the changes (the reason they have missed the last two meetings).
Also there was mention that the highlands requirements have not been met and now a certified soil survey must be done on the site.
Everything i posted is as explained by our town engineer, who was nice enough to give us a update even though jade did not show up, I guess they notified the board last minute that they would not be coming.
I am not really sure why work seems to start every month a week prior to the meeting, it's almost like they want it to look like they are doing something before they go to the meeting, but thus far this is the most work I have seen them doing, and it seems like they are finally trucking out the rubble that has been on site for over 5 months, as well as have a separate team pulling tanks from the ground, so it's good. Hopefully the work keeps up, but you never know with this rice guy.
Also I forgot to mention. Being that when and if CVS starts to build they will have the DOT permit in hand, there will be no need for the temporary water holding areas that we spent two months working out, instead CVS will complete the drainage improvements to the surrounding area first, and then build the building, as per dot's and our town engineers direction. I am sure Paul will look out for our best interest and make sure everything is done to keep residents from getting flooded in the process.
"I am not really sure why work seems to start every month a week prior to the meeting, it's almost like they want it to look like they are doing something before they go to the meeting, but thus far this is the most work I have seen them doing, and it seems like they are finally trucking out the rubble that has been on site for over 5 months, as well as have a separate team pulling tanks from the ground, so it's good. Hopefully the work keeps up, but you never know with this rice guy."
Point proven, yet again, just a few days after the town meeting the brakes seem to have been put on the work being done on the site. It's a ghost town again. I think this is more then just a strange pattern. Wonder why the developer feels the need to put on a show right before every town meeting, even if they play hooky to the meeting.
Guaranteed they will be back a week or so before the August town meetings. This has been going on for 3 or more months now. I have noticed it for the last three months for sure. They seem to put on a show so at the meeting the mayor and other town folk can say "I see there is progress on the Bergen tool site" and then they are gone......
At least it seems that they trucked out most of the contaminated piles of rubble. But now a (guessing) contaminated pile of soil (it is covered in plastic while others around it are not) sits in the front of the property in a area known to flood, wonderful. They removed the excavator that was doing the remediation work, but the excavator that was cleaning up the rubble sits unused on the site still.
Why do we let them ? WHY do they (planning board) allow him to getaway with this stuff?. Days before the meeting there is a flurry of activity..then after the meeting ....activity stops..a pattern you say?...it is so transparent a third grader could figure it out.
I don't see them doing much of anything- anytime. A real eye sore and getting worse.
Bernard It doesn't help that they never maintain the property and are letting it get very overgrown. They mow the main street stretch maybe once a month. They never do anything with the east stiger side, i keep mowing that because I dont want the front of my house to look like a dump.
This developer is obviously doing the bare minimum he is required to do, and again this goes to show he doesn't care about our town, his only concern is with the coin in his pocket. We need to be very very careful with what he plans on doing with phase 2, as stated before cvs is even being cautious as he has not fulfilled obligations with them either. If the developer doesn't care about his biggest client, cvs, he certainly doesn't care about much of anything, proper cleanup, saftey, good of our town, etc
Ray Rice reached out to me via email claiming validity issues with some posted comments on this site, I am glad he has been reading it honestly.
Through some emails, the Town Engineer and Mayor became involved on the email train and Mr Rice's tune seemed to change and all the info he added was the same as what has been posted here or discussed during town meetings, to this day I am not really sure of his intent in calling me out, as well as claiming he has been coming to my residence looking to speak with me.
Ray was unwilling to have a formal meeting during the scheduled planning board meeting as our town engineer suggested to allow the meeting to be recorded as well as all members of the public or town officials to ask questions.
I am currently trying to work on setting up a informal meeting as suggested by Mr Rice so the residents can get answers on the current situation of the property, but it has been quite difficult to get straight answers.
One thing I have found for certain though, in my opinion he certainly has a very difficult time remaining professional and respectful in his emails, even when the mayor and town engineer are included.
As it sits today, no work has occurred on site in over two weeks.
Was that Ray Rice's family having a yard sale on the Bergen Tool property on Saturday or another trespasser ;)
Just to be clear, he reached out to me, not vice versa
And john, I saw that too, I have no idea who it was didn't look, didn't care, just noticed people setting up
Hey, who would of guessed, just one week prior to the town meeting work is being done on the site again. More then a pattern for sure!
....Even though the planning board meeting is cancelled this month:
http://www.hackettstown.net/app/download/4240472/pl+cancellation+notice+-+1.doc
There is 4 guys working on the site, They are ripping up the old pad from the front building and tucking it to the rear of the property and dumping it, not even hauling this crap out for some reason.
They are dumping it on the slab where the building they took down used to be, behind the long row
Just wondering, but does old concrete contain asbestos or anything potentially hazardous? Because they are kicking up a bit of dust and nobody is hosing anything down, I would avoid the area today
http://www.concreteconstruction.net/industrial-projects/asbestos-and-old-buildings.aspx
they used to add 2% to 10% asbestos in concrete to keep it from cracking. Considering I am not seeing any rebar in the concrete they are pulling up, I am wondering if this is something to worry about.
"Construction based goods such as cement highly benefited from the inclusion of asbestos. Similar to concrete, cement must be able to survive in nearly 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit and should be built to last for decades. All throughout the early to mid 1900's, asbestos was added to the mixture of cement that was used all throughout America. It wasn't until the later 1970's that the mineral was officially banned."
Here's the list of products: http://www.mesothelioma.com/asbestos-exposure/products/cement/
I see there is work being done on the site, they are digging a huge hole next to the building, and I also noticed the the soil removed is being placed on plastic tarps, which seems to be proper procedure for untested or potentially contaminated soil
Although the safety issue is still apparent, Some people are wearing a hard hat, some people are wearing safety vests, and some are wearing no safety gear. This issue was brought to the attention of the property owner last week.
Also something that was brought up to the property owner was the fact that the safety fence is down in many places, yet nothing has been done to correct it.
Did anyone that lives in the surrounding properties get a notice that they were doing the demolition of the concrete that could possibly contain asbestos?
No notices about that, but according to the property owner the concrete was tested and did not contain any asbestos, regardless it still wasn't nice to have a cloud of concrete dust going into the homes, which was brought to his attention.
We spoke with the property owner after that and we are getting updates now, which I will continue posting as soon as I receive them.
Last update I received today, in reference to the former update I posted
The driller for next week has been rescheduled to Monday afternoon, September 8th instead of the 9th.
Sorry if you missed the first update, I had posted it to the CVS forum since it pertained to work being done for the CVS remediation
Darrin,
Thanks for the updates.
I've noticed an inconsistency of safety issues(workers not wearing hard hats, goggles, and vest) one day this week everyone had them on in the morning and by the end of the day not one person had the hard hats on. another day two out of five people had the gear on.
I also noticed the "fence"(orange plastic netting) down in areas that could invite a common curious trespasser. I guess I would do things a little different if it were my property, especially with all the digging going on.
I was glad to see that the dirt piles are being covered up and glad to be getting updates on the property work dates.
The bottom line is he doesn't care! A cloud of concrete dust in people's homes, how nice of him....what is he doing about it? That is horrible! What do the people on the planning board/town council think of this?
Are they still planning to take the trees down by those toxic mounds on East Stiger Street?. That will make it look uglier than it already is.
Did the property owner provide you with the results of those tests? I doubt it. Like to see the proof there are no toxins in that concrete. No reason to trust a thing they say IMO.
I was just surfing the web and found this site
http://www.vacantnewjersey.com/locations/bergen_machine_and_tool_company/index.html#gallery
has a bunch of photos from inside
Update on work to be completed next week:
Temporary Well Point Install and Ground Water Sampling
With the additional time needed for back filling/compaction, we've pushed out the schedule. The driller and Whitman will be at the site this Monday afternoon around 1:00. The driller is coming from another site, so this start time is approximate but should be pretty close to accurate. We'll be drilling in the area of the former 10,000 gallon tank.
I am not sure everyone knows what a retention pond or detention pond is.
You are talking a bout a retention pond. This holds a certain level of water and is to drain slowly to a set level depending on how much rain or snow we get.
Read up on the difference of the two.
The ponds by Home Depot is designed to catch the over flow and eventually drain off.
Big difference.
The last part of my comment is that this property is private even the open land. It is not land to do with what you want unless it is turned over to the town . That would be a major mistake.
Remember, your ideas are good but who will own the open land, what will be done with it and if a retention pond has to be put in, the town should not accept that property as open land for the public. The town planning bd. should make this clear.
Darrin is right. Don't put the cart before the horse.
Lets see what is recommended by the engineer and when it is time to ,please come to the planning bd. meetings to express your concerns.
I live next to this project. I do not want a mosquito, frog or any other pond in my back yard.
It was rated light industrial and should have stayed that way.
We can't keep business in town as it is so we should all come up with suggestions to help the planning bd. with a better way.
More housing and higher taxes.
Ok look at the tax sales and foreclosures because of taxes who can't pay their taxes.
I am one who have a hard time and many more around me have the same problem
Property value has dropped and the retention pond will not help any of us on Bergen St.
Maybe some of you don't care but I lived her for 60 years and I see the contractors run the town.
How about being at a meeting and the contractors lawyer says if we don't get approval tonight, we are out. What a threat. Let them go and get a contractor in that will help the town.
The Bid isn't doing what they started out to do either. They we to help develop the town but not drive out business. They don't mean to do it but is is another waste of money.
Soon Main St. will be only apartments and low level stores with nothing to draw the attention for.
Just look at the town in itself, stores go out and small shops come in for only a year or two. Why Rent, Inspections, Upgrades to the sidewalks and the property taxes go up.
Yet no good business.
We have one good store with parking hanging in there and it is unknown for how long.
That is the Hometown Hardware. If that leaves we are forced to shop out of Hackettstown.
Everything else comes and goes.
Bergen Tool project is ok if the contractor works with the town.
He is known for not being very truthful to other towns, why should he start now?
Charlie
This is fact not chit chat.
I just got my certified letter today, Phase two plans will be discussed at this months planning board meeting January 27th at 7:30.
The plans include multi-family residential dwelling units, commercial space with related parking, a municipal roadway to connect bergen street and stiger street, construction of storm water management facilities, the installation of a recreational trail, and the subdivision of a portion of the property.
The plans can be seen at the construction office.
I recommend all who are interested in this matter to attend this meeting
No chit chat here Charile. lol Are the schools going to be able to accommodate all the kids? I don't think so.
According to the study they did, IIRC, they weren't expecting the apartment development to generate that much in the way of new kids in the district. Whether or not that eventually turns out to be the case, you can bet that'll be the story they're sticking to until the project is actually built.
yeah, ian, they say a lot, they also said that adding a right hand turn lane and signal and all this traffic from the added stores and apartments, plus bergen street to east stiger will not affect main street any more during rush hour, I will believe that when pigs fly!
They also wanted to allow left hand turns out of the current front entrance, something that quick check doesn't currently allow the other way, accidents anyone? They were clear that if this was not allowed, the rest of their study was squashed, because they said most people would prefer to exit a un-signaled intersection rather then go through the current light, anyone else smelling bs?
I am mainly interested in seeing if they are still trying to include the runoff retention area for the development to the town's promised open space, I bet they are.....
Just got my Notice of Hackettstown Planning Board public meeting... from Lavery, Selvaggi ,Abromitis & Cohen attorneys for Jade Hackettstown Associates LLC regarding the meeting on Jan, 27..seeking preliminary and final major site plan and subdivision approvals to construct mixed use development on the property.
I find it hard to believe that the apartments they are envisioning while not generate kids and traffic. This will not be upscale apartments but second story apartments for folks desiring to live above retail.
Rice said he would pay $250,000K to skirt low income housing, but has he or will he? Otherwise you have 10 of the 99 apartments as low income.
Exactly my point MG, Initial reports said he was willing to pay, but I am not sure if he did or not.
mom of one, Ray has had plenty of time to tear down the buildings and clean up the site, it has been a year and three months since CVS was approved and Ray (Jade associates) was told that for CVS to get the certificate of occupancy he had to remove the remaining buildings, wonder what he is waiting for? seems like a bunch of wasted time where the property could of been getting cleaned up, but instead it looks worse then it did
Darrin,
Exactly. And that's one thing hopefully you can get at the meeting.
The second is, beyond whether 10 units are low income, what type of apartments? Put bluntly: if 3 and 4 bedroom I think one can assume kids, cars or both. Even at two bedroom......
My number 1 concern is that our town does not get ripped on the open space as promised. When 3 acres open space was agreed to, it was agreed that the space be usable. A retention pit or pond is not considered usable space in my book.
It will certainly be an interesting meeting to see what changes were made and what the developer has come up with in all this time
Darrin what do they mean recreational trail? A goat path around a retaining basin?.....HA!! Is that what they are driving at...That is their idea of progress huh. Pretty lame if you ask me.
What about the three acres for a recreation center for our town? Guess we can kiss that good bye too?
Last they showed, yes a path around a runoff area, But I haven't seen the new plans, I am not sure if it changed or not. Do remember, we have never seen formal plans for Phase 2 of this project, So I am not really sure whats to come.
I only recall 3 acres open space being promised. What is this recreation center?
I don't understand how the contractor gets away without notifying the people on Bergen St. No-one here has received any formal letters about January 27th 2015.
This is not the only time this has happened.
We too here on Bergen St. must get a certified letter. It is policy and we here all but up against the Bergen Tool property.
Second of all , how do we approve or talk about phase 2 when phase one isn't completed. Phase 2 should be on hold until all the mess in the back is cleaned. The company should show good faith to the town and people who live here.
Pampurr, you sure can have a lot to say on the forum but what about comments to the planning bd. You have some good points but bring them out in the meeting in January.
Charlie
Charlie, if Bergen street did not get notified the meeting should be postponed and the law office should be forced to re-notify, no exceptions. We should not go on with a meeting when not everyone is in attendance.
Charlie I have spoken at the planning board meeting last year about the very issue you just mentioned ....I did not see you there.
As per the town engineer Paul Sterbenz
There will be no public hearing on the Jade Hackettstown application. The application is not complete. The applicant should not have noticed the public.10 days prior the meeting.
Charlie
LOL typical of Jade! Cart before the horse all the time!
CVS is on the schedule for a extension request
HACKETTSTOWN PLANNING BOARD
215 Stiger Street
Hackettstown, New Jersey 07840
CANCELLATION NOTICE
HACKETTSTOWN PLANNING BOARD
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE THAT the Chairman of the Hackettstown Planning Board, after consulting with the Board Attorney and the Town Engineer, has cancelled the regular meeting scheduled for Tuesday, January 27, 2015 at 7:30 PM.
Any and all matters previously scheduled are carried to the next regular meeting.
The next regular meeting will be held Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at the Municipal Building, 215 Stiger Street, Hackettstown, New Jersey, and will be held at 7:30 PM.
Patricia D. Zotti, Secretary
Typical as it has been, One day prior to the meeting they are doing work on the site to make it look busy i am sure. They are clearing the snow in the front lot with two excavators, they have been doing this for about 3 hours, talk about the wrong tool for the job, a plow could of done it in 15 minutes!
That is weird, especially after all the times you have called them on it. Not like they even picked a decent day to start except for the meeting.
So lame.
rapmuzik It was honestly comical to watch them clearing snow with 2 excavators and the 6 inch high blade by 4 foot wide on the mini excavator. The amount of money they spent to run 2 machines with 2 operators all day they probably could of paid to have a plow put on the pickup sitting in the parking lot!!!!! You guys are probably right, I only noticed them when I got home at 12, I didn't know how long they were working before that.
They also cleared a patch of snow on the corner of East Stiger and First street, while yet again no updates from the property owner I am wondering what work they will be completing?
Also strange snow doesn't seem to be stopping them from work, last year they "couldn't" remove the building rubble because of the snow, well at least that was their excuse, all the metal somehow disappeared!
I received a email update today from Jade:
We moved machines to the site today and I expect that the demolition phase will commence shortly on the remainder of the buildings on site.
FYI, as of now the planning board meeting is canceled until next month
http://www.hackettstown.net/app/download/7457927/pl+cancellation+notice+-+1.doc
Even without the buildings on site the soil at bergen tool cannot keep up with all this rain. The big center "lake" is over three feet deep judging by having looked at it when it was empty.
won't the underground basins to be built under the CVS parking lot along with the retention ponds solve the issue of Bergen tool's water?
I thought the main issue wan't the Bergen water running into Stiger it was that the water running down Main St and Stiger will no longer run onto the Bergen site? So did Stiger St flood earlier this week with all the rain? Did it make its way onto the Bergen site?
It is a combination of both Darwin, I have seen water flowing into the Bergen property from third street at times, and at other times water flowing down main street, sometimes both. As far as I know this did not happen during the past rain, but I did not watch the site the entire rainstorm.
Remember, only the CVs is to be built and no real retention pond will be built yet. The underground basins will only have the CVs parking lot water directed to them. The parking lot is to have poris areas, but if the soil underneath cannot eat the rainwater I am not quite sure what the end result will be.
According to the engineer's report the situation will improve, time will tell. The point of the pictures was to prove that even with the buildings down there still is a water issue
I don't think anyone suggested knocking down the buildings would help the flooding issue. More of a cosmetic reason to finally get rid of them. The underground basins will help with the CVS water.
The request was to dig a temporary retention pond where phase 2 will go and/or a permenant retention pond where phase 3 will go. Both you and I agree the board should have pushed harder for at least 1 of those to happen during the CVS build.
But even without them, if the area of phase 2 floods I don't see it being an issue for Begen st or stiger at as that water will stay on the site and not make it to those streets.
You are correct that one of the reasons was to clean up the property, but if you remember the buildings coming down was the town's response to the developer refusing to put in a retaining pond.
They would not be concerned about converting the foot prints to "turf or other pervious material" (developers agreement) if it was not to better the runoff on site. It was mentioned that the removal of the buildings was to help the flow of water, and the reason for the removal was that they refused to build that retaining pond we all agree is needed. So the solution was removal of the buildings and a possible temporary retaining area if found needed.
This is also why there is a big ruckus about the developer wanting to leave the slabs in place, but the town engineer is worried what that will do the current runoff issue, and the developer, last i check, had not submitted anything showing otherwise.
The way the cvs had shown the new topography of the property, the burden will most definitively be put on the streets. With no storm water improvements for bergen street and a bigger pipe for stiger street. Sounds okay for stiger, as long as the pipe is big enough! But as I brought up at that very meeting, by CVS raising their property the water that currently runs from other areas of the property to the location of cvs will no longer be able to do so, so the underground tanks they plan on installing will only be for their parking lot water.
The reason I brought this up is because it is a similar problem the town had with the apartment development on bilby street. The soil was found to not accept rain water efficiently and I believe to resolve the issue, the developers literally have to dig that dirt out and bring in better dirt, dirt that will actually absorb the water.
When it storms water goes down like a raging river past my house on East Stiger St. pools on Fourth St then continues down the back of the property by the bicycle ramps.
I was unaware of that papurr, that would be a third area of entry, by chance have you ever got any photos of it?
CANCELLATION NOTICE
HACKETTSTOWN PLANNING BOARD
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE THAT the Chairman of the Hackettstown
Planning Board, after consulting with the Board Attorney and the Town
Engineer, has cancelled the regular meeting scheduled for Tuesday,
June 23, 2015 at 7:30 PM.
Any and all matters previously scheduled are carried to the next regular
meeting.
The next regular meeting is scheduled to be held Tuesday, July 28, 2015
at the Municipal Building, 215 Stiger Street, Hackettstown, New Jersey,
and will be held at 7:30 PM.
Patricia D. Zotti, Secretary
I don't even remember the last meeting I was at pampur. They have not discussed phase two YET at a formal meeting, and we were told 45-60 days going on 2 years ago.
I honestly think there has only been two meetings this year, one re-organization meeting and another discussing the BP gas station to become a fullerton bank.
Looks like CVS will be operating the Target pharmacy too..how many flippin pharmacies do we need?.
Say good bye to the mom and pop pharmacies!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/business/dealbook/cvs-agrees-to-buy-targets-pharmacy-business-for-1-9-billion.html?_r=0
Looks like CVS will be operating the Target pharmacy too..how many flippin pharmacies do we need?.
Say good bye to the mom and pop pharmacies!!!
what? Target is considered a mom and pop pharmacy?
And we are not adding anymore pharmacies they are just rebranding the existing Target Pharmacies to CVS pharmacies.
Nor is walmart, but it certainly had no problem running stores off and swallowing other big chain stores alive!
Darrin the flooding continued on Fourth Street this week and flowed down into the Bergen Tool bike ramps, they need regrade Fourth street on the corner of East Stiger Street..what a mess there every storm.
ok, so now the name of this thread is changed to no longer represent what it is? I am so confused.
All the good discussions and the seperation of the two DIFFERENT projects have been taken away, and we must now discuss these two projects on one thread, good luck guys!
Being we are not allowed to have two different threads please make mention if you are talking about the CVS project or the phase two development, this is just silly
Go CVS go!!!! Finally, this end of town looking much better with the old buildings gone and a facelift on the old Ford dealership.
hackettstown townie I have not heard anything about 24 hours pampurr, the agreement was NOT 24 hour due to the closeness the a residential area and how the lights would shine onto the houses.
hackettstown townie, I agree, it is looking much better, hopefully the developer holds his end of the bargin and removes the slabs. Lately there has been no work completed by the demolition team and the slabs still remain and all the demolition vehicles remain parked. The current work seems to be getting done by a new contractor, I would be guessing, but I would say it is someone hired by cvs.
SO, I was doing some research into this whole development regarding the CVS coming in and I hope I just found a BIG MISTAKE on this Developers Map/Drawing....
Until seeing this map (attached) I have been actually happy to know that the property will soon look presentable. According to the map / drawing, the development is going to be able to be built DIRECTLY ON TOP of the street I live on essentially land-locking me and all the other residents there!!
Maybe this map is missing the connection in the corner from Stiger St to Bergen St, but even that would make me drive through a CVS parking lot to get to my street! This is 100% UNACCEPTABLE unless the road connecting is going to be made a public street and maintained as such.
If this project DOES land-lock all the residents here, there is going to be one class-action lawsuit. I promise....
Here is a link to where I found the map/drawing in case it does not upload.
HtownResident Now that the contractors leveled the front area where CVS will be built you can really see just how low that property is in comparison to East Stiger street. This was exactly the point I was trying to make at meetings and on this forum, but no body understood because with the trees and shrubs you really could not get a good look at it. I am hoping that CVS plans on doing some sort of drainage improvement prior to re-grading the area and raising to build the CVS. We were told a temporary retaining pond would be built, but where that was to be built is now fenced off and still has the buildings slabs intact. Part of the wall is still even intact on the back part of the property, there has to be some reason the developer did this, just the slabs okay, but why leave a whole length of wall up about 2 -3 feet high?
Here is the link to the information.
http://www.eagleamericanrealty.com/properties/1177-11.pdf
I really hope this is just a mistake in the drawing and that the street coming around from Stiger will be a public road. If not, there are going to be problems since the town is just allowing about 12 families to be land-locked by the CVS owners being allowed to build ON TOP of Bergen Street.
Darrin can correct me if i am wrong but those are not the plans that we have been shown at the meetings. I have not seen anything about a 2 story parking garage like what's in that link. Plus the link doesn't even show the proper CVS building. It also shows the Bergen Tool building as an existing building which we know is not there anymore.
Obviously, the plan is not to land lock Bergen St residents where they can't get out of their street. Common sense would say there is no way they could/would do that.
Not sure where that plan came from but from day 1 there has been totally different plans at both the BID office and town hall.
Darrin do we know the order of construction once they finally start? Will Stiger St and the underground sewer be completed prior to the CVS building going up? I think that is an important info for us to know. The proper order will help with the storm water, and improper order will only make things worse.
I would hope the widening/repaving/ and wider sewer on Stiger would be the first step of the construction.
You are correct darwin, those are definitely not the approved plans. The approved plans are available at the construction office for CVS.
There is conceptual plans for phase 2 (the other buildings not including CVS) available at the construction office, but they have not even made their way into a public meeting yet, so they could drastically change.
Darwin, you bring up a very, very good question. I was just talking to one of my neighbors this morning about the same question. We too were (hoping) that CVS would be completing the drainage changes first, before changing the topography of the site. I will bat out a quick update email to our town engineer and see what he has to say on the subject, thank you for bringing it up!
HtownResident
those drawings came from the realtor not the developer. Maybe those were their ideas for the site way back when they were listing the property.
Clear the lot... level it and then fix Stiger St before they build CVS. it just makes sense. Plus CVS is not going to get the CO until the site is cleared and the street is completed anyway so they might as well do things in the proper steps.
HtownResident83, The CVS development will not be changing Bergen Street, Phase 2 plans, as of now, will, but even with the plans that they are looking to approve, your new entrance will be down East Stiger, or down 1st street, through the middle of the development and into Bergen Street, that direct Main Street entrance is not scheduled to remain. Is it going to be a public road??? Well I don't know, certainly a good question to bring up, otherwise you will have to drive on essentially private property to get to your homes, something I would not be okay with for sure... and have to depend on a developer to salt and plow your road. If they made it a public road, the developer will have to split his property in half. Very good question to say the least.
I would go to the construction office and ask to see the plans, if you would like I may be able to meet you over there if you need help understanding them, because when you ask to see them they just slap a huge pile of papers in front of you LOL!
Darwin, I have a email out to the town engineer pertaining to what you asked, I will keep you informed if I hear back
Thanks guys,
I kind of figured this was just one of the artist renderings of the property which is nothing like the actual plans, but after seeing something like that, I had to ask because it would seriously impact me as a resident.
I still am not 100% sure about one thing though. Clearly we will have access to our street one way or another (from the current location at 46 or the Stiger St extension); However is the actual plan to bring Stiger Street around to connect to Bergen Street? If so I just want to know that it will look like an actual road and be a public road. Even if it is labeled a public road it could still feel like an extension of the CVS parking lot if not done correctly. The last thing any of the residents on this street want is to feel like we are driving through the rear of a CVS parking lot.
Just for the record, I have actually been a fan of this development so far, but I also know that if it is not done correctly and with the residents surrounding it in mind, it could negatively impact us all greatly.
Well see how your feelings are after phase 2, not sure where you are located but you will probably have a different view. I would highly recommend residents of Bergen street coming to the phase 2 meetings, that part of the development is going to directly affect you, and your way of life.
On a side note, I am getting very tired of hearing this machinery every day all day right outside my window. And this guy certainly is going to blow up this bucket loader any minute, he is beating the ever living s*** out of it!
From the drawning we have seen it will be an actual road that connects Stiger St to Bergen St. It looks like it will run between Phase 2 & 3. But since those phases are no where close to being approved its hard to tell what it will end up looking like. I would suggest going to the meetings if they ever decide to have them again.
Since Stiger St and Bergen St are both public roads I would assume the "connection road"would be public as well.
@Darwin "Since Stiger St and Bergen St are both public roads I would assume the "connection road"would be public as well."
Not true darwin, if Bergen Street was a public road, the development would not be able to do away with it without first purchasing the property from the town, as public roads have to be on public property, correct? I believe the residents that live on that street have been asking for years who owns their road.
Most of Bergen street from 46 is public. Last 4 houses are the only Private area, so they better still give us public access...
HtownResident83
from what we have been shown at the meetings it looks to me that it will be an improvement to the current Bergen St. The stree looks wider and will lead to the traffic light on Stiger/Main which will make turning left easier than the current Bergen St.
as far as it lookingl like an extension of the CVS parking again in my opinion it won't. It will look like a road with 1 or 2 parking lots on either side but it won't look like you are drving thru the middle of a parking lot. But it's hard to say for sure since we haven't seen the plans in months and they are not even close to being approved.
But it has to be better than driving between an old run down brick building and a train track. It's not like Bergen St had the best curb appeal from Main St.
So hold on, if bergen street is a public road, how is the development able to just take that area and convert it to a parking lot for their use and move a public road to wherever they want??
I took another look at the plans to better describe to htown what the current proposed road will look like.
They are looking to extend east stiger street past the big red house (on east stiger). this will then 90 degree turn into the bergen property and go straight across, bordering the first house that is currently on bergen street. You will be driving directly behind what is currently labeled as a residential building. There is two entrances to the "residential building's" parking lot from this new proposed bergen street. Then the road will 90 degree turn back into the current bergen street. So essentially that first home will now be a corner lot.
CVS will use a different entrance and exit that will create a 4 way intersection between east stiger, first street, and this extended east stiger street I mentioned.
Again this is what the CURRENT plans show, nothing has made it to a meeting yet.
So Stiger Street flooded so bad today they closed it down. It seems they put in new storm drains at the end of the road but may of never hooked them up, because they did absolutely NOTHING!!??!!??!!
I see CVS has dug the holes for their under ground retention pits, sure hope they were right about not affecting the ground water, because the one is all of 80 feet from my basement and at about the same depth as my basement.....
I see the giant mound of dirt with a tarp on it in front of your place? Is that from the 80 foot pit they are digging?
What 80 foot pit? To the best I can guess, and judging by location, it seems like they dug the two pits that will become the underground runoff tanks for CVS. I was not home, but I do have recordings of it.
strangerdanger 
Flooded again, This has been brought to the town's attention, wonder how long they are going to wait to do something about it, maybe until it floods the homes?
They didn't put new storm drains in. The basins are clogged because they just redid the storm drains and put a cover over them so debris doesnt get into them for the time being until the road is milled and paved.
townie14 So what did they do? they did not put in new drains, but redid the drains? How can they leave them covered? This is the lowest area and this is the 4th time I know of the road has flooded since they did it and is impassible by cars.
Alot of debris on top of the grates I noticed a few days ago. But this is a device used for Temporary Erosion and sediment control. They repaired the catch basins which is needed to do before they mill and pave a road. Call the njdot to find out more since Its there road/basins
Talked with our town engineer, he already has two calls out to the NJDOT about them.
Secondly, there is no updates on the slabs being removed, the town has not recieved any response from the developer. It is almost as if the developer is trying to ignore having to remove them.
As for Darwin's older question, CVS still has not recieved D.O.T approval, so their current work is only going to proceed so far before they have to stop. Once approval comes in, there will be a pre construction meeting where order will be discussed.
Annother cannceled meeting.....
CANCELLATION NOTICE
HACKETTSTOWN PLANNING BOARD
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE THAT the Chairman of the Hackettstown Planning Board, after consulting with the Board Attorney and the Town Engineer, has cancelled the regular meeting scheduled for Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 7:30 PM.
Any and all matters previously scheduled are carried to the next regular meeting.
The next regular meeting is scheduled to be held Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at the Municipal Building, 215 Stiger Street, Hackettstown, New Jersey, and will be held at 7:30 PM.
Patricia D. Zotti, Secretary
Last week I went by the Municipal Building and I heard........
"Summers here and the time is right for dancing in the street........"
Party on Patty.
Just for the record. The reason the Planning Board meetings have been cancelled is
because there is no application for the board to address.
The applicant for phase II & III has not submitted the necessary paperwork, plans, etc., in a form acceptable to the Town Engineer. When this occurs, then there will be a meeting scheduled.
Thank you
Bill Conforti
Bill Conforti Correct Mr. Conforti, Phase two plans have been out and about for a while now, but the developer and town engineer have not been able to agree on a presentable plan to bring to the table for the board and public to review.
I would like to see the town push for the removal of the slabs as promised, or at least a answer to the remaining slabs before proceeding with any phase two application. Remember, CVS was to build a temporary retaining area in the current location of the slabs until phase two comes about and builds the real retention pit. With the slabs remaining, this will not be possible. Also the remainder of the site needs to be converted to turf as per the CVS resolutions for CVS to get a certificate of occupancy. You cannot legally bury concrete, so these slabs, unless removed, will be holding up CVS as well.
For the past three weeks every time they run the compactor on the property it has been shaking things off the shelves in my house. Not to mention really disturbing my fish tanks.
I wonder if vibrations this rough could do damage to my foundation?
Wakes you up in the morning between 7:30-8 and goes on to 5pm, getting very tired of it honestly.
Looks like CVS is coming now.
http://wrnjradio.com/wrnj-news-department/2015/the-cvs-pharmacy-coming-soon-sign-is-now-up-on-the-old-bergen-tool-property/
ooonoo LOL, thats news? CVS will be coming if they can get D.O.T approval (still hasn't happened) and get the developer to hold up to his end of the deal and remove the slabs so CVS can get a certificate of occupancy (still hasn't happened).
In talking to the town engineer the developers building cvs found the soil to be un-fit for a foundation on the east stiger street side, hence why they were pounding it down, trying to get it to settle. Apparently for three weeks.....I was told that this is not working, and that CVS must now dig out all that soil they spent weeks knocking stuff off my shelves out and replace it with crushed stone.
CANCELLATION NOTICE
HACKETTSTOWN PLANNING BOARD
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE THAT the Chairman of the Hackettstown Planning Board, after consulting with the Board Attorney and the Town Engineer, has cancelled the regular meeting scheduled for Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 7:30 PM.
Any and all matters previously scheduled are carried to the next regular meeting.
The next regular meeting is scheduled to be held Tuesday, September 22, 2015 at the Municipal Building, 215 Stiger Street, Hackettstown, New Jersey, and will be held at 7:30 PM.
I am noticing more and more demolition equipment being removed from the Bergen tool site yet the slabs that were promised to be removed still remain.....
Darrin I think that if you were not watching the details so closely, the developer would be getting away with alot more. Great job Watchdog Darrin!
This is why I sometimes think we were better off with Mom's at home ( I am a working Mom who wishes I could be home, so please don't jump on me when I say this) and old ladies peeking out from behind their curtains to see what's going on. The social pressure keeps people in line.
hktownie You would think before September 22, 2015 someone what be in authority could confirm whether the slabs be leaving or not. Seems kind of simple to me.
Maybe you need Donald Trump to ask them nicely :>)
I sent a few email conversations to both the town engineer and the mayor today. The answer I got is that the town engineer is waiting on a plan for the developer to pulverize the slabs and leave them in place so water can flow through them. I personally do not see how this will help the eyesore factor of the site, and they certainly will not be able to plant the promised turf if that is the case. I made my concern clear and made it clear the building debris should be removed from site to complete a proper site cleanup.
Allowing the developer to pulverize and leave the slabs is a 100% benefit to the developer and leaves the town with a eyesore IMHO, I am not sure why it should even be a consideration.
We had a similar situation by the tear down over by lowes, those slabs still remain to this day.
Why would the Town Engineer even consider looking at the developers plan if the plan was to have them removed?
@ kb2755, plans mean nothing in this town. The original plan was the old building was to be preserved, and no pharmacy next to Skylands Pharmacy. The having been caving into the developer's wishes right from the start. I don't see why anything would change now.
Denis Because the way the resolutions for CVS were written they seem to have a loop hole that anything can change with approval from the town engineer.
So my guess is, that with that loop hole, the town engineer has to at least "look" at alternative plans. Weather he agrees with them or not, that's another story. And that is where making people as well as the mayor aware of what is going on will hopefully get us the right decision.
I have been after them for over 4 months now asking when the slabs will be removed and why the slabs have been left out in the weather. There is obviously hazardous material (cutting oil? machine oil?) soaked into the slabs as you can physically see it as well as smell it. Neighbors of Bergen road have complained to the mayor and town engineer about the smell but nothing has been done. I cannot believe this has been let go this long how it is, especially after taking a walk yesterday and seeing how many oil spots there is on the back half. I would think the slabs would at least need to be covered.
I think u summed it up; they can change anything if they agree. That's the plan.
So unless more town folk weigh in, it's the developer versus the engineer versus Darrin. To me, if there is evil stuff on top, cover. If there's evil stuff within, haul away. If any case, let the water perk and if that requires turf, so be it.
But you need to weigh in folks, either by mail, phone or email.
The problem with that MG is that in NJ it is illegal to bury concrete, thus if the plan is to leave the concrete on site rather then properly disposing of it, it must legally be left in the open, so no turf.....thus most likely being a eye sore.
The whole goal of this project was to properly clean up a environmentally impacted area, and leaving concrete on site is not a cleanup IMHO
Waiting on a email back from the town engineer
Illegal to bury concrete? I didn't know that.
Neither apparently does anyone in Oxford...the concrete slabs that were left after the Furnace demolition in the center of town were covered over with a layer of dirt and grass was planted.
JerryG Sorry, was not clear. I meant cover short term like with a tarp until the final remediation. And never turf over, it's just that a simple removal does not do it either since the ground below will not perk without truf. after being under cement for so long.
Also, I agree that saying we'll wait for the right time has a high probability of looking like Lowes or the defunct partially built mall next door (did that every get hauled away?) Waiting stands a good chance of meaning living with it for a life time.
basement smasement. How about foundations, pools, cesspools, and everything else we have plowed under over the years..... Worse part is that it is New Jersey. As we dig them up to be legal, think of all the bodies we'll find :>(
Big difference guys.....contaminated concrete....
http://www.nj.gov/dep/dshw/resource/guidance/concrete%20demo%201210.pdf
This is of course assuming it is contaminated, but the smell of contamination coming from the site is quite apparent. If you look at the concrete slabs toward the rear of the site, you can see what I assume to be oil spots soaked in.
Hi Darrin. As someone who loves Hackettstown, thank you for staying on top of this. I was so saddened when they tore the old brick building down - then disposed of the historic signs - both of them!
As I read this thread, it is apparent to me that the big bucks developer has the upper hand - and no interest in Hackettstown - except for profit.
I am disappointed that the Mayor has not stepped in more.
I wonder - What if the DEP was contacted. You seem very well informed on acceptable and unacceptable practices. Winter will be here soon - these matters should be more aggressively addressed before then.
Let me know if I can help.
MAN Thank you MAN,
I have sent a email to the site's LSRP pertaining this matter as recommended by the town engineer.
If the answer is simply that the concrete is not contaminated, I want to see proof, the reports showing the concrete was tested, and I want to know what the smell is, as well as the oil spots are that you can physically see.
If the answer is that it is contaminated, I want to know why the site LSRP allowed it to be exposed to the weather for so long.....far from proper practice.
The LSRP is suppose to be in charge of the environmental cleanup.
I have contacted the site's LSRP pertaining to the matter.
From his reply I assume the developer is working on removing the contaminated areas and the rest is to be crushed up and left.
I questioned about why the contamination has been left out and such, but did not receive an answer.
Something sounds off to me so I asked if there is any way the public can review the test results on the concrete and was flat out told no, not until the project is complete.
While I'm not a regular poster; I am involved and kind of in the know on this project. I can tell you that the Town, Mayor and the Engineer have been involved more than you think. While they don't post on HL; they are doing the job that needs to be done for the best interest of the Town. Of course, the State has been involved as well. A lot of what is posted here isn't always accurate; not because of malice; just not knowing all the facts. I won't post again, just know that this is being handled properly.
knowit @ knowit, I am yet to see how any of what has gone on with this project has been the best interest of the town. With all do respect, what you said was pathetic and couldn't be further from the truth. Trust the developer? The same developer that left containers full of contaminated debris half covered for months? That's best interest of the town?
I do not see how leaving any building materials on site is to the best interest of the town. Be it concrete or crushed brick.....that is 100% developer benefit, and now we, the town, are currently stuck with the eye sore of piles of crushed brick with no anticipated schedule of cleanup
Let's see: 1) Eyesore gone from Main Street 2) Contamination being cleanup, benefits town and most importantly adjoining property owners 3) Property taxes being paid and and larger amount 4) National drug chain building on Main Street, need I continue Despite all Darrin's predictions and "chicken littleisms" the residents and the town will have a huge benefit from this property being developed.
Speculation without facts is just that speculation. Darrin is entitled to protest as he has since day one, however, in the end this is about "ALL" the residents of Hackettstown and not just one. I'm happy with what I see so far and a property with a derelict building complex versus what I see today as many other residents due is much more preferrable.ble
Towniejim, first off all that you listed in your example is also a benefit to the profit the developer will be making. The things I have been listing are CHANGES to the AGREED plan, so in my field of work that would be considered a change order.....something that if you are going to change the original plan we agreed on, we want to be paid for the change (in my work), or in this case I want to make sure the changes that are being allowed benefit everyone, not just the developer.
There is no protest here, i want this project done properly, my protest comes when I see changes being made which can potentially hurt the town but 100% benefit the developer, such as leaving broken up concrete on the site.
I am far from speculating, I take all my questions to the appropriate people and even post their replies to this very site, so say as you want, as you have always said, but it is not true. I have been in contact with the Mayor the town engineer and the site LSRP regarding these slabs.
MAN,
LSRP stands for Licensed Site Remediation Professionals and there is usually one in NJ assigned to each environmental cleanup site. The one for this site is Todd Gerber
http://www.whitmanco.com/files/resumes/updated%20resumes%20Dec%202009/Todd%20Gerber.pdf
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/todd-gerber/33/936/284
if you would like his contact info, I have it, it is also listed on the front entrance of the fence.
Current phase 2 plan shows east stiger (main street side) being lengthened but not connected. it will them make a 90 degree turn into the property and go straight across and then make another 90 degree turn onto bergen street right by the houses.
This plan can certainly change though, as nothing is final about it at all, and it has not even seen a planning board meeting yet.
Darrin of course the developer is making profit, why else would they do it. We do live a country that recognizes the right to make profit. The slabs are there today just as they were 10 years ago, I;m unclear what your point is. It's obvious that if the property is developed the slabs need to be removed for the new buildings.
Rather than always looking for the negative how about some positive comments once in awhile.
I can't wait till this thread dies.We get it,you bought a house across from a commercial zone- now deal with it already.
Towniejim, of course the developer is making a profit, but don;t make it sound like the town is the only ones benefiting. There has been plenty of positive comments, read back through, you just choose to dwell on the negative comments because since day one you only want good things said about the project.
Public has the right to be concerned about changes to what we agreed on during public meetings between the public, the town, and the developer. These are things that normally go on behind closed doors, there is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning who is benefiting from the changes.
I keep saying what my point is, if you have not got it by now, it is certainly not because I have been unclear, it is because you simply do not want to understand it.
But to sum it up:
Original agreement was the site to be cleaned up and demolition remiains to be disposed of OFF SITE.....exceptions are up to our town engineer, as I have stated, the town engineer is waiting on plans from the developer to show the slabs broken up and left in place. Please tell me how leaving the slabs in place rather then properly disposing of them benefits the town?
It doesn't....we are just left with demolition remains that should of been removed....it does thought 100% benefit the developer, who now saves the money of having to pay to properly dispose of the concrete
Hopefully this watered down version helps you understand what I am trying to say. If you look at the overall project it is great, but corners that could come back to haunt us in the future should not be cut for a great "looking" development, it's what lies underneath that matters.
A poorly build house may look good from the outside, but the future will be full of problems. And in this case, the problems are going to be on the residents because if you think you will get them to go back and fix something, think again!
Hi Darriin - MAN again!
As I re-read this, a few questions come to mind:
I notice the past two meetings have been postponed - is there a limit to how many times they can delay hearings on the site progress?
How about these slabs? Any time constraints? What I am thinking is as we get into fall and winter, snow on the debris, then it melting - if there is contamination, how can they just come in, excavate and then leave this mess - especially in an area that has drainage - above and underground - issues?
This LSRP - is he any good? Or is he being compensated by the developer?
Oh yes - Darrin? What about the 3 acres of open space that is mentioned earlier in this?
Sorry Darrin - me again!
This guy Todd Gerber - he's the president of the environmental agency hired by the developer. What independent agency is supervising this project? How can they keep changing the initial plans? What is the town's recourse if things are done incorrectly?
I share your feelings - if this project is not closely monitored, down the road when people have contaminated water, flooding problems, etc. - then what?
I hope to meet you at the Sept 22nd meeting.
What are they planning to do with the bicycle jumps and mounds in the back of the property? Isn't that where they buried all that toxic crap from years gone by.
Darrin we have all been looking at a eyesore for over 12 years, it's now gone which I think is a benefit to the Main Street. The demolition was only completed in July it's now August and your complaining about piles and slabs. It took 12 years for this building to come down from when Bergen Tool left. How about some patience. I get your point on the slab but at the same time I will take a guess and would imagine the material on site can be used in the project. Don't know but that makes the most sense to me. So if it could why would you haul it off?
How about some positive comments. 97% of your post are complaining and negative. This is being done right, endless speculation, etc. I understand you live next to the project but even you would recognize that your home value is better once the site is cleaned up environmentally and the new building built. It help the Main Street, the value of your house and other adjoining neighbors.
Even though you may not recognize you ultimately will be one of the biggest beneficiaries of this project so may lighten up a bit.
MAN,
The meetings have only been postponed because there is no new plans or applicants to discuss. The planning board meetings are not a update on the project, although they usually do give a update at the end of the meeting.
The only time constrain is within the time they have a demolition permit, or if CVs goes to get a CO and the site is not considered fully cleaned up.
I too noticed the LSRP is the president of the company the developer hired to clean up the property, I am unaware of any wrong doing, but it certainly seems to be good grounds for what you are leading on to.
The three acres is still to be put in, but initial plans show the developers retention pond being considered open usable space.
There is no independent agency that I know of supervising the project.
Towniejim, I get it, you are put the blinders on, trust everything you hear and get it done type guy, but guess what, I am not...i ask questions, go to meetings, do my own research, give it a break, I will do what I do, you will do what you do, but stop constantly trying to bat me down just because you do not like what I do. I am very involved in this project, and it will remain that way, with your negative comments or not.
The only complaints I have had are when I see things being done that I know are not right, such as contamination not being covered...etc, which me living next to it is even more reason for me to be concerned about stuff like that. You have no idea how much simply post things on this forum gets done, you would be surprised who reads this.
Darrin, an LSRP is much like a PE (and often is both) in that he is a consultant that the developer has to hire to oversee the site remediation and certify that it is done in accordance with the current regulations.
The NJDEP is the regulatory government agency that has the final say and will ultimately issue an NFA (No Further Action Required) letter deeming the site to be remediated.
I have very little good to say of the developer, but Whitman is a superior outfit. It is actually very surprising to me.
PenwellRd pampur, sorry I missed you question. Actually the sand mounds are the least concerning on site. All those mounds are are the old casting sand they used when operational, and they would dispose of it out back. The biggest detection found in those mounds was suspected to be from motor bikes running over them.
Good info ianimal, I did not realize it was normal practice to hire a company to be the manager of the site cleanup, and the owner of that company to be the assigned LSRP. It seemed strange to me to be completely honest. And really anymore from what I learned, all falls back on the LSRP, even the NJDEP just listens to the LSRP's profesional opinion (from what I was told by the NJDEP).
Hello Darrin,
You have worked very hard for the people in the Bergen Tool side area.
You have been on top of every issue.
Is there a deadline on when the debris will be cleaned up? How long is the demolition permit good for?
We should hear more from the construction official and mayor on the project.
You know we are loosing Marshals and that will leave us more open space for retail.
What do you think is the reason why we are not attracting more business.
Is the BID doing their job?
It doesn't look like it.
What does the EPA know about this project?
I want to thank you along with the neighbors here on Bergen ST. for doing such fine
work and keeping us posted.
It is more than the town officials are doing.
Charlie
Think LSRP/PE one of those positions requirring professional certification and if you screw up u basically toss your career anywhere in the US. So njdep relies on powers that responsible for certification to police and protect them.
Sidenote: listen up kiddees. I have been saying for years, certifications the new union for proessionals. Limited access, wage security, etc. all somewhat established and protected by certification organization. Smart move for youngsyers looking for good career path with greater stability.
Charlie - Marshalls is just moving down the road a bit Meanwhile we are gaining CVS, Dollar General, Man Skirt and possibly a second brewery. Not attracting business? That's a far better track record than other local towns.
Darrin - You are correct about the testing of that sand, only trace motor oil. All of us here went over that when some of the old environmental testing report was found. But at the same time that totally debunks the lie about it being casting sand. If it was casting sand there would be all kinds of heavy metals, particularly high in chromium, that would have been found. The whole dumping of sand is like one of those Internet phone games - first someone wants Trader Joes, then someone says the town got a proposal for Longhorn, and before you know it Olive Garden is positively confirmed. Someone who worked there and saw the fields being built said there were dump trucks of outside sand that was brought in. Totally debunked, go back and read the conversation at the time.
SD, just for your edification, PEs and LSRPs are subject to 'licensure", not "certification"... there's a difference.
Licensing is a mandatory credentialing process established by a state government board. Certification is a voluntary credentialing process by a non-governmental, private professional association.
Hi Darrin!
I second Charlie's questions:
Is there a deadline on when the debris will be cleaned up?
How long is the demolition permit good for?
GC, i could of sworn i read in the initial brownfield investigation it was casting sand but being outside has deluted the majority of heavy metals over time.
MAN and charlie, the permit is just like a home permit, you can get extensions as needed, etc. The main deadline will be CVS trying to get a certificate of occupency. But i did email the construction office to find out when their current permit expires, i do believe they had to get a extension already. I know for a fact cvs did.
The response i recieved from construction:
"All permits are good for at least 12 months. If a project is ongoing, extensions are granted"
Remeber too, the woods area that is to become a park still needs to be remediated. That is the area the developer was asking to fence off and not remediate to save the trees and claimed otherwise he had to cut all the trees down. But i do not think that is part of the cvs co obligation, i believe that cleanup is during phase 2.
Darrin - That assessment came from you back in May 2013, not the report. You said that's what you thought happened here:
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/450140#t521174
But that can't be right based on the report. (which is what I said back then) The testing isn't just the sand itself but the soil underneath. They went several feet down to check and it was all clear. No heavy metals, so not casting sand.
Here is the report you are talking about GC, you posted it in 2013......
http://www.peer.org/assets/docs/nj/07_05_07_bergen_sand_finding.pdf
In which it says........
"The previous operator (American Saw Mill Machinery Company) reportedly deposited foundry sand and slag from cast iron operations in piles along the northeastern property boundaries (Figure 2). The area is currently wooded; motorbike trails are present throughout the area. Sampling was conducted to determine the quality of the piles"
So no, it was not me making that assessment, it was from the report.
But you are correct, the report does conclude the piles are not casting sand.
Darrin - Fair enough. I was actually referring to when you said it leeched out as opposed to it being casting sand. But that's splitting hairs, the conclusion is the same - no matter what was the townie myth, a myth is all it ever was.
Doesn't really matter anyways, the piles are still slightly above allowable levels and need to be removed. If this was caused by bergen tool or by motor bikes is a mute point, a cleanup is a cleanup.
Motor Bikes? My son rode his bicycle over those jumps years ago we never saw motor bikes....show me some proof there were motor bikes on those piles and those toxins were cause by motorcycles. Would have to have been a motocross track back there!!..??!!!!!?? Pictures anyone?? What kid of BS is this!!
I know some people rode there many years ago when the ball field was still actively used. Heard them myself while watching games.
justintime Proof not hearsay..my son played there for years on that ball field and so did my husband. He has been in Hackettstown for 60 years..I would like to see the proof myself of where they came up with Motor Bikes..being the blame for those toxins in the soil..Simply amazing..and no other studies done either..
Sorry pampurr, I think you'll have to petition the government to get satellite images of the area if you want proof that some people actually rode vehicles with combustion engines on the site...
Pampurr, somewhere in the background reading I swear I saw dirt bikes, oil spill, but not requiring remediation. Sort of like my driveway....:>) Think it comes from DEP, the famed Wolfe letter or both: http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/450140
Meanwhile: I think Darrin is spot on for 99% of this and is right in questioning and hold folks to their commitments while following the process.
These developers make a fair buck, they should at least conform to rules and regulations and should be held accountable to the plan they established. Sure, the process allows for changes, but Darrin is in his rights to present facts arguing any changes too.
When all is said any done, the developer will be gone and we will live with the result. Matter of fact in the case of this developer, I think you would be lucky to even discover who they really are beyond nameless investors operating behind a shell company with one visible spokesperson. They have no track record, no legacy, they are already invisible.
SD "When all is said any done, the developer will be gone and we will live with the result "
+10000 My point exactly.
After they leave, if any problems are left or created, it will be the town's problems.
The town should require a bond to be posted and held during the construction phases and for a fixed period after completion if possible.
Steven Bonds are fine Steven, and probably exist to some level, but much of what Darrin is talking about are changing plans which would change the bond coverage too.
Plus, even if you have a bond, it's like holding back money on that deck you just got that stinks. You held back the money but the deck still stinks and now you have to go through the pain of hiring someone else to fix it and hopefully the hold back will cover.
Better to avoid the pain in the first place.
SD explained it best, there are bonds in place, but as an example lets say they break up the existing slabs and build a building on top of it, and then a year later our groundwater contamination spikes, that bond is most certainly not going to cover knocking the building down and removing the concrete under it, hence my point better remove the concrete now then to be sorry later when nothing can be done.
towniejim-you stated: "The slabs are there today just as they were 10 years ago, I;m unclear what your point is. It's obvious that if the property is developed the slabs need to be removed for the new buildings."
The problem is that the slabs are not there just as they were 10 years ago. There is no longer a roof over the slabs and some of the slab area has been broken up to allow rain runoff to seep into the ground. The slabs have been exposed to the outside elements for the last few months. I have taken some photos and I think you can see where the concrete slabs are stained with something that I would consider cutting oils or machining oils. I can't see how that exposure is good for the environment. Plus who knows what has been spilled on the concrete floors over the many years that it was a working factory.
I think it makes sense to have the cleanup done to completion. Why take the chance on burying any of the old concrete and having a problem down the road? The buildings are down 90% of the way, just complete the job.
You can see the dark spots throughout the slabs. Plus there is a smell of industrial oil in certain areas.
This area use to have runoff rain pool up in it. It looks as though the concrete is broken to open ground for the runoff to now seep into the ground.
The Morp the buildings were in such a state of decay roof section had already collapsed. Obviously, the rain was coming through and falling on the slabs. The slabs have been there this long and and if I understand right the developer is asking to leave them there but break it then someone presumable tested the slabs already, right?
How about some patience instead of doom and gloom and presuming the worst and look forward to a redeveloped property. The Main St is already looking better with the derelict building gone and the renovation at the old Ford Dealer.
Are you comparing a supposed leaky roof to a completely exposed slab townie jim?
Pretty obvious they are two totally different situations
Seems they started building the foundation, picture attached.
Wonder how far they will be allowed to go before they make the drainage improvements
can always request an additional or an increase in any bond if warranted due to circumstances changing......I am not sure, but it just seems logical..
towniejim, I want to make sure that the property is not going to be any more polluted than it is already. Almost two months of exposed slabs with oil stains and odors doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling especially with an area of the slabs broken up to expose the ground to receive rain runoff. I'm not sure why you wouldn't just finish the cleanup that was started. I don't know if the slabs have been fully tested but I hope that they are. I want to keep our town safe and make sure we get what makes sense for the town not just the developer. And with this developer, I can tell you that I definitely don't presume the best of things from him. This is not about Doom and Gloom, as far as I'm concerned. It's about doing what is right to the whole of the town and following the rules and regulations to keep our neighborhood safe.
Hey Darrin - As this developer has demonstrated unreliability - What if he continues with the foundation and doesn't deal with the drainage issues - until a problem arises?
Who's watching? Who's accountable? What would it take to have a "time out" if it appears construction is proceeding without addressing those issues?
MAN,
Actually the developer you speak of is not who is currently building. CVS is currently building with their own contractors. The developer you speak of is in charge of the phase 2 property which includes the site cleanup.
But, I just sent this very question about construction continuing without drainage improvements to our town engineer, he is what I wrote:
"While on this topic, I know you and I had talked about CVS still not having their DOT approval last month, and I know they were suppose to have it sometime last month, did this ever happen?
The reason I ask is I see more and more work being done, now they seem to be putting in the footings, along with major grading changes to the site, all meanwhile while no drainage improvements have been made to the surrounding area and the slabs still remain.
I know we had a planning board meeting where there was agreed plans as to what would be done if CVS was to start building prior to DOT approval, but then they were tossed because they figured they would have approval in time. Well now it seems they still may not have approval and the plans we agreed on at the planning board meeting are not being followed?
How far will they be allowed to go before they need to make drainage improvements, as right now, especially with the possibility of a tropical storm coming our way, they are endangering the residents of excess flooding in my opinion."
I will update here when I receive an answer
One of the NJDOT Major Access Permit application requirements is filing a copy of the plans with the Town Clerk. I would start there...
Hey there Darrin - great letter. Anxious to hear the response.
I'm confused. CVS is building now. Another developer is responsible for site cleanup.?
Isn't some of the contamination at issue going to be covered/inaccessible after building is complete? Or is drainage the only issue with the CVS builder?
Also: Who is responsible if we get a big storm now, and there is flooding, damage, and groundwater contamination? Simply asked - yes or no - are the present activities in compliance with preventative measures required, and if the answer is no, and the town is vulnerable, who enforces those measures - NOW? :-)
MAN,
Here is the response(s)
"First Hartford Realty is able to construct a limited amount of improvements on their property, including the building, until such time as the NJDOT approvals are procured per the approvals granted by the Planning Board. The developer’s contractor has inquired about performing additional work and I have said no every time. "
To which I replied
"What is the hold up with DOT? Is there plan changes being made? I ask because first hartford apparently filed months ago and seemed very confident that they would have the permit in a few months, and now this has gone on for quite some time."
and got the response
"Several permits are required including a Major Access Permit for the new Main Street driveway. The NJDOT looked at the application closely and requested a number of plan revisions during the review. The permits are on the verge of being issued."
To answer your other questions
CVS purchased and sub-divided their 3 acres(I believe) from the developer who originally purchased the whole site (Ray Rice, Jade Hackettstown associates) Jade is responsible for the site cleanup.
I would think that the parcel CVS is building on was already cleaned up and signed off before CVS started building on it.
Currently the issue is CVS is building without DOT approval, which they are allowed to to, it is their risk if DOT was to fall through. To put this simply they cannot make any street improvements yet, which include a much larger and improved drainage system.
Currently, yes, IMO, I would say what is going on is putting the surrounding residents at risk. They significantly have changed the topography of the property and have effectively made no working drainage improvements as of yet, they also have not removed the slabs. Currently the property is at it's worse case scenario if we were to get a big storm. Only saving grace is the majority of fill they have used has been gravel. Luckily there has not been much rain at all, but my camera is ready.
How can we find out if the parcel CVS is building on has indeed been cleaned up and signed off? ....Signed off by who? DOT? Hackettstown?
Darrin, if I understand correctly:
The removal of the building, and exposure of these contaminated slabs, as well as other work on the site without preventative drainage installations, has created the risk of an environmental disaster in the event of a storm.
The "risk" CVS is taking is potential fines, and interference with work proceeding if their permits "fall through".
But as it stands now, the residents are exposed to an inestimable risk of flood damage and ground water contamination.
Right?
MAN your making statements that have no basis in fact. I haven't seen any information posted here that the slabs are contaminated one way or another. Secondly, the site was contaminated prior to any work being started so any time flooding occurred if I follow your logic it would and to use your words "an inestimable risk of flood damage and ground water contamination." I don't agree with your statement because like you I don't know all the facts about the environmental condition on the property before the cleanup and now.
The worst thing about this site is people literally can post anything without having any backup and make statements that others will assume have some type of basis when they don't. I would suggest you read through some of the many posts made and get a better understanding of things.
MAN,
The site LSRP would be able to answer that question, but to me, it is common sense that CVS would not start building on a still contaminated area (I would hope)
And yes, putting 2 and 2 together, we still basically have the same coverage as having the old buildings on site, because the slabs still remain. They used to be covered by roofs, but are now open to the weather. And now CVS is adding to the site's problem by raising the topography of their site without performing any of the drainage improvements to East Stiger that were necessary for this site to work. After the flood survey was done on the site it was found that a bigger then planned pipe was needed on east stiger, as well as multiple spots of porous pavement was added to the CVS parking lot.
Towniejim, It is fact that the slabs "were" contaminated because I have received that fact from the site LSRP. According to the site LSRP areas of known contamination have been removed and are covered under plastic still on site.
The LSRP stated that the contaminated areas have been removed and covered and that smell does not indicate contamination (I do not necessarily believe that one considering how strong the smell is) but... I could not get a answer from him why you can visibly see what appear to be oil spots.
I am not 100% sure how they test for contamination, but it seems on this site they are using monitoring wells. I am just now trying to figure out how often they check these wells and how the procedure works. For instance I am wondering, do they check what the current contamination is in the wells before removing anything, then remove some areas of known contamination, then wait again to see if levels drop in the wells? If levels drop to acceptable level maybe they are not really required to remove all the contamination? Like I said, I have been working on figuring out how this system works because I am not 100% educated in test wells.
There is two problems with your statement "Secondly, the site was contaminated prior to any work being started so any time flooding occurred if I follow your logic it would and to use your words "an inestimable risk of flood damage and ground water contamination."
And that is A. The site's elevation has now been raised to the point where water used to sit and seep into the ground, it no longer can. And B. There is no longer buildings covering the potentially contaminated areas. But based on what i am seeing it seems it is normal practice to allow the contamination to get into the ground water, and that is how you check your contamination levels?
Also, as I have stated numerous times this is a forum, it is a place for anyone to ask questions, and sometimes you must make assumptions to get to questions. But there is nobody on here stating that these assumptions are fact like you keep leading on.
I'd be truly surprised if there were monitoring wells. I would think soil samples would be it, unless there had been significant sources of contamination found.
Regarding oils and whatnot, keep in mind that the parking lot of any major store probably collects more oil in a year than what is seeping from these slabs uncovered for a few months. Should every large parking lot be treated as a hazardous materials site requiring remediation?
FYI, I always read your updates Darrin, so thanks again for keeping tabs on this project.
Ok - it is a forum for discussion - so as Darrin responded to Towniejim, I'd like to respond to jusintime.
A commercial parking lot has to be built with designs for drainage, permits and approvals, just as Bergen site is now undergoing. Water running off a parking lot will most definitely have oil, and other contaminants in it, as it runs into adjacent sewers. Additionally, the ground beneath a completed parking lot, as well as the materials of its surface, are selected for their variable permeability.
The reason these oil soaked slabs are not comparable, is, as Darrin pointed out, because they had not been previously exposed to the elements, the surrounding topography has been altered, and no new drainage remediation has been made.
MAN, so that get's us to a point where relative measurements of contaminants are needed. Oil on my driveway makes it clearly contaminated, but at what levels? Likewise with the concrete slabs. They are clearly contaminated but at what levels? We really shouldn't get excited over one and not the other without knowing the quantity of contaminant and their effect on the environment. No one person here likely thinks twice about the level of danger posed by oil stains in the ShopRite parking lot. IMO we need to know the LEVELS of contaminates, not just that they exist.
I wholeheartedly agree. Everyone who posts here fundamentally is concerned that this project is an improvement for the town.
It does appear as you read the history, that the only vigilance regarding safeguards, is coming from people like Darrin, who continually watch what is happening, in contrast to what is promised.
I'd like to believe that our elected officials will oversee this project and ensure proper safeguards are implemented - not just apologize if there is a problem that impacts homeowners.
justintime,
The LSRP stated to me "water is actively being monitored through well points and monitoring wells. If any impact to ground water is identified, it will be addressed."
What do well points have to do with anything on Steiger street? Does the town water come from there? I thought that the runoff from storm sewers went to creeks or into the sewage system.
Yes and no.
A certain amount of contaminated run-off can be absorbed. The longer you detain it, the more it will filter. Greater amounts will pollute our streams but will be quickly wash downstream and diluted. In combination with existing stains, the amounts and problem grows.
Actually I think we all should be cognizant of the pollution level at our Shoprite parking lots, our roads, and every other development. If you get enough Shoprite's, then every time it rains, the Musky becomes unusable at least until it flushes downstream.
Up on the Great Lakes, the town of Erie road water runs free and does not have detention basins. It hits the top of their seven mile beach right after each storm. On the first downpour after a dry spell, Even though the water supply is a Great Lake, Beach 1 through 3 are always closed. Not good for the tourist economy to close those beaches and that's a real problem for the town.
Same issue on the Jersey Shore where they are pretty darn careful about their Shoprite's and cement slabs I bet.
Everyone's for a clean environment, however, as strangerdanger pointed out there are plenty of other things to be concerned about than Bergen. This is a site with a supervised cleanup underway by a Licensed Site Remediation Professional on-site. I Googled the LSRP program in NJ, www.nj.gov/dep/srp, no engineer licensed under this program would risk there license, they are out of business.
Despite all the statements forecasting the worst I will presume this is someone who values his profession and his lively hood and is doing the correct thing.
Towniejim, not saying it is what is going on at all, but you should never be one to rule that out, close the blinds, and say all is well. Many, many people have lost much more important things over much stupider reasons.
Once people stop watching and caring is when "rules" go out the window. There is nothing wrong with public concern.
IMHO the fact that Darrin is worried about zero action speaks volumes to potential problems. Even if the problem is only a 10%; if they do nothing and say development slows, not exactly a rarity for H-town; then you might have the problem for a decade or more and have to give even more consideration for the next developer to take on the problem.
Whatever it is, fix it now and maintain the original agreed-upon plan.
Meanwhile since someone brought up Shoprite, I'm up there the other day basically surrounded by a dust devil of trash. Paper literally getting plastered to my legs, must have been 40ft wide by 20ft tall. No fences, all the crap goes to the Musky too, wraps around the rocks and fallen branches and lasts a long time. They should be forced to put in an attractive fence to keep the trash in.
strangerdanger what is zero action? The demolition started in June and 90% of the buildings are down, right? You need to look at the link for the website I sent on the LSRP. Whoever, is the LSRP for the Whitman Companies, Darrin says Todd Gerber, is liable under the regulation. Rather than make non-factual statements read the regulation.
I fail to see why someone who is liable under this program would want to be placed in a position of being at risk. I again him a proponent of this site being developed because I think it will help the downtown which needs help. Hopefully, it will lead to a better downtown and better future for Hackettstown. At a minim anything is better than the eyesore we've looked at for over 10 years.
The demolition did not start in June, it started, technically last year when they took down the first building and left all the rubble there over winter because "they could not get it out", then the real demolition started in the end of March this year. The buildings have been down SINCE June
The current property owner has owned the property since 2011, so technically it has been 4 years.............
TownieJim "I fail to see why someone who is liable under this program would want to be placed in a position of being at risk."
Do you keep up to date on news at all? as I have stated, many people have lost a lot more, over way stupider stuff, again not saying that it is happening, but I do not see the harm asking why do I smell oil on the site, why do I see what appear to be oil stains.....I am asking the right people and sometimes getting the right answers, other times not getting any answers.
There has only been one conceptual meeting about phase two (December 2013). Plans were submitted after that meeting, many deficiencies were raised by our town engineer at that time, and no response for new plans have been seen from the developer since. Towniejim, you gotta realize this is a long process, we are not going to have the Hackettstown gem you keep portraying for at the very least a few years.
Towniejim, just because there are rules to keep LSRPs in line doesn't mean that every one follows those rules. I believe that the LSRP is hired and chosen by the developer. So who is the LSRP going to answer to the town or the developer? Commonly, a lot of contractors look to cut corners to save money. When minor rules are not followed on a jobsite (like wearing hard hats and safety vests) that makes me suspicious that the major rules might be overlooked. I am not saying that this LSRP is not following the law, I'm just questioning the things that look suspicious or might seem not quite right. This is a property in my backyard and if something looks questionable, I plan on questioning it to the proper resources and letting my community know my concerns. And I appreciate that other concerned neighbors ask questions, too. IMO that means they care for the community as a whole. I think there is too much at stake with this property to just stick your head in the sand and not question what goes on. I will stay vigilant with the development and the cleanup and hope the town gets what the plan specifies.
I think the risk of the LSRP going rogue or being lax is pretty minimal; don't see the reward being worth the risk especially for this property.
The greater risk is in the town accepting weak plans to begin like the building being too dilapidated to repair. Since when is a solid brick building with standing walls not repairable. Less costly to raze is more like it. Or the risk of accepting plan changes and modifications mid stream like sure, just leave those slabs until later. That, combined with inertia can leave us with Phase II in limbo and things expected in Phase I changed and/or pushed to Phase II for completion. The unfinished mall next to Lowes is a good zero action example when something got started, stopped, and then just sits and sits.
The fact there are a number of concerned citizens should give the town pause to reflect on plan changes going forward.
In terms of planning, H-town could do better. Vehicle access along The Golden Mile starting at McD's is abysmal with way too many commercial buildings having separate access ramps. It's a planning issue. Actually most of the traffic patterns stink with new developments usually not helping. It's a "making the deal" issue. Look at what the Target or Wal-Mart developments sponsored for road improvements versus what H-town demands.
The prevalence of more and more high density housing surrounding the town center continues without proper infrastructure improvements putting more pressure on local services without enough ratables to cover the increased usage. All those townhomes etc. on Willow Grove with no change to the 46 intersection. Did better on 517, at least they got a light and a lane. Is there any plans for road improvement with the next new mega-high density going in there?
There's a clever art of the deal to attract developers without getting taken in the process. I don't think there's any stink Darrin, MORP, et al can raise that will not be for the better. Keeps the developers and town fathers on their toes. These developers are in it for the money; let em earn it. These professionals we hire to help with planning and engineering are expensive, let em earn it. And sure, it's probably impossible to attract big box stores to the town center, or a nice Whole Foods/Trader Joes, or luxury homes to the surrounds, but that's the town father's job --- get clever.
No matter what, we should not sell our resources for cheap; I think that's what Darrin, MORP, etc are helping out with.
"Look at what the Target or Wal-Mart developments sponsored for road improvements versus what H-town demands."
I think NJDOT was/is driving the bus as far as required traffic improvements in all three developments. Hackettstown may have some input as far as location of secondary accesses, but they don't have any more say in what happens on Main Street (with regard to signalization, dedicated turn lanes, etc.) than Mansfield had with SR-57 or WT had with US-46. That's all done as part of their Major Access Permit with NJDOT.
ianimal - You have no idea just how right you are. If you've ever been to a Town Council meeting and heard all the complaints of what they've tried to do a dozen or more times and DOT fails to even acknowledge the request. Or even worse, the times DOT had changed the Main & Grand or the 5 Points light timings and never told anyone.
Gotcha and I really don't know the process but would hope the town planners have input in all cases.
Actually the problem is the NJDOT requirements versus the town right? The town has no jurisdiction over what NJDOT requires and that is the rub. However, when Bergen was running a full capacity, and I remember it, they had many employees and certainly more than CVS will ever have. This project is good for the town and the community.
Good example TJim. When Bergen was here with all those employees, we basically had the same roads infrastructure. Back then I bet you didn't even have to snake down Washington to avoid the 46 gridlock or jump through East Prospect to miss the impossible left at the 517/46 light. And yet after all this new development, extra houses, now a box store, etc, we basically have the same capacity roads to attempt to travel with a few more cars than when Bergen employees were here. Just saying.
I agree TJim that the CVS development is good for all of us. Especially those in the West who will have a shorter drive now reducing traffic even more. Store traffic is more sporadic than commuter also. Not so sure about the 99 lower cost units going up next. Think at that point, there will be more cars than Bergen ever put on our streets. Think of it, if only one person drives to work, that's 100 cars or a train that's over 2,000 feet leaving each morning, close to half a mile. II two people, that's getting close to a mile of new cars each morning, each night. It matters.
But really I was just saying in general that development adds pressure to infrastructure, that the town has not exactly exceeded my expectations in terms of planning and that citizen watchdogs are a good thing.
Infrastructure is a funny think in that it has a stair step versus linear function. So you continue to add usage for a time and there is zero affect. Suddenly you add just one more car and no one moves. Same with schools, water, etc. It's all fine until you add that just one more and then it stops. There's lots of models, estimates, forecasts and experience for planning, but basically it's a voo-doo art to begin with. More so when the developers are helping to provide the details from the black art.
I realize the town leaders also have to work with what they have to attract good development to the town; it must be difficult to bring top notch yuppie businesses like Whole Foods or Trader Joes to the redneck capital of NW NJ. While Wal-Mart was a no brainer, Target was a nice coup that I enjoy heartily. Target goods with very easy access. I know, not quite Hackettstown, but again an example of the difficulties too given the limited footprints available in town.
I think overall CVS is a plus and am hopeful their retro colonial design will add to that part of town. Still does not mean that this developer is a plus nor that citizen watchdogs should not bark whenever they think something is amiss.
Your statement speaks wonders SD, spot on!
It is funny you bring this up, because I was just wondering that today actually, but in a bigger example. At what point did route 80 become such a disaster during rush hour? I was heading out to parsippany around 5:30 and couldn't help but notice the cars on the other side absolutely not moving. It made me think at what point did anyone ever think, okay we have added so much that now our infrastructure cannot handle this? Did they ever think of adapting the roadways to this new volume? The answer is no, they obviously just let it get to that point, and now we all have to deal with it.
Adding to what SD is stating, we all know that Main street cannot handle "efficiently" what we currently have, so why is it a good idea, and supposedly for the good of the town to keep adding to something we already know is a issue? (More speaking about the supposed 99 apartments here)
If we cannot come up with a plan to fix our current problems, we most certainly should not be planning to add to them. As SD brought up, there has been an alarming increase in side streets becoming bypasses, and that is very dangerous to our residential streets, especially how I have witnessed some drive on these roads.
I am just speaking of traffic here, there is so much more to it, such as schools, municipality facilities, electric service, water and sewer, shopping supplies, etc....just an overall town "load" that never seems to be considered when approving these type changes.
Strangerdanger great analysis. And I do agree that the town has to work with the retailers coming to this area and the design of the CVS is a plus. Don't know enough about the developer but am happy with what I see so far and provided things keep moving it will be great for this end of town.
By the way I see a lot of work at the old Ford building and it looks like that will be open soon.
Holy moly, hell must of froze over......they are cutting the front grass!!!!
As a update, CVS is moving along quite quickly and it looks like they have slowly started breaking up some of the concrete where the brick building sat, although I have not received any updates about it.
God forbid we have heavy traffic on the Main Street that would help the stores and cause people to actually have to slow down and take notice of what's on the Main Street. Darrin I'm guessing your to young to remember when Rt 80 didn't exists and the Main Street was mobbed from the people passing through to the Pocono's. The Main Street was vibrant and thriving. I vote heavy traffic versus empty stores and derelict buildings.
TJ I remember those days. I used to ride my horse down Main Street. The cars were stopped in traffic, but I just kept riding on. I remember people used to ask me if they could hop up and get a ride to the next block. Those were good days.
Martha TownieJim, your last statement says a lot about your stance in our town. So your fix to a problem is to add more to a different problem and maybe, just maybe one of them will get better?
I cannot see how anyone who lives in this town would not care about adding traffic, we can currently see that our residential streets are being used as bypasses, adding traffic will just make this worse and make our residential street more dangerous.
I can see how, prior to route 80, people headed to the Poconos helped our town, but that is just no longer the case, and the traffic you are talking about adding cannot compare to people traveling to a vacation spot.
One should NEVER plan to make streets so crowded they are unpassable (what you are looking to do by "making people slow down), this would cause a major safety hazard with emergency vehicles, especially on a roadway as small as main street. Anyways don't you know, in today's age, stopped in traffic makes for texting time....people are not looking at stores anymore, they shop on amazon and ebay, and have things shipped direct to their homes. Stores are being phased out right before our eyes.
I think in days of old, the fact that traffic and stores were busier is not connected. Wasn't like you had the shopping competition that Main Street has today.
Darrin stores are definitely being phased out, however, obviously some aren't: CVS and Dollar General all the wonderful restaurants in town and micro brewery's coming in. The emergency vehicles got through just fine when Rt 80 wasn't around and as they do now. Also whatever data you look at shows that population is declining in NJ not growing.
If Hackettstown ends up being a growth area I'm all for NJ great. I'm all in.
Yup, population is declining, yet we are adding multiple areas of housing....makes sense.
Towniejim, as I have stated before, I do not have a issue with stores, not one bit, as long as they are built in such a way they do not affect the local residential areas. My concern lies in the housing component of this project. Especially since our town still has a few approved, but yet to be built large scale housing units going in that they have not even got the chance to study the affects of. We should definitely not be approving any more housing without first seeing how the other approved units affect our town.
Declining Population=More Apartments
Lol
Plus I love how developers want to put in senior housing when most of the seniors retire out of the state.
HACKETTSTOWN PLANNING BOARD
Hackettstown, New Jersey 07840
215 Stiger Street
TO: ALL MEMBERS OF THE HACKETTSTOWN PLANNING BOARD
RE: SEPTEMBER 22, 2015 MEETING
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Hackettstown Planning Board will be held
Tuesday, September 22, 2015 at 7:30 PM in the Municipal Building, 215 Stiger Street,
Hackettstown, New Jersey.
3. Pledge of Allegiance
4. Approval of minutes –March 24, 2015
5. Resolutions – None
6. Consideration of Proposed Ordinance 2015-09 – AN ORDINANCE OF THE
TOWN OF HACKETTSTOWN AMENDING AND REPLACING SECTION
410 (ENTITLED “PMU” PLANNED MIXED DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT
FORMAL ACTION MAY OR MAY NOT BE TAKEN
I am wondering what item 6 is?
Darrin,
It should be interesting to see what amending and replacing will be presented at the meeting. I would hope that the planning board sticks with the master plan of the town. The planning board and community had worked very hard and long to put together a descent master plan only a couple of years ago.
What I was told is it is an ordinance to amend some of the zoning provisions on the bergen tool site. So I am interested to see what the developer is trying to amend, or change, from what has been in discussion for years now.
Something tells me it won't be a "less is more" discussion. I would expect either more stores, more bedrooms, or more apartments. You can google "SECTION 410 zoning hackettstown nj" and the PDF description will pop including some salient numbers like (hash marks added):
"- 9 dwelling units per acre, 99 units maximum
- a minimum of 30,000 square feet of retail or office building space shall be constructed on the first floor and/or incorporated into the first floor plans of any buildings fronting on Main Street and Stiger Street
- a maximum of 98,500 square feet of office floor area or indoor commercial recreation floor area or combination thereof shall be permitted in site areas more
- All principal buildings fronting on Main Street or Stiger Street shall not exceed three (3) stories or fifty (50) feet
- A minimum of ten (10) percent of the dwelling units shall be set aside as affordable housing units. The affordable housing obligation shall be implemented by a minimum in lieu payment of $25,000 per affordable unit obligation.
- a Parking Garage
- Three (3) acres of open space shall be set aside to the rear of the site and graded for park activities. Ownership and maintenance of this open space and the installation of recreational facilities would remain with the tract owner.
- An average of no more than two (2) bedrooms per unit shall be required for all apartment/condominium units."
One funny one: "The architectural character of all buildings on Main Street must be consistent with the historic architectural style of the buildings on Main Street that are located within the Town’s Historic District." I leave it to HackettstownLife to discuss what that building would look like.............
So Darrin and MORP, grab this document and be prepared with the numbers agreed upon so you can see the degree of change these folk's are look at. For example, moving the before average to 3 means a 50% increase in everything.....
Good luck folks.
IDK who's idea it was to put "as well as delivery and removal of materials and debris, shall occur between the hours of 6:30 a.m. and 7:00 p.m., Monday through Saturday" in the resolutions, but hearing dump trucks backing up, dumping loads and slamming the rear gates, guys yelling and such at 6:45 on a Saturday is getting VERY old.
I never thought to ask at meetings, but I certainly would of thought that our officials would of thought to be more considerate to the residents when having a construction project in a residential neighborhood. Lesson learned....bring it up at the next phase.
Tomorrow (Tuesday the 22nd) nights meeting may be very interesting if anyone is interested in phase 2
I'm planning on be there.
It looks as though they are removing and grinding up the concrete slabs at the sight. I assume that they will not be burying the slabs at this point. I think it's a plus for all involved.
Hey Morp, think back to what I have been saying.......progress before meetings.......it has always happened with this site.
They let the site sit sit sit, then just before they have a meeting they start doing work
But on a positive note (for townie) it is a huge win for the town getting the developer to do the right thing and remove the slabs. Lets keep watching and make sure they all get removed. I did notice some footings still in the ground, I wonder if they will be getting removed or left?
I am sure the dirt will be used for fill as long as it is not contaminated, although they may have to remove it since it is the dirt they dug out and replaced with gravel since the soil was unfit for a foundation.
The meeting is postponed until 10/1/2015. There were not enough planning board members to perform a meeting.
From the looks I got at the plans, it looks like they are now looking to make the rest of the site town homes, I think 60 was the number they put on it.
I love the idea of keeping residential in a residential area, but their initial numbers are way to high, IMO this very area cannot support that much more homes.
Anyone who is surrounding the property, or concerned about the property should come to the Thursday October 1st meeting at 7:30. They are looking to change the ordnance to allow town homes along with commercial. 66 2 bedroom units and 42 apartments are being asked for. They also may be looking to use 2nd, 3rd, or the upper East Stiger street (PAMPUR!) as additional entrances to the property.
I like the idea of homes, but their numbers are way too high, if anyone is concerned about this, please join us at this meeting to voice your concern, or to just listen.
Two bedroom townhomes are starter homes: IMHO yes better than apartments and better than 2-story apartments and the total number from 99 to 102 isn't a huge increase. 3%. Probably ends up looking like the townhomes squeezed in behind Dunkin Donuts. Wonder what if there is any increase in estimated occupancy is?
I like the repaving going on west of the train tracks through the CVS intersection and out 46 just in time to rip it up for CVS construction........:>(
It is actually 108, but whos counting....that plus retail space. Exactally like adding a whole nother east prospect to this side of town. East prospect has 70 homes for the two lane section. And they want to add all this traffic to a area that at rushour already gets completely blocked. There is also already teo approved housing conplexes to go in that are still to be built. Hopefully our town realises this and cuts the number in half!
They have also included a redesigned retention pond that.looks to run behind the houses that back the property. It's bigger, which is good, but i think we need more. I am also unsure if it is still being included in open space.
I'm very concerned about putting low-cost residential homes there. It may attract undesirables like Mansfield Village (no offense to anyone who lives there, but there is a significant amount of crime). I feel like Main Street has already taken a dive with some of the stores on that street, I don't think it's helping anyone by building cheap houses. I may just come and voice my thoughts Thursday...
1988LJ 1988LJ - "low-cost residential homes" These are 2 bedroom town homes. No low cost homes are scheduled.
As for "completely blocked during rush hour" - when is that? I go by there all the time and at most you have to wait one traffic light? Totally missed the point of prior traffic at times before some of us were born. When you compare 1 or 2 lights worth with 4-5 *miles* of backup, this is nothing. I'm as concerned as everybody with safety when it comes to other over patterns and exits and residential issues. And the amount of open space promised vs delivered and the right water table are places where constructive work can be done by all of us. Less FUD.
@1988LJ
I lived in Mansfield Village for 5 years. What are you trying to say? BTW, when you say something extremely offensive, the phrase "no offense" does not vindicate you of being a total @ss.
Common Sense Yeah! I lived in an apt complex for 12 years and then bought a 2 bedroom townhome. It is lovely. For YEARS I heard negative sh"t about apt. Dwellers and then townhome/condo people.
Enough I say. Grow up those who have crap to say here.
Happy Monday. At least for me. My rant is over.
GC, original zoning for the property required 10% low income with a option to buy out of the requirement, there is not even formal plans for these town homes, they are conceptual to try to get the zoning changed. At 66 town homes and 44 apartment, how can you claim none are scheduled to be low income? I think it is a little early to make that call, unless you know something I do not?
As far as blocked during rush hour, yeah, during rush hour go to the east stiger street traffic light, look left down main, and look right up main. Cars stopped both ways as far as you can see......this has been discussed many times here and at meetings, where the board has acknowledged that residential streets are being used more and more often to bypass route 46 traffic.
I have no problem with town homes, like them better then apartments, I would rather see stable residents as opposed to people or businesses that come and go. My issues lies in the amount, 108 is way too much load on our town, there are many many factors that come into play, including the fact that two other housing developments have been approved, but have not been built, and we are yet to see their effect on our town.
fyi, it seems the edit post option no longer shows up
Apparently mesah was not counting :>) That's a 10% increase in everything from developer revenue to town traffic to school kids..... To me, that's a big number.
Yes GC there is traffic in H-town and the question is where is the tipping point for complete gridlock? One car, 99 cars or 110 cars. Basically we are already at full avoidance for commuting and weekend peaks. Means I have to plan my candy runs to Tracey's. Me not like.
Yes, there is a 10% low income with a buy out clause with the developer has at least looked at, may have made a deposit, not sure if that's a done deal. But even at 10%, IMHO no big deal; the big deal is the size of homes. And yes, townhomes IMO are better than apartments; I think we have enough apartments based on the vacancies.
At two bedrooms, these are "starter" homes; three bedrooms is "family" home. Of course what you do with that second bedroom depends whether you are a senior (office/spare room) or young family (bed room). Can be a real difference in infrastructure needs especially if that second bedroom is a bunk house. Better check for basements aka the third bedroom.........
No offense but there is not a significant amount of crime anywhere in Hackettstown; that's just whackadoodle, but no offense.
Like the idea of townhomes. They equal ownership which equals people vested in the community. Despite all Darrin's proclamations about traffic, flooding, etc. this project at the end of the day is a big benefit to the community in my opinion. Better looking Main Street, a growing town ( Warren County is losing population), ratables ( yes these actually matter) and the potential to spur more redevelopment of the Main Street. Times are changing and the town needs to change with the times.
Traffic on Main Street is limited to very short periods. In comparison to other areas we look like nothing is happening. I previously pointed out to Darrin that prior to I-80 going in Rt 46 was "the road to the Pocono's" and the town functioned just find. Not sure how long Darrin has lived in the area, however, his perspective doesn't seem to account for what the town experienced in the 60's, 70's and 80's: vibrant Main Street, lots of traffic and a great quality of life. Let's bring it back!!! We can do it!! Hackettstown is a great community and it's time to move forward.
Towniejim, you and GC seem to point back to a time when traffic apparently was horrible, this should be a lesson, not a benchmark.
Again, I will mention, the public's role in this project is to determine and voice what they feel is best for the town, this includes taking in public opinion as well as discussing what we would like to see. Yes, you could put anything on the site and it would be better then a vacant factory, we get it, you have said it 1000 times, but you cannot just slap anything you want there simply because it is "better" then what was there, there are many situations, and loads that need to be calculated on our town and what it can handled before creating an undesirable condition.
if you think adding 108 homes to the center of town is going to bring back the 70's you are thinking on cloud nine, that is just not reality. Everyone shops at Walmart now, goes to CVS, and does their Christmas shopping online.
strangerdanger, as usual with this topic, you are dead on point.
Where is that tipping point? People in town talk how are schools are full, whats being done to address that? They are building more and more housing in the form of apartments, are they the ones that are going to pay for the new schools or are the homeowners going to pay it in tax increases?
There is already two large approved rental/housing complexes that have not even been built, what load will they be adding? You can do current traffic studies, and other studies all you want, but they will not factor in the already approved but not built projects. It seems to me like the town is willing to hand out the approval to build housing like free ice cream samples, but one day all these approved housings are going to be built and we could potentially have a major problem on our hands, then what do we do, because I can guarantee you, it will not be the 70s
Darrin ridiculous! You obviously have a different perspective than me on this project and I get it. I'm guessing I'm older than you and with age comes wisdom, less guessing and the posture of experience. You opinion on this seems entirely driven by your proximity to the property and I get it, no problem. However, you bear some level of responsibility for where you choose to live. Many other residents live in Hackettstown and they may have a different opinion than you as I do.
Your comment about where people shop is somewhat interesting because you decried the need for the CVS and now recognize it as where people want to shop, I agree. This is good for the Main Street because it means they will stay. In my mind 5-10 minutes of additional traffic at very specific times is not a inconvenience. We need to remain vibrant as a town and that equates to growth and people which in my book helps Hackettstown.
Look objectively, think of all the residents in town and not just the impact on you.
Towniejim, you are very quick to make insulting statements about my ideas and comments but fail to point out what you are even talking about making your last statement totally useless in this conversation. Care to add some more details, or is everything I say ridiculous?
How does my concern with the additional route 46 traffic have to do with where I live? I hardly ever use route 46 for travel, I use the side streets like everyone else that lives in this town because 46 sucks to travel on how it is. If it was blocked it would not have any impact on my daily activities, but as the main artery in our town, I am concerned about it.
My concerns have been very town based, and yes I get it, as always to try to cover that up and make it seem like I am worried about myself, but as I keep telling you that is just not the case, if I was worried about myself I would just move....there problem solved, why would I waste my time going to every single town meeting for the past 2 years, and sit her talking with you about it? Moving is much simpler!
I see you still feel a CVS and the fact that it has the potential of running other business that have been family run on our main street out is good. It seems to me you are more focused on big businesses, which yes, is the way of the world, but is certainly not going to restore the main street you speak of, unless it is just the traffic you are looking for.
Darrin, I am not 100% sure where they are in the process, I think 99 units are a forgone conclusion and the question is does the town allow an additional 10% to bring them to 108 units. The developer bought the track for 99 units, the plan was scoped at 99 units. I think one should ask WIFM before agreeing to an extra 10%.
I don't know the ROI comparison between a townhome and an apartment and, of course, whatever it is you have to have a market, as in buyers. But a townhome is full cash in hand for land and improvements, loss of said asset, and no management against an apartment's holding the asset (to do with what you want to in the future), long term cash flow, and lots of management. I am betting the townhome benefits the developer although IMHO benefits the town also. I especially am in favor of mixed development so that neighborhoods are not just acres and acres of mass uniformity.
TJim: A bit rude son, but I do agree that townhomes are a plus over apartments for the reasons you mention and more. Would rather see some larger, more expensive units, but still a plus over apartments.
Your comments on traffic and infrastructure being better than the past is a non-starter unless you're comparing Route 80 Pocono traffic. In the real world of Hackettstown today, we do have traffic and 99 homes is a significant amount for commuter, probably not so much for weekend. An additional 10% is just that. And infrastructure is a stair-step function, not linear. So at some point, the tipping point, everything stops and you need a bigger road, more water pipes and water, a new school, etc., etc. If that happens, it's not just an extra five minutes but more like 20 or 30 and people going elsewhere because you can't get there from here. If you commute, yeah, that's real important to you.
Now you can bet everyone was armed with a plethora of studies, research, and data as to the 99 apartments; wanna bet they just say "well, what's another 10%" with absolutely no research on par with the previously conducted studies?
So the answer TJim is we just don't know what an additional 10% load over the 99 homes will bring except 10% more revenue than the developer signed up for when they bought the property and presented the plan and the plan's ramifications to the town. Matter of fact, each townhome probably has more value than each apartment so they are better off at a 99 mix than they were with 99 apartments. Tell them thank you for the townhomes, and unless you redo all the planning at the level of the original, let's stick with 99 homes and thank you very much.
As far as the CVS and competition, let's remember this is a move for CVS and not a new store. For all you know they will lose customers that don't want the extra drive. Meanwhile there is only one pharmacy, Skylands, which may feel the heat from proximity, but they have been existing against the big box stores for some time and I would hope know what to do. I doubt Quick Chek or Dollar Store is quaking and I am guessing everyone else is saying yippee for the extra customer traffic in the area.
So I still think Darrin is right to pursue the flooding issues and any other issue to hold the developers and town to the plan or positive changes only. There is no downside to this unless you feel holding people accountable is bad. I do not think an additional 10% in units, people, traffic, etc. is warranted but am open and would love to see the research that says it is. Or give us the WIFM, "what's in it for me" to add 10%. And again, thanks for the townhomes, great improvement.
@SD "As far as the CVS and competition, let's remember this is a move for CVS and not a new store"
I do not believe that is true, I heard CVS will be keeping the other store due to it's desirable location next to shop rite, so this will be a new store
I have said it before and I will say it again, I am all for more stable, permanent housing in Hackettstown, so town homes are a large plus over apartments, but IMO cut the numbers. I was not present when they had the meetings that agreed that mixed use, 99 units over top of commercial space was right for the project, but I can tell you that when they decided that, there was not two other approved housing complexes going in, so as towniejim said, times change, and since the developer has waited so long, maybe we should first re-think that mixed use 99 units condition, considering we have already approved so much other housing in close proximity
The problem I foresee is it is a builders world, as it has been stated before, you cannot tell a developer what they can or cannot do with their property. And of course a developer is going to try to jam pack as much as they possibly can on a plot of land, and not really care about it's affects on the surrounding area, because that means more money for them.....after all, they do not live here, and they get to walk away after the project is complete.
So how do we go about getting what we all know is right for the town? A reasonable amount of housing?
"The problem I foresee is it is a builders world, as it has been stated before, you cannot tell a developer what they can or cannot do with their property"
Of course you can... that's the definition of "zoning".
IMHO a townhouse or an apartment is the same thing. A townhouse can and will be purchased by some investor and turn around and rent it out. Before you know it a very large percentage of them will be rental units. We all know what that will be like, especially in the center of town.
By definition, property taxes will increase 2% by law literally. Right now that beats inflation, but.....
Avg NJ rates hit 2.2% last year, but games with tax credits and allowances for asset improvements outside the rate cap can make things higher.
Htown at 3.1%. What can I say, shoulda moved to Mansfield at -7% or Indy at .2%..... Don't feel to bad, I think Townships at less than 2% can "bank" the percentage to use in subsequent years...... There ought to be a law....
http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/2015/02/02/new-jersey-property-tax-increases-by-town/22770585/
This is apparently the "correct" way to leave contaminated material on the site?
Remember, phase 2 conceptual meeting asking to change zoning tonight at 7:30
It seems the covers have been blown off for quite some time considering the water build up in them. I am SO glad we have a LSRP "watching" this site
Why do I see dancing cartoon characters and here the song "on with the show this is it!!!"
Good luck tonight.
matt The board approved the fact that the new zoning goes along with the master plan with a few requests (there may be more, but I do not remember, it was a long meeting):
1. Asking for more open space, the board seemed pretty fed up with constantly changing the zoning on the property to fit the needs of the developers wallet, they felt they have been wasting their time and want something in return for yet again allowing the zoning to be changed.
2. They want a ordinance that open space is to be done during the project (say 50% project completion) so that we are assured we get the open space and that it does not get put off and end up getting done last, or not done at all.
3. They want the open space to be in the form of a field, so that kids can play soccer, baseball, or other sports, not just a wooded area with walking trails.
There were two VERY good notable inclusions on the new zoning, huge wins!:
1. It is now to be stated in the zoning that storm water management cannot be included as open space, this is something the developer time and time again was trying and the public has been fighting tooth and nail....huge win! I am VERY happy about this!
2. Townhouse spacing is to be a minimum of 20 feet, meaning that regardless of what is decided with sizing of retention ponds (this has not been agreed on yet), streets, or landscaping, the developer can only put the number of homes that fit to the zoning ordnance (20 foot separation).
3. Ground coverage will be going from 65% to 50% with the new plan
Some concerns:
1. The number of homes, I have stated my concern here, and I stated my concern to the board.
2. They are saying that 66 Town homes (with 75% maximum to be three bedroom) and 44 apartments will be adding 25 kids to the schools, I called total BS on this figure and from the looks I got, I could tell the board totally agreed.
I am sure there is a ton I am forgetting, it was a VERY informative meeting and quite a few people showed up.
Darwin, it was nice to see you at the meeting, I am not sure if you wanted to talk after the meeting, if you did, hit me up, we can meet up one night if you would like
Good news at least Phase II can finally proceed. More good news for the town and I like the townhouses.
Calm down there TJ, this is only zoning, we have a whole bunch of meetings ahead of us once the zoning is approved to actually come up with plans, there are many many factors when it comes to adding 108 homes in this area of town, you cannot just throw a number out there and hope it works.
As the board stated this is not the first time the developer has changed his mind of what he wants to do with the property, the developer has changed his mind so many times the board is getting tired of it. I too like residential, and I told the board that during public review.
Just for the record, the only reason this zoning change happened is because the developer changed his mind what he wants to do with the property. The developer, in the past has tried cramming even more housing onto the property, but has been declined by the board.
So did they get the 108 or is that still being discussed?
75% three bedroom; is that more bedrooms than in the past?
75% max 3 bedroom means 50 town homes. Originally it was a "average" of two bedroom homes. They also want a deed restriction of no further rooms to be added. Much like other town homes, basements have been converted to bedrooms despite zoning.
The 108 is just the zoning allowance, but does not mean we will have 108, for instance, whatever is decided in the planning phase (whenever that comes) (the developer had a crayon drawn drawing at this meeting so it is hard to say) can change the number of homes. For instance, more drainage, better streets, better landscape all have to coincide with the 20 foot minimum distance between homes, as well as not be included in open space, so if that means once we are done with the planning, the developer, for example, can only fit 60 homes, then that's what he gets. It's all going to be in the planning.
Darrin
Bedrooms in the basement. Would that comply with the Division of Community Affairs under the Fire Code?
Paul should look into that.
Also that means with roads involved, the complete street layout would have to be changed.
Charlie
No, no Charlie, I was saying how other town homes have done that, our board wants a deed restriction for number of bedrooms here so that cannot be changed.
Yes roadways look like a complete change, although initial Childs drawings (I swear those drawings looked like someone painted them in crayon) show Bergen tool still being moved to east stiger like in the past. But these next meetings, when this finally makes the planning board, will be the time to bring it up.
I thought the meeting went well. It was pretty well attended but that being said only Darrin and I spoke out publicly with some good suggestions and ideas. Funny how everyone talks things up on H-Life but when it counts at a public meeting you hear nothing but crickets.
One of the attendees was nice enough to thank both Darrin and I for speaking and following this project as citizens and community members. I appreciate that and will do my best for our community.
Please be sure to attend the Town Council Meeting Oct 8th and voice your opinions.
Remember this is our Community.
The meeting went well and both Darrin and TheMorp brought up good points, especially themorp. However last night's meeting was just a formality since the planning board has no authority to approve or decline the new changes. They were just offered an opportunity to give their opinion. The true meeting will be next week at the town council. They will decide whether to approve the changes or not. If they do, then the developer will submit an application that meets the new ordinance and we will start the whole phase 2 and phase 3 processes finally. Hopefully with better pictures. If the town council declines or asks for changes to be made, then we will be back to square one and have to start this whole process over from scratch. So yes there was good turnout last night but next week Town Council meeting on the 8th is where we need the biggest community turnout.
The new ordinance called for a homeowners association to be created for the new townhomes, so my question was going to be how soon before or after the townhomes are built does that new association need to be formed, Since the association will be responsible for the upkeep of that phase. But I figured the planning board was not the right group to ask that question to.
My only problem at the meeting was with Bill who is also on the town council. It was suggested we include ball fields in the plan and he stated he was against adding rec fields in a residential area. To avoid another Warren St. issue. We need more fields for the kids. Having woods with walking paths is ok but there needs to be actual grass fields for the kids to play on. I coach with Burke and he was right at the meeting, come spring time this town cannot accommodate all the team sports. Also more fields in town would spread people out so it would actually benefit Warren St residents. In an ideal world Phase 3 would not have any buildings and would be a multi-use park for the town. But I know this town council would never do something ideal like that.
and no Darrin, while it was nice to see you, I was actually waiting to talk to someone else :) but I'll grab a beer with you sometime soon
Very nice points Darwin, couldn't agree more. I just wanted to scream that the problem with not enough parking at fields and so many people at the fields is because WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FIELDS!!!! ......wouldn't making another field be a step in the right direction to fix that issue? I am all for it!
I believe the entirety of the property will now be completed under phase 2, so no more phase 3.
Okay, I just wanted to make sure I was not being rude, the offer is always open.
FYI, response from site LSRP regarding the uncovered contamination:
Thank you for bring this to our attention. We have reached out to the site manager and demanded that better attention is paid to keeping the piles covered. The have indicated that they will be out today to recover the piles. We will be following up with the higher level management of the site and let them know that if they cannot maintain the piles in our absence, we will have to have a stronger everyday presence on site.
We have been told that we will receive photos of the recovered piles. We will also be on-site next week to do other work and inspect the existing piles
Todd
Darrin, yes this is zoning and that permits the use on the property which allows the property to be developed. No big leap of faith here the townhouses are a better use and ratable for the town, end of story. I wonder how the residents in that area like the idea of a active ball-field. By the way that generates traffic which you seem very concerned about?
The new Dollar General looks great the CVS is moving along and the completion of the balance of this project is a game changer, much needed, for this end of town.
I do agree, I do not mind traffic that benefits the town like fields would, our kids need ball-fields to play on, that is the reason there is so much traffic at fields, there is not enough fields in the town how it is. The rest of what you said, I actually agree with. At 108 homes, the property is obviously going to need more entrances/exits then the initial just east stiger as shown, so I hope this will change over time and traffic will be more evenly distributed
I dunno. Those soccer Moms jamming in to grab there kids and then skedaddle just before a thunder bumper can be pretty intense. Doesn't last long but don't be crossing the street until that parade passes :>)
And then they bring on those lights for night games.......
Actually my only issue, and it's hard to avoid, is when the ball fields become stadiums with lots of heavy metal infrastructure making the field a major development in itself.
Also notable, something different is going to have to be done with bergen street. The railroad is currently blocking off the makeshift turn around and the street is turning into a dead end with not enough room for two cars to even pass. That makes it completely impossible for rescue or fire vehicles to access, I am not even sure a fire truck could access the road now how it is. I think they will end up having to make that road continue through somehow.
As you can see these are just two of the factors phase two is going to be faced with. Currently the initial only other entrance/exit of the property is through the un-signaled entrance to the CVS parking lot and that is certainly not adequate for a CVS as well as 108 homes.
I am awaiting formal plans though to make judgement, these are just some issues that could arise by looking at the conceptual plans.
Towniejim-This property and neighborhood handled a ball field in the past and the parking/traffic weren't a major issue to neighbors. Most of our neighborhood is pro ballfield and whenever I speak with people there one of their first concerns is the ballfield being retained within the property's future plan.
Towniejim, I'm somewhat interested to where you reside and wonder if you would be affected by the parking/traffic of the ballfield. The previous ballfield affected mostly E. Prospect St residents between 2nd and 4th St period. Again, I pretty much know most of these people and they are a majority pro ballfield. So I don't see parking/traffic as a major problem pertaining to the ballfield.
Strangerdanger-the town can restrict the ball field to not putting in lights.
As far a metal structure mess goes, the old field had a back stop, two benches, a 5 row aluminum bleacher unit and a small parking area. Which was very minimal.
Quite frankly, I think it would be a good area for a small sided soccer field. Then you just contend with two portable small goals and two benches. At most soccer matches, parents bring folding chairs and you wouldn't need a bleacher. Plus a soccer field can be multi functional for lacrosse, field hockey, practice for football, golf pitching, Frisbee tossing, kite flying, jogging, Baseball practice, etc. Basically, open recreational space.
The Morp in close proximity, however, I also remember the field when it operated and it worked fine. However, it really wasn't much of a field and it became a field there go the trees and I think you might be surprised how many resident's would be supportive of that.
Last time I looked there area is heavily overgrown and any field created there would require wholesale clearing.
How about a dog park I think that would work well and they seem pretty popular where they've been done.
Oh, I was just fooling, ball fields for the kiddies and especially the young daddies is good stuff.
But a ball field is different than a park; it is different than a playing field.
Kinda of like a golf course for non-golfers, nice to look at but you're never going to walk there. Probably won't play soccer there, just baseball.
towniejim, in case you were not aware it has been mentioned at meetings by the developer that the area with the trees is as well contaminated and there are two options, take down the trees to clean the area up, or fence off the area so people cannot access and leave the trees (these were the only two options given by the developer). So IMO, trees grow back, our priority should be to get the site fully cleaned up, plus you can bet if they fence off the trees, they will be looking to include it in "open usable space"
I think we all know it would be completely plausible to leave some trees and work around them, but this was not an option given. Well see what happens in the meetings to come. I can guarantee that from the boards reaction at this first meeting, a open field is going to be what they want.
SD, keeping the current ball field in addition to the 3 acres open space is what the board wanted in return for the seemingly endless times they have bowed down and given the developer what he wanted with nothing in return (their words not mine) The ultimate goal for the open space is a open field that can be used as themorph mentioned, for a variety of sports. I am all for it!
I think a baseball/softball field limits the usage. A soccer style field give the field multiple usage, as I said in my earlier post. I'm for making the area pet friendly but no just limited to an exclusive pet park area. Even though pet owners do pay taxes, pets do not. Kids don't pay taxes either but eventually they do when the grow up. The Nelson Hoyt Riverfront park is pet friendly and I think that park would better handle a dog park. Another area that would better suit a dog park might be the open area by the HMUA on Miller St. Behind the small playground.
Again, I think a multiple usage recreational field with a track or walking path(similar to Alumni field). Making it pet friendly and limiting it to a daytime park(no lighting allowed). Possible small parking area or Cul-da-sac on third st. for easy drop off/pick up. Plus the police can monitor the park easily at night with a Cul-da-sac. That seems to make sense to me.
Trusses going up today on CVS building.
My guess would be: They want to be in by Xmas. But reality tells me February. Just a guess.
Workers worked past the 7pm cutoff as per their resolutions, think there will be any consequences?
FYI, town concil meeting October 8th at 7:30pm
-Public hearing and final adoption, Ordinance 2015-09, Amending and replacing Section 410
Entitled “PMU” Planned Mixed Use Downtown Development.
So if anyone is concerned with the new ordenacne, including the 108 homes to be approved to put in this is one of the more important meetings to come to
When I was in construction, I used to love crane day.
Geeez, Darrin, unless it is egregious repeated act, give me a break. After all, it was crane day.........
Beautiful!!!! Love to see the steel going up. CVS will be open before we know it big plus for this end town. This end of Main St looking better already. CVS, Dollar General (corporations) and new micro brewery on Valentine St. I love it.
You know what SD, between the vibrations sending stuff falling off my shelves (brought that up to the town and town engineer for months) he informed them it was adversely affecting the neighborhood yet they kept using the machine to now them not adhering to the hours of operation rules......enough gets to be enough.
They started building prior to DOT approval and followed NONE of the plans that were discussed at the town meeting that allowed them to start building. These plans included temporary drainage improvements to protect the residents, the whole reason we had that meeting.
Now we have a building going up along with major topography changes with absolutely no working drainage improvements done. East Stiger street has not even been touched, yet they sloped the property so that water runs towards east stiger, hey they will be high and dry so screw the residents right?
Our town makes rules, but then nobody is there to stop them when these rules are not followed......this needs to stop. Especially when it is all the risk on the residents
"Workers worked past the 7pm cutoff as per their resolutions, think there will be any consequences?"
seriously how far passed the 7pm cutoff were they? 15mins? 30mins? an hour? I'm sure if they were in the middle of placing a Truss they weren't going to stop in the middle of doing it just because it was 7pm.
This isn't the Flinstones where once the whistle blows everyone slides off their cranes and rushes home. come on let's not be silly about them going past 7pm once
darwin, at 7pm they were lifting new trusses into place, I could understand if they were in middle of something, the 7pm rule was set in to respect the houses that are right next to the site. How it is we have dealt with 6:30 am dump truck slamming tailgates on Saturday mornings, this has been a real pita. And yet again today, stuff falling off my shelves, running the same tamper I was told they were not suppose to be running.
I really cannot wait until this shit is done.
WOW ,glad I don't have such a chronic complainer living next door,you lived next to a crumbling building full of chemicals for years and that was ok?
Town Council public hearing tonight at 7:30pm concerning the adoption of the 108 town home ordinance.
We live one block over from Darrin and the noise is intense from the rising to the setting of the sun. The house shakes horribly, and we too have had stuff fall from shelves. Our dog barks all day bc of the noise. I understand that this is what happens in a construction zone, but it does create a lot of frustration..Plus, they were working on 46 during the night until the wee hours which just added to the noise. Looking forward to the building being completed. Hopefully Stiger is not going to be a mess bc of where the store is located. Personally, I have seen a mother and daughter get hit in the crosswalk when they had the crosswalk green light, by a vehicle making the left onto 46W. It is a busy intersection, and I no longer walk to the stores, bc I was almost hit twice. Many times while driving I am suddenly cut-off by aggressive drivers making the left onto 46w in front of me and I had the right of way. Trusting that the town has made plans for dealing with the crosswalks there, bc the pedestrians matter too!
kay Kay,
Just to give you a update, I spoke with the town engineer about this again last night. CVS is to be putting a seismograph type device on the property line and monitoring disturbances. If they are beyond the permissible level they absolutely have to do something about it. In the meantime, Paul alerted CVS of the issue (again) and they are suppose to be using a smaller compactor, as well as layering in smaller amounts so they do not have to beat it down so much. This has been going on for 2 months now and I have given more then enough time to correct.
For the record, you are now the third person I have talked to who says they too are having stuff fall of their shelves. This should not be disturbing our homes in this way.
I have been following this thread over the past year and while I live in Independence, I drive through main street every day and am always interested in the happenings of our town. Darrin - how close do you live near CVS? I see there is a very tiny road from main street next to train tracks that seems to have homes on it (I have never gone down that road) and also homes across the street from CVS on Stiger/46 intersection.
Doesn't seem right that your homes are shaking like this during construction--that would be driving me bonkers too!
mom of one, I live on East Stiger.
GUNSnROSES, my house has been there since the 20's and many of the houses being affected have been there even longer then that.
Since the house is that old as well as the bergen site then when you purchased wouldnt that have been the time to think about purchasing next to a commercial zone. Only three things were gonna happen with that site, reopen as a factory, site sit empty with all of the polution you speak of laying there or as is happening it get redeveloped. While i can respect wanting to make sure things are done properly many of the complaints are things you should have considered at the point of purchase. Starting to sound a little like the people who buy the house next to an airport then complain its loud.
Jdem Hey. They live on the train tracks behind the lumber yard. If he says this construction is loud, its LOUD. Not to mention out of ordinance which he did mention.
Unnecessary construction noise is unnecessary construction no matter where it is.
That's just not right under any stretch of the imagination.
A complaint for weeks was they were leaving slabs in place, then they break them up and the complaint is noise and ground disturbance. There is not a quite smooth form of concrete break up and removal. At some point it is just complaining for the sake of complaining
Jdem, the slabs were not a "complaint" it was a concern of not following suit to agreed plans. Diligence got the slabs removed and that is a good thing.
The ground movement (vibrations) that have knocked pictures off my walls have nothing to do with them breaking up slabs, the vibrations are because CVS picked a site to build on with poor soil that is not buildable as it sits and have to now take compacting steps as well as soil replacement steps to make the soil buildable. IDK about you, but it seems more as their fault then mine. Following your logic they should of researched the site prior to building correct?
I think you need to do a little more research, or at least reading back on this site before jumping on a band wagon trying to say I just complain to complain, you will find this is not the case.
I have no problems with the construction, or the use of the site, or even the old building that was on the site. I have a problem when things are done that are not to agreed plans, not as discussed, done improperly, or when what is getting done affects my residence in such a way that I have to take the pictures off my walls in fear of them breaking, these are all valid concerns.
OK - This project has been pushing or defying the ordinances and agreements from the start.
IMHO - the affect on your homes and lives is interference with your right to live peacefully in your home. A very basic right - which I guess you (we) have to fight for.
What is the recourse?
We do not live by the railroad tracks..We live one block over from Darrin on East Prospect..I cannot imagine what it is like for those who live right next to the rail..
Darrin your kidding right? From day one you've been against this project. First it was the building in the front being tore down, then flooding, complaints about meetings being postponed, how the piles on-site were being handled. There even is a statement in posts saying you'll never shop at the CVS, which I doubt.
And now you've moved on to noise complaints, slabs not being removed, dust, when the workers stop and finish. Be a little objective okay. We get that you don't like the the project but from what I see it's going to be finished. But what's the alternative you want them to stop. Let it get finished and you can move on.
townie jim, dead serious, but obviously you are kidding......I will re-iterate what I said in case you did not understand "I have no problems with the construction, or the use of the site, or even the old building that was on the site. I have a problem when things are done that are not to agreed plans, not as discussed, done improperly, or when what is getting done affects my residence in such a way that I have to take the pictures off my walls in fear of them breaking, these are all valid concerns."
The rest of what you said is just BS.
And some examples:
Front building being torn down: the property owner bought the property knowing he was to keep the building then begging to take it down.
Flooding: The property is in a area known to flood, the situation cannot be made worse. Obviously I brought up a good point because the night CVS was expected to get approved got delayed a year due to a flood survey needing to get done and MULTIPLE plan changes due to this study.
Piles on site: All the details are there, contaminated material was found to be left uncovered or covers blown off, what more is there to say?
Noise complaints: I said my house is shaking so bad it knocks the stuff off my shelves.
Slabs not being removed: As per the resolutions the slabs had to be removed, it is fact that the developer tried to get out of doing this, but never presented formal plans.
Dust: When did I say anything about dust other then buildings were being improperly knocked down?
How about this? I get it that you want me to keep my mouth shut and not bring up things that could negatively affect our town , I get that you don't care about these things because they do not affect you, but your constant bantering of me is never going to accomplish anything. I bring up valid points and the surrounding neighbors agree, sometimes they chime in here, or sometimes they stop by and thank me. I will continue as I do with or without your approval, it makes no difference to me because I know what I am doing is right for our town.
I never once have said I want them to stop. I said I will not shop at CVS because i support our town's local businesses (skylands in this case) not corporate businesses trying to run family run businesses out of town.
I get it, you want to go go go, regardless of if things are done right or how they affect the neighborhood, but I have obviously brought up very good points that have made serious changes changes even our engineers did not catch.
towniejim,
Question for you
What is your real name?
What is you occupation?
What is you affiliation with the development?
Care to tell us, because it has become very apparent the majority of your posts are on topics that deal with Ray Rice as the developer.
It has also become obvious in your posts you could care less about the affect on our town, but have 100% concern about building and developer profit. This is not something any resident I have ever met would do or say. I somehow highly doubt you are in fact a resident.
I am on to you bud
Darrin,
You have spoken about this project with the utmost concerns of our town and neighborhood. Good projects take time and well thought out planning. Good contractors follow good plans. Bad contractors do what they want with concerns to their bottom line only. Being a "neighborhood watchdog" can sometimes feel like a thankless task. But a lot of your points at many meetings mean a lot to the true community members. I find it somewhat pathetic that the people who post "big" on HLife, aren't even at a meeting where it really counts or if they are there they are speechless. I wouldn't worry about towniejim comments about you, as I don't think they are accurate.
Darrin look at your posts as you told me to do when I started following this. My perspective is the Main Street needs help. Corporate stores on the Main Street are a good thing. They pay more taxes and yes they hire local people, which all help Hackettstown and you.
I've been in the Hackettstown area since 1972, most likely before you were born. I'm focused on a better Main Street and I believe this project can do it. What's going up looks much better than what was there before. My perspective is no more than that. We've become a nation of whiners frankly and against progress. Progress got the United States built and I hope in continues.
"We've become a nation of whiners frankly and against progress"
Well, I could not agree more about the whiners, but you have to understand my motives, I have no intention or want to "stop" the project as you keep trying to say. What I do what is the project done correctly, with no corners cut just because the developer wanted to save a buck. He knew what he was getting into when he bought the property, and if he didn't shame on him, there should of been zero surprises, he was looking to buy the property for years. But him "whining" (using your term here) about what he has to do, and trying to take cheaper alternatives to do the job does not constitute to being the town's problem in my book. And so far the town (with some public push back) has followed the agreed plans, which is a good thing. I do not believe in making acceptations to help the developer but potentially hurt the town.
It is my residence, nobody should have to deal with earth movement so bad pictures fall off walls, construction or not. Neighbors the next block over have felt them, can you imagine what goes on at my house? I am sure you can, you just don't care
As far as development hours, as I said, It clearly states what hours they can work. Breaking these rules makes me wonder what else is being broken
If you actually would take the time, or I think it is more the care, to realize things can still be done correctly. Sure it may cost the developer more, but that is in no way shape or form my concern, nor should it be yours, unless what I asked before is actually true.
Speaking of before I also noticed you ignored my questions ;-)
Nah darwin, you had the courage to introduce yourself to me, we got off to a rocky start, but I believe we somewhat can see eye to eye now. At least you care enough to come to meetings, unlike some who banter residents because of their concerns, but do not even show up to meetings, or claim to be someone they are not perhaps?
My background is in company management and have resided in the area for over 40 years. I stopped into the property twice while it was under demolition but don't think I spoke to any owner. That's it.
So who did you speak with when you stopped in twice?
Have you ever been to a town meeting, were do you get your info from?
what area do you reside?
I have been to meetings and spoke with a individual from Landmark development first time, don't remember name, however, he let me look inside the building. Second time was a contractor from Harrington. when they were taking down front of building, asked about the American Sawmill sign.
You seem to closely follow this post. Yes admittedly I am more concerned with the project then I would be others because it is directly next to my home and whatever they do will directly affect me and my way of life, but how can you not see that my concerns will also help the community? The majority of my concerns (I will admit I can nit pick after a rough day at work) I bring up are for the well being of this town and I think most who follow this post can see that. But you on the other case are always first to try to put me down, making claims that I want the project to stop, which is not the case at all.
I understand you want this project done because you have this plan that it would bring back Hackettstown, but something this big takes time, and with a clean up as big as this it needs to be done correctly. Constantly criticizing someone because of their valid concerns is not going to do anything, I am not quite sure what you hope to get out of that?
Can you give me a general idea of where you reside?
The interesting thing I find is that you have only posted to 6 other forums, once each.
You have posted to the knechel ford once and the dollar general twice, claiming you have met the owner and he is from long valley. But there is not much controversy on this project
You have posted to bergen tool forums many times.
The knechel ford/dollar general building is owned by Ray Rice, and so is the Bergen tool property.
Your interest in Ray Rice's properties but really nothing else interests me.
"The knechel ford/dollar general building is owned by Ray Rice"
When was that deed filed Darrin. As of now the public records continue to show the Knechel family still owns both of those buildings.
Here you go GC:
Use this site: https://www.searchiqs.com/njwar/Login.aspx
After logging in as a guest use search to find Jade Land Co
There are three notice of settlements: 3/30, 6/15, and 8/29 all 2015
Thanks Darrin - a final settlement of the mortgage 8/29 explains why it's not on line elsewhere yet.
The info that i found on a public record web site says that the CVS property is owned by CVS and that was as of May '15. The rest of the property there is owned by Jade. Not sure if this is true but i thought it was ALL Jade.
They subdivided the lot Dadof3, cvs bought the front parcel they are building on from Jade.
Oh, got info I forgot to share....CVS still does not have D.O.T approval
The thing I find interesting is if you read any one of towniejim's posts as if you were in the shoes of the developer, man would those shoes fit good!
Darrin, i completely under stand all of your concerns. For someone who has lived in and around this town for 40+ years i see how it has change 10 fold and not much of it has been for the good. Personally i feel if done correctly any retail and or commercial development is a ++ for the town but i am NOT in favor of apartments/town houses on that site.
I personally liked the idea of keeping residential with a residential area, and am not worried about the 108 number because I do not believe the full storm water analysis has been done on the site yet, and I will bet that more retention is going to be needed then originally shown. Also more ingress/egress is going to be needed. The first conceptual drawings showed only on main access from east stiger and a secondary access through the CVS parking lot. I know this won't fly, but these also were not real plans. The fun has just begun, for about the tenth time.....
What is your concerns with residential?
The way I see it, original ordinance allowed 99 apartments on top of commercial, so we were always getting the residential aspect, now with 66 town homes and 42 apartments, and one commercial building, at least there will be more stable ownership.
At the risk of sounding prejudice/racist i feel that residential apartments that close to down town will result in less desirable people moving in. Single family homes would be much better and less demand on the school system. The infra structure is being pushed to its limits now so adding 108 appartments is going to make it worse. Again this is my opinion.
Dadof3, your best place to voice your opinions would be at one of the public hearings on the property. Not just Htown Life. Public hearings put you on the record and in front of the decision makers. Your points are valid and might change people's votes.
I would but i am currently not a resident of Hackettstown. I am your neighbor to the west(Mansfield). Yes i know i could still voice my opinion but it will not hold as much water as a residents would.
It would be more help then two residents voicing opinions but getting steam rolled by the council and mayors agenda. I tried to bring up the load concern of 108 residential units in that area, but it really fell on deaf ears, because again, this is a fight for residents, and if residents do not show up to meetings, the boards assume everyone else is for their vote. Still if you look at it this way we got the "temporary" housing component down from 99 to 42. Well see what happens when they do a real traffic study to the area. It should make it interesting that there are two other approved large projects in town that are yet to be built.
It's pretty sad that this has gotten to a point that most residents feel the boards are going to do what they want anyways so do not feel the need to come to meetings.
dad 0f3 your comment about less desirable people is offensive and possibly racist. Is it a problem for you if some people cannot afford or do not want a single family house ? where should they go to live? Camden. ?
I dont really expect to change your opinion so please dont bother arguing with me on this site.
Darrin - "man would those shoes fit good" Not really, you're projecting Darrin. Certainly he has a different viewpoint but then so do Darwin & I. Just because he's spoken up I think you've taken it that he has to be contrary when that hasn't been the case. But you're way off when it comes to insinuating that's Ray Rice himself.
towniejim - Give Darrin a break. I understand your original message when you say "from the beginning". I wasn't sure either if the thoughts were like the ridiculous obstructionists first discussion. But at least with some guidance in constructive directions Darrin has really helped bring the water retention issue to light. Plus all of the constant contact with the town engineer has been greatly effective. Even if the two of you disagree on the size of what's going on, building but building it right is something you *are* on the same page about.
PS. Darrin when it comes to the "do what they want anyway" philosophies it's the FUD obstruction kind or person not showing that just wants to tear it all down anyway. It's wouldn't help an iota.
PSS. Two other projects are actually the whole point of why the number of units isn't a big deal. One hundred is only looking bad as a total of 600. Which do you want to send your efforts on? The smallest one that doesn't cause a big issue with the services, or the biggest one that could break the camel's back if let grow? Will you be fighting just as hard about Princess Towers??
Maybe it's too many postscripts by now, but, ;-)
Dadof3 - FUD. The pricing, size, type, and cost of these units are at all levels that aren't going to just have the first person off the street come in. Townhouses, not apartments. Probably about 1/2 not even entry level. Feel free to express any concerns you like, but it doesn't match with what's proposed.
GC- thank you for allowing me to express my CONCERNS on a public form. Like i said above residential units that close to the center of town. I DID NOT say there should no affordable housing built. Build all you want but not in the center of town.
GC, "Not really, you're projecting Darrin. Certainly he has a different viewpoint but then so do Darwin & I. Just because he's spoken up I think you've taken it that he has to be contrary when that hasn't been the case. But you're way off when it comes to insinuating that's Ray Rice himself."
Well, he has not proven other wise, early on I wanted to meet up, as I prefer to talk out differences in person, rather then getting into a argument on a forum. He has also posted some contradicting information. I am not insinuating anything, I just find it suspicious that his viewpoint is different then anyone I have talked to in the neighborhood other then people somehow working for the developer. Just want more info, that's all, will I get it, probably not.
Do you know who he is, can you personally confirm he does not work for the developer?
I aprreciate your positive outlook on some of the topics I have brought up, I know many things have changed because of things brought up that should most certainly help what would of happened.
GC "Two other projects are actually the whole point of why the number of units isn't a big deal. One hundred is only looking bad as a total of 600. Which do you want to send your efforts on? The smallest one that doesn't cause a big issue with the services, or the biggest one that could break the camel's back if let grow? Will you be fighting just as hard about Princess Towers??"
It is my understanding that the princess towers have been approved for quite some time. Secondly, different location. The princess towers are on a mostly undeveloped back road whereas the Bergen project will be funneling cars into a already jammed part of town.
GC I am happy to admit that Darrin has done a good job on the drainage issue for his neighborhood. I also agree with Darrin on more units being townhouses that would fit better into the neighborhood. And yes I want the project built right and from the architecture I saw in the BID offices awhile back it looks nice.
I also think that most people in the community are excited to see the site developed, if live in the immediate area maybe not , maybe yes. However, in the end it's about everyone in the town.
So now you maybe don't live in the immediate area? Before you said you did live in the immediate area.
"architecture I saw in the BID offices awhile back it looks nice." what did you see? The townhome concept were just approved last week, and were a complete site intention change, at that time (last week) they had nothing more then rough sketches of how to fit 108 units on 6 build-able acres, not quite sure what you "saw"?
Not sure Darrin it was some type of overall plan that showed everything, including CVS. It showed elevations of the building.
As of right now we are awaiting plans for the remainder of the site, so I am sure what you saw is changing since the new ordinance.
the BID office has had drawings for the site from the very beginning. yes they are out dated since the townhouses are now replacing the office building. but if gives you an idea what CVS and Phase 2 will look like. Phase 3 is now changing. And perhaps Phase2 as well
Darwin, I think you are mistaken, or maybe I am....
I think phase two is now the townhomes, and will be utilizing the remaining buildable property, so no phase 3....correct?
I was under the impression that phase 2 is still retail with apartments above and phase 3 was now townhomes instead of office building. I didn't see the latest drawings
Oh god no!
That would be 207 units, that be crazy!!
From my understanding, the 66 townhomes and 42 apartments, along with one commercial building will finish out the project at Bergen tool
Lets see those plans!
My understanding is Phase 2 should include 42 apartments above retail around the CVS property and 66 townhouses behind the apartments in the center of the Jade property and 3 acres of open recreational space that will be for public usage and will be maintained by the townhouse property association. There will also be some area for storm water management(retention pond) that will not be included in the 3 acres of open space.
The original plans had an office building with ground level parking under the building. That was the Phase 3 of the original plan. That was taken out of the plan and replaced with the townhouses.
that was my understanding as well Morp. the overall plan doesn't look like it is dramatically changing, still going to be CVS and Retail. now Townhouses instead of a 3 story office building.
So we were saying the same thing darwin, you just might of had your numbers mixed up. There will not be as much retail as before, and apartments are cut in half. There is no phase 3 per say, it will all be done in this next phase So phase 2 is the one that drastically changed and phase 3 is eliminated.
Lets see those plans!
I'm curious about parking for the retail portion of apartments above retail. Will there be separate parking areas for their employees and customers? If not, are they to share the parking at CVS? This can be an issue if CVS doesn't agree to it. I've seen it happen with Shop-Rite Liquors. They sent out letters to the businesses across the street telling them it was private property and the parking was for their and the other businesses in the strip mall customers and employees only. Before that property was redeveloped, you could park on West Stiger St and when the town approved the redevelopment they made West Stiger St a "No Parking" zone and told the existing businesses that they would be able to park in the Shop-Rite lot. Years went by and the property owner did what he wanted to with their property(as they should be). Not sure if there was a formal agreement with the town or what. But just because there is a parking lot does mean it's public property. So that being said, I hope that the planning will look to make sure there will be some agreement made or ample parking for those retail businesses.
Where did I give #s? I said it was still going to be retail with apartments above. Which it sounds like it will be.
Darrin,
Ray Rice is just a name; I think the ownership will be Jade Hackettstown Associates llc although other names are tossed about. His linkedin has it as Jade Land Development llc founded in 1992 and specializing in redevelopment of distressed areas. There's also Jade Land Company founded in some other year too. Another of the Jades filed for incorporation in 2013. Located at 55 Fairview Avenue, Long Valley. Jade basically does not exist in the normal sense of a company; there is no history, no reputation, no real track records. Ray on the other hand did a couple of decade stints at a couple of real estate companies in land brokering. In 2014, he was on the board of HRMC FOUNDATION, not HRMC, as the managing member of Jade Partners, yet another Jade.
He might have another office in Patchogue NY.
We shall call it The Cabal.
"So we were saying the same thing darwin, you just might of had your numbers mixed up."
where did I give #s? I just said it will be retail with apartments which it still is and instead of a 3 story office building it will be townhouses
You know morph, you bring up a very good point, sorry it sorta went overlooked.
It seems they will need to have separate parking for residents and for the businesses, I wounder how they will go about enforcing it so that residents are not parking in commercial spots and the same vice versa, or are we just setting ourselves up to have to hire another officer to patrol their parking issues? We have seen it happen before, verbal "agreements" mean nothing. This should be brought up to the planning board.
Some meeting updates:
Monday October 26th, at 11AM there is a preconstruction meeting for CVS at the municipal building. It is for residents that may or will be affected by the construction and road changes.
Also,
Tuesday October 27th at 7:30 planning board meeting:
6. Case #15-03, Jade Hackettstown, LLC Informal
Seems like Phase 2 (the town homes and apartments) are on the agenda for something informal, may be interesting to come to that one.
I plan on attending both.
Interesting that Jade has some activity on the site today. That must mean that there is a planning board meeting coming up soon. LOL
I finally got a chance to talk to my neighbors the other day and they informed me that they too were complaining about the vibrations and had multiple calls into the town about it. They actually have damage to their home in the form of fresh cracks in their drywall. My contractor noticed a crack in my foundation, and talking to my other neighbor, he has a door way that has moved and is now hard to open.
Since my last talk with the town engineer, where I was told they would be installing a seismography, the vibrations have ceased, but something is going to need to be done about these damages, it very obviously was not just me.
So an update from the preconstruction meeting for CVS:
The meeting was held even though CVS still does not have D.O.T approval, this is expected to be acquired at the November 5th D.O.T meeting in Trenton, so that is why the meeting was held. After approval, CVS plans on immediately starting road work on East Stiger, starting with the new box culvert, as well as moving the utility lines. It was a great opportunity for the residents of this road to go, because there were many access concerns that were brought up since they will be majorly digging down the current road. Currently CVS’s extension runs out December 2015, and they feel they are going to have to yet again extend that permit.
There was some good news for neighbors, as well as bad news. The good news is, they will not be taking out our plants and trees in the front of our homes, but instead will be transplanting them. Also they must leave the road so it is always accessible to the residents of this street, although will most likely be closed to through traffic during this time of construction. They will still be leaving it open for garbage pickup, leaf pickup, etc. Now for the goodish/bad news. It was brought to the attention of the town engineer about the ground movement which has been presumed to cause damage to three homes over here (that I know of). It was also found that CVS was improperly sizing their layers of compaction, I can only assume to hurry things along. CVS was supposed to be doing 3-4 inch layers between compaction, they were doing 12 inches, and the town engineer said this is why they were causing so much ground disturbance.
Moving forward, seismographs must be installed, and anything over 2 inches per second is considered unfavorable. The town engineer also recommended that CVS do pre construction home inspections with video and pictures in case damage does occur, not sure if that is to protect CVS or the residents. The developer has also claimed to have since removed the roller that was causing this from the site.
The bad part is, the town engineer’s response to the three damaged homes was that he did not know the conditions of our homes prior, so how could we prove the damage was caused by the vibrations. He didn't even offer to come look at this damage. Real nice to know after giving someone notice about the effects on the homes of this compacting, and having the developer basically (from what I gather) ignore the town engineer and continue for 2 1/2 months.
I, as well as I am going to recommend to my neighbors, taking more aggressive measures from now on when it comes to this, police reports will have to be filed if it starts again, since the town’s stance on this issue is obviously not too strong. I did not want to do this, but now that I see our town is not going to stand behind the residents if damage is done, we must obviously protect ourselves.
I would think that it would be a good faith move for CVS's developer to step up to the plate and do the home inspections for any of those who claimed damages and take care of any damages that might appear from here forward.
Having been at the meeting, I can understand that the town engineer's answer to your question was a bit of knee jerk reaction and the developer really should have spoke up at that moment. The town engineer even gave the developer the opportunity during the discussion but the developer just mumbled(with some coaxing from the town engineer) that he would have his home office look into it. I think the town engineer's point was that those damages would fall on the developer and not the town anyway.
I did ask about the issue and concern of the storm water run off and they seemed to think it should not be a problem as they have capacity for underground storage and have an area for a retaining pond on Jade's property if need be. I am concerned that the CVS property has been elevated and the drains have not yet been hooked up to the storm drains(due to waiting on the State permit). Plus luckily, we have not really had a big rain since the construction. We will have to see what happens come the next big storm. Or maybe we'll get lucky and the big storms won't come until after the construction is completed.
Finally, I hope to see and hear from some of the Htown Lifers tonight at the planning board meeting. Jade is on the agenda for an informal meeting on Phase 2 of their property. Now is the time to bring your opinions and suggestions to the meeting.
You are very correct morp, about it not falling on the town. But it is not reasonable to give that answer when multiple neighbors were reporting problems for 2 1/2 months before the developer finally stopped doing what was causing the ground movements.
It is also not reasonable since the problem was identified to be the developer not following their plan to layer in 3-4 inch increments and were instead layering in 12 inch increments, I assume rushing the job but putting the residents at risk to do it, As well as using a roller that was too big for the job throughout these complaints.
There needs to be someone who residents can contact and put things like this to a stop BEFORE damage is done to the homes, this was my concern all along, and look what happened, despite people on HL saying I was just "complaining to complain"
As for the meeting tonight, this issue will be put on public record.
Secondly, yes, it is a informal for Phase two and the 108 residential units. 7:30 at the municipal building, definitely time for anyone concerned about the remainder of the property to come.
Not impressed with that first, is it fake, brick wall.... Hope the trim work spices it up a bit.
Yeah, Darrin, when I saw your first post, I thought --- good luck with that.
But it seems you have done a lot at least to set the stage going forward and the fact it could be happening is on the record. Folks, start using those smart phones to snap some pictures soon..... Good luck and if you go for damages, either go first and they make jump to shut you up or join forces and you will probably get a more harmonious outcome. Again, best luck.
Darrin---
"There needs to be someone who residents can contact and put things like this to a stop BEFORE damage is done to the homes, this was my concern all along, and look what happened, despite people on HL saying I was just "complaining to complain""
Companies only respond to money and liability. Have a lawyer draft up a nice letter inquiring about their stance on damage that appears to be a result of them not following the engineers plan. Have the lawyer throw a couple facts in there about them using the wrong equipment (which they admit was the wrong equipment) and not following the engineering plan designed to minimize damage (which they have admitted to at the town meeting).
Complaining to the town (who it seems wants this to happen) won't get them to do anything, you've got to make it their problem. The next time a book falls off the shelf have the lawyer file for a TRO to stop work on the site because they continue to disregard the engineers plans... I guarantee that'll get things moving (in one direction or the other).
It's sad that you would have to take this on by yourself, but nobody out there but you represents your interests first and foremost (unless you're paying them to). The town obviously wants this to happen, so they won't be much help other than keeping things at the bare minimum.
Brendan Anyone notice how high they raised the ground level where the old buildings use to stand? I would think that would really change the drainage of the property and the areas around that property.
Also, the CVS property will be pretty well elevated too. Look at where the new manhole cover is.
Exactly what I have been saying morp, but nobody wanted to listen. The property that once caught flood water in this area will no longer be there, and will now push that water toward the homes, if the new system is not engineered correctly the homes in this area are in big trouble.
The interesting thing is, it is my understanding that the town engineer, last I checked, requested plans for the work for phase two (they are burying the crushed concrete and brick), but had not received any plans for the ground work they are doing, yet seems to be allowing it to continue, I would of thought he would put a stop work order on it until he received the plans he requested. I do not think that when CVS did the flood survey, it included these changes that are currently being made to phase 2, so I am not quite sure what that does to the conditions on site with runoff.
2 topic on the agenda dealing with phase 2:
HACKETTSTOWN PLANNING BOARD
Hackettstown, New Jersey 07840
215 Stiger Street
TO: ALL MEMBERS OF THE HACKETTSTOWN PLANNING BOARD
RE: NOVEMBER 24, 2015 MEETING
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Hackettstown Planning Board will be held
Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 7:30 PM in the Municipal Building, 215 Stiger Street,
Hackettstown, New Jersey.
3. Pledge of Allegiance
4. Approval of minutes – October 27, 2015
5. Resolutions – None
6. Case #15-03, Jade Hackettstown, LLC Discussion Continuation
7. Consideration of Proposed Ordinance No. 2015-17, Amending Section 500
(“General Provisions and Design Standards”) of the Town Land Use Ordinance
by Adding New Subsection 526 (“Soil Remediation”)
FORMAL ACTION MAY OR MAY NOT BE TAKEN
"No construction work, including delivery or removal of construction materials, shall be done on Sundays and/or legal holidays."
That is a direct quote from the resolutions CVS agreed to.....woken up this Sunday morning by construction work occurring. This town better start doing something, otherwise what is the point of even having rules?
Email sent to Mayor, email and phone call to Town Engineer, lets see if they actually do something about it
when people constantly complain..their words start sounding like a gong and usually get ignored..good luck Darrin
Darrin: JADE is behind a proposal to build a development + municipal pool/community center building in Long Valley on property owned by the township (Washington twp, Morris). All the goings on related to the Bergen Tool Project should be a wake up call to LV residents to pay attention to the project as it moves forward (if it does). So, thank you for all you do.
OnTheEdge Brad, the issue was quickly resolved as well as a police incident report was filed. The mayor drove by the site herself and confirmed work that was not suppose to be happening was occurring. I speak with words of fact and wisdom rather then complaints, most in the town that know me personally can tell you that. The way things are portrayed in text does not represent the time and effort a person puts in to protect his neighborhood.
I hope to see the developer fined for these actions since this is the third (that I know of) incident where they completely disregarded the written rules just regarding working hours.
When they disregarded the engineer's compacting plans, neighbors homes were damaged. Enough is enough already, this has nothing to do with complaining, it is reality and not just sitting around taking it in the a** from a developer.
I passed by at 9:55, and saw H'town police on the scene. All workers cars were gone when I passed by again at 11:00.
Ms Fishy Its sad that developers cannot follow simple rules and it has to come down to getting the police involved, but this is not the first incident, letting the vibrations go with just emails to the town engineer and mayor ended up in homes being damaged. My only hope is that by doing this they will respect the rules set forth by the town more.
They are probably trying to hit bonus dollars for completing project early. Very common with this big box projects.
CraftBeerBob Its too bad people like Darrin have to spoil things for the workers..They could really use the bonus at Christmas..but alas rules must be followed
I would rather see them work on Sundays then go any longer then they have to but who am I? Besides rain has put off some work days. Gett'er done asap. ;)
I am sure you would, because the work doesn't wake you up on Saturday and Sunday morning. And FYI, they worked through the rain. Personally, it's in no way our problem. They should be following the rules set forth by the town, just like we as residents are required to follow the rules set forth by the town.
If we allow them to break the scheduling rules, what else should we allow them to break? might as well make a list now, heck why even have rules? Rules are rules, and all must follow them, especially on a project being built in a residential neighborhood, these rules are made to protect the neighbors, it is obvious the neighbors not affected by it wouldn't care, which seems to be most speaking about this situation. Work and machines start 6:30 every day during the week as well as Saturday, and that is enough to deal with, the Sunday limitation is a well needed limitation IMHO.
All other issues anyone has aside, I drove by the site today, and find it to be a million times better looking than the old dilapidated buildings that were there for far too long.
maja Darrin, No I don't have to deal with the noise there. But I do deal with plenty of noise in my neighborhood. Especially during the building period. Dukes starts mowing lawns at 7am, my neighbor blows his lawn every Saturday and Sunday for about 6 hrs. (even in the summer) Should we stop all of them also! Its a rule but not one that is going to kill anyone for sure. Its a temporary inconvenience.
Like I said I would rather them get this done ASAP then complain about a Sunday work day. I am pretty sure everyone can live thru it. IMO
Well aparently the town doesnt agree, because they most certainly took if VERY seriously. Maybe it has more to do with saftey? Idk.
Mowing your lawn at 7am is just plain rude, and blowing your lawn both Saturday and Sunday for 6 hours both days is unbelievable, or may be your neighbor needs a better hobby?
Either way, The thought that we should allow a developer to disregard rules so they can get their building done sooner is just plain ridiculous. Why don't we all disregard rules? Following rules set forth by the town is really a no discussion topic. Its like have a discussion on if we should all be allowed to break the speed limit because we have to get to work to get our job done...........
You're exactly in the right with this one, Darrin. The ordinance was put in place for a reason.
I don't think its asking too much for the residents in that area to get 1 day off a week from the construction. There is a reason the ordinance is in place and it should be followed. hope the developer gets fined. Good job by the mayor to put a stop to it on Sunday
Despite all the complaining at the end of the day the building looks great. The sooner it's finished the better it will be for the Main Street, nearby residents and the town.
Don't you mean despite the rule breaking towniejim?
Reporting direct violations of a contractor agreement is not complaining, it is reporting.
towniejim, when would you like to meet up? I would love to discuss in person.
Planning Board Meeting Tonight.
It would be a good thing to see those who comment on H'town Life to show up and share their comments and concerns with the Planning Board.
I can guess of at least two concerned community citizens who will be there. Right, Darrin?
This would be a good one to voice your concerns on this topic.
Tonight's meeting will be important. Phase 2 initial drawings should be presented. Maybe. Who knows with these guys. As well as the issue about the open space and fencing vs complete cleanup of any contaminated soil.
I'll be there
Huge win for the town! There will be absolutely no fencing in the open space, as well as whatever trees can be saved will be saved! The new plans show a full 3 acres of open usable space.This is great news!
A huge thank you to our planning board and town officials, as well as the residents, all who stayed vigilant insuring our town got what was right!
They are estimating to have final site plans ready for the January 2016 meeting.
Drove by last weekend and it looks good. Hopefully it can be a catalyst for the Western part of town...
iJay Special thanks to the HACKETTSTOWN PLANNING BOARD and the people who have been dedicated to the Bergen Tool Project.
The town people and Planning Board are looking after the better of the town.
I wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving.
God Bless and keep up the good work.
Charlie
So I heard talk that CVS still did not get D.O.T approval, despite being utterly sure they were going to get it in the beginning of November. I wonder what the hold up is?
Too bad the D.O.T meetings are in Trenton or I would be able to go, but that is a heck of a haul.
The application has been in D.O.T's hands since March 2014 CBB, at least that's when CVS claimed to have submitted the D.O.T application, and then asked the town to proceed with building without D.O.T approval.
CVS workers on site on a Sunday yet again, well at this point it is blatantly ignoring the rules in place, this is now the second Sunday occurrence, and the fourth scheduling ignorance.
The town better fine the developer!
Also worth noting that the Mayor noticed the work going on first at 10:45, and despite the Mayor reaching out, as well as the town engineer reaching out to the contractor work still continued, and is still continuing as of 5:15pm
When I had emailed the town engineer and Mayor first at 3pm, they were already aware of the situation and were trying to stop it
My guess is they would rather pay the fine. It means more to them to get the project done and hit there bonus.
Kind of like when the town told van not to cut down the trees that bordered Kenwood when he built his new development off 57. Cut them all down anyway. Developers play by their own rules unless the fine is enough to make it not cost effective to so blatantly disregard the town's wishes..
A couple of strategically placed turtles of the right kind will stop any construction site!!.
And like playing by one's own rules is something new? Just look at the unions in this state with what they have done; makes a little noise on a few Sundays seem like a grain of sand on a beach...
Last week I was traveling behind a white vehicle making a left from E. Stiger onto Man Street, when one of the construction guys from the CVS site(he had the right of way crossing in the crosswalk) was nearly hit by the vehicle in front of me.He jumped back and saved himself..My son was crossing in the same spot last week and also was almost hit in broad daylight..For the last several years I have complained about potential accidents at this site..Personally, I saw a Mom and 4 year old daughter get hit here, and I have had near misses several times myself when I did not have my vehicle on the road, and was crossing the street..Let the town be notified that the intersection is NOT safe!!! Now that CVS will be opening I can only imagine how the influx of traffic will affect those crossing this dangerous intersection..Accountability!!!!!
I would not doubt that money is being forked over for Sunday work. Just not in the form of a fine. In construction, wads of cash have been known to quiet people. Otherwise, why not send police over to clear them out? Easy enough to do. Truth is, you might as well let them finish and hopefully lower your stress level.
Looking at this intersection kay, I think the majority of it has to do with limited sight distance. It is not wide open like other intersections where you can see down the sidewalk when you are pulling up to it. This is even more of a hazard due to the construction fencing, as well as the panel that is on the CVS side of the property, making it very hard to see pedestrians, especially one who come out into the road without stopping and looking first. I would hope that when construction is complete this intersection has a better sight distance. But you are 100% correct that they will be adding even more traffic to this intersection. Phase two currently shows the main, and really only entrance/exit (without going through a parking lot) being East Stiger, this will make this problem ever worse. Come to a planning board meeting and voice your concern, that's where you will be heard.
"Just look at the unions in this state with what they have done" that wakes Darrin up early in the morning?
You guys are missing the big picture, if CVS is going to blatently ignore rules and police for that matter, what else are they not doing or ignoring? Are the drainage pipes the right size? In the right place? The point I am trying to make is It opens a whole door of doubt and distrust. Especially since they completly ignored both the mayor and the town engineer.
Put a stop work order on the job and fine them. They shouldent be building prior to D.O.T approval anyways, and the town did them a favor to allow this. .... time to take that favor away.
I cannot stand developers who walk all over towns, and then half the people say just let them do it?????? Just let em break rules....got it
Didn't the Hackettstown police shut the previous work on a Sunday couple of weeks ago? Did this Sunday's contractor ignore the Mayor AND police? Something's not right if that is the case.
Darrin: received your message, thank you.
Ontheedge....it was literally just last Sunday. I did not involve the police this time, as i wanted to see if the mayor and town engineer had the power to stop the project.....obviously not!
I am very interested in seeing what will be done about this.
Darrin you make a number of statements on this and perhaps your not being responded to because you've been complaining about this project since it's inception. Now I happen to agree with you on the hours and when work can be performed. You obviously are significantly impacted by this and we all get it. However, the DOT application and the insinuation that the drainage pipes aren't sized correctly are dirty pool.
Why would a major corporation like CVS expose itself to under engineering the job and having to correct it in the future. It just doesn't make any sense. Regarding the DOT application from everything you've described it sounds like CVS is at risk on this and would put itself in a compromised position if it isn't obtained. I am guessing somebody at CVS made a educated decision to proceed with this risk.
You bought up some good points, however, I also think some of the complaining is just to complain.
townijim, where did I say I was not getting responses? I have absolutely no issue getting very fast responses from our Mayor are well as our town engineer. Now it seems like you are the one spreading falsities!
Your statement about me insinuating things is unjust in the fact that I was very clearly making a point, as well as asking questions (notice the question marks????). It is a very simple logic. If the developer cannot follow the small simple rules, what makes anyone believe they would follow the big ones?
TJ states "Why would a major corporation like CVS expose itself to under engineering the job and having to correct it in the future. "
IDK, you tell me? Why would a corporation like CVS ignore the fact that a police report was filed just last Sunday, and do the same exact thing the next Sunday?
TJ states "I also think some of the complaining is just to complain."
Care to point any of that out? Bet you can't!
Again I ask, when would you like to meet up? I would love to discuss in person? I would love to know your affiliation with the project, I can bet it is more then you are telling us on here! Your statements also sound so much like someone I have met before, probably why you will not meet up.
The search function on this forum does not lie, and it is very easy to see that the majority of your posts are on topics that this very developer is involved with. Yes you have a handful of singular posts to other topics, but none that you have returned to as much as these topics. Maybe it is just a coincidence? I think not
TJ, I would love to have a educated discussion about the project with you, but the soul purpose of every post you have made is another attempt to insult me. If you would like to discuss the project as opposed to personal differences, I am all for it
No problem Darrin, I will contact you directly. However, I assure you we have never meet. Feel free to pm me.
I have contacted you (many times actually) in the past, they went unanswered.
Looking forward to finally meeting. I feel that if we can actually get some of our personal differences aside we can have a conversation that would actually help our town. Too much time is spent insulting and that has absolutely no positive productivity on this topic.
I will be awaiting your contact.
"The search function on this forum does not lie." If that's the barometer then Darrin must be a Rebel working for Walgreens and donating all his free time to the NRA. TJ posts on all sorts of topics and has always been more active on those things effecting Main Street in general, not just CVS.
"If the developer cannot follow the small simple rules, what makes anyone believe they would follow the big ones?" Of course this 'broken windows" sort of logic is faulty on so many levels that somehow working off-hours leads to putting the wrong-sized drainage pipes in the wrong places. The possibility exists but doubtful that working off-hours against a minor fine leads to greater transgressions.
And to blame CVS by anyone might be wrong. Not sure how much control CVS actually has over builder and developer actions nor what day-to-day building responsibility they really own. Really don't expect CVS to be inspecting the pipes.
I think you're right Darrin to pursue wrongdoing and continue surveillance but just not sure working off-hours leads to greater infractions.
Sure hope they don't have a "honk if you want service" at the drive-through :>)
Question: I know you have answered this but what happens to Stiger and First Street? Will that intersection remain?
I could absolutly be incorrect SD, and I would be the first to admit it if someone could prove otherwise, But Here is what I am seeing
Fyi, Dollar General as well as Knechel Ford project is owned by the same developer as bergen tool as far as I know
As far as the off hours working CVS as well as the contractor were both notified sure could be the contractor doing the wrongdoing but that reflects on CVS because i would think CVS has control of the contractors working on their property.
I do realise it.is a far fetched analogy, but i am taking into account the police removed the workers just last Sunday for the same thing.
As far as the intersection, it will be made bigger, a exit from CVS will come out there, and it will include a 4 way stop, to my memory
Dollar General and Knechel Ford are not owned by the same developer. Wasn't even the same contractor.
Maybe everyone should just go right to the Town Hall and get ALL the facts straight. If the town told them they cannot work on Sundays but did not give them circumstances if they did then how can they fine them. Jumping the gun and ASSUMING they will do other major things wrong is well you know what happens when you ASS-U-ME!
Like I said before lets get this project done and done right. Fighting over when they can work is a mute point.
Funny I have a close friend that lives very near there and they never hear much at all now. BUT why they do they know its temporary.
Christine.........Knechel Ford became Dollar General, it was purchased from the Knechel family as Knechel Ford and turned into dollar general....by the same owner as the bergen tool site.....The owner of the bergen tool site sold a chunk of the bergen property to CVS and he continues to own the remainder of the property.....is there something I am missing? I have posted many links where you can find this info straight from the warren county clerk's office, so my facts are spot on, maybe you should check yours?
Nobody is fighting over when they CAN work, because we know they CANNOT work on sunday....And as i said, there is no assuming, it was a general analogy.
Honestly I feel your statement that we should allow them to break the rules they agreed to so they can hurry up and finish the job is just plain ridiculous....they do not even have D.O.T approval yet. Have you taken the time to read the developers agreement? I can bet you haven't
That is very funny Christine, because I know everyone I would consider as living close to the site, and nobody knows you. I am sure what you consider as living close is much different then I would though.
Darrin was not responding only to you! This person I speak of doesn't even talk to you. Said you never approached them EVER! I am just relaying what they told me. Its not for you to take personally. I find it kind of odd that you ask everyone if they know me. Kind of creepy actually.
Show me your link! You have posted so much on this thread its hard to decipher what is what. I have read the developers agreement. No where does it said they will be fined if they work on Sunday. That was my point!
I am not arguing with you I am just giving you my point of view. Don't like it don't read it or respond with your accusations of what I have or have not done.
Don't give yourself too much credit, because that is not at all how your name comes up. Also, i do not go door to door soliciting info, so unless they have come to me, like many in my area do, i wouldent know them.
Okay, you have read the agreement, so you do know that is says they are not suppose to work on Sundays and holidays, very clearly actually. I am sure if they break this agreement it falls on the town what to do, i would think just because it does not say does not mean you do nothing.
You can use the HL search or google for the warren county clearks office website and very easily find the info yourself. I also posted it on the dollar general site.
Why soulden't i respond? This is a open forum, and is what you do as well to my posts. Discussions are healthy, look already you learned of a few property owners you were mistaken about.
I dunno Darrin. After witnessing your pursuit of some we-time with towniejim, creepy does seem to be the word :>)
Yeah i am a creep SD...whatever....lol
In my own experience I have found that the majority of people that disagree in text get a better understanding when you meet in person. Text never protrays anything right it seems, so I have always been open to meeting anyone who disagrees or would just generally like to meet.
Where did I say I am taking credit? Soo Darrin what are you saying that people come to you and then you ask them if they know me? That's even more creepier. I really would feel uncomfortable meeting you in person at this point. I can do my own research and keep up on this site on my own but when I see you spewing info or making assumptions I feel the need to speak up. Just like you feel the need to inform the public of every move that is going on in the construction site.
Sorry I am not going to search over 600 posts to find a link you posted. The info I read is not the same developer as Bergen Tool. Your advice on the search did not turn up anything. Its not on the Dollar General thread either BUT you do claim you have "seen it written". I will agree thought my info may be more current.
Also the agreement does say what you claim I already said that BUT just because it says that doesn't mean they should be fined either. Its up to the town and it seems they want the project done so they are not worrying so much on the days they work. Maybe! Maybe not! Only the town knows!
I guess the better thing to say would of been don't flatter yourself. I most certainly do not run around asking people if they knew who you are, why in the world would I do that? Most of the other residents I speak with closely follow this site and use if for a source of info. They have seen your posts before and have made comments to me about your posts and asking if I knew who you were. Don't feel too special though, I have been asked the same about townjim and darwin.
You apparently cannot do your own research I told you the name of the site, and where to find it, and you still need help....here (it pops right up in google when you search what i told you to):
http://www.searchiqs.com/warren.html
Search Jade Land
Gives you this pictured-----notice of settlement for knechel ford, as well as mortgages for Bergen tool, and other ones. Public record does not lie Christine.
Christine, as far as the town caring about what days they work, it was brought up at the last town council meeting, and they took it VERY seriously, and it was their idea to fine the developer, but you wouldn't know that because you were not there now would you.
You seem to just hop into this conversation whenever you feel fit and cause the whole situation to have to take steps back just because you do not want to read previous posts, or do your own research. All this info has been posted, really either follow the thread or don't, don;t come in the middle of something and ask everyone to back track and re explain simply because you do not want to read back.
Also, my fault, it was not dollar general, this very info was posted here October 12th......but google did work, maybe you did not get that far?
Roywhite Not sure what site you gave me as it is not working right now from my computer. I am on a different site and it is not up to date with what you show.
I won't flatter myself trust me! But I have lived in this town my whole life and know many people (including many of your relatives) and they all cannot wait for this site to be done and to get rid of this eye sore. I get asked who you are also. You really don't want to know what they say about your postings. They do however mention other posters statements and how they come off more proper. One that comes to mind is Morp and Towniejim. I have said this before and will say it again. Its all how you say things. You have a way of making accusations and assumptions. You did it again above, talking about putting the right pipes in, we cant trust them anymore. IMO that's putting fuel in a fire.
Continue on but I still predict this site will continue to be built up and done the correct way with or without your complaints.
Hey Guys - take a breath! If it's at all possible - step back and look at the big picture.
Whether or not you like Darrin's posts - he undeniably has kept close watch on developments with this project, and to the best of his ability, continually posted updated information, and responded to comments. Also, he has always invited people to come to public meetings and seek him out, or private message.
As for the feelings of getting this job done already, and get rid of that eyesore, that attitude really turns a blind eye to the issues that have perpetuated from the beginning.
I have lived in this area for over 40 years, and can assure you that a developer who behaves as this one has, also wants to wrap it up and get out. And when it looks all new and shiny, and then there is flooding, or homeowners discover damage to their homes, those developers and their attorneys will either be unreachable, or tie folks up with legal strategies. Mount Olive is a perfect example.
Darrin, good for you for sticking to your guns. If there are major problems later, I won't be surprised if people blame you for not doing enough! ;-)
Enough with the drama, and lets discuss the project
What site are you using?
I have posted everything I possibly can other then individual screen shots showing the mortgages, deeds, and settlements with names on them, and this is direct though warren county clerk's website, the link was posted above and has always worked for me, you have to log in as a guest and then perform the search
I already informed you and everyone else that what I said about the pipes was a analogy and nothing more, not quite sure why you keep bringing it up.
I too predict the site will be built up and done correctly, but I strongly feel a project like this is hugely benefited from the public's input as well as support (help).
Darrin while you have raised some legitimate points most of your posts always presume the worst with respect to the towns intentions , the developers and those who might have a different view point than yours. They include a excessive amount of innuendo, the latest that the pipes are sized wrong and will lead to problems. Past one's include the town rolling over for the developer, now you think the town is doing the right thing with respect to work that shouldn't be occurring.
How about being more objective and looking at fine building CVS is putting up. It's a much better visual than the previous derelict structures on the property and hopefully the balance of the project is developed with similar finishes and architecture. Ease off on Christine she's entitled to her viewpoint and confrontational tactics don't always lead to the best outcome.
Guys, how many times do I have to say the pipes was just a analogy...come on!
You guys are acting like I said they are putting in the wrong pipes, which i did NOT!
There is nothing wrong with presuming the worst all while hoping for the best. I keep a close eye on things, and as you can see have found a few things being done wrong, many of which have been posted here. And all which the town has delt with and attempted to correct.
In the past the town has rolled over for the developer, there really is no push of truth there. The ordinance for the property has been changed how many times? The front building came down with what in return? CVS is allowed to build prior to D.O.T for what? etc, the list goes on
And just recently the developer rolled for the town, and is giving the town what they are asking for in the open space, I posted that as a huge win for the town. Maybe the payoff for the town rolling on the other topics?
Towniejim, I am still awaiting your PM
Darrin - as much as I respect what your cause is. I feel the need to interject here. All of these folks agree with your cause and your passion, no one is fighting against that. What they are saying to you in the most politically correct way they can is that they are tired of hearing from you on the trivial matters. That is my guess anyway, I could be way off but its over Johnny. Its getting built no matter what you do/say. Does not mean I agree with it, but just stating the obvious at this point.
CBB
CBB, you could be correct, but I take into account previous history with these two going on years now, and the number of posters posting on here far outweighs the two naysayers
Many many other people used this forum for a source of info, I have people thank me all the time. I am not going to stop posting just because two people, who always seems to randomly jump in without following the post don't like it, sorry, not happening. I try my hardest to put whatever information I have out there for whoever wants to read it. If you do not like it just don't read it....it's pretty simple.
So, if trivial is the problem. who decides whats trivial and what is not? I am not quite sure what someone across town thinks is trivial would be trivial for someone who lives next to the project. I try my hardest to put whatever information I have out there for whoever wants to read it, all while attempting to decipher what is rumor and what is fact, sometimes I have to ask and let the people decide. If you do not like it just don't read it....it's pretty simple.
And also, as for the project, really this is just the beginning, we are expecting to finally see plans for the remainder of the property in January.
CBB, I am not trying to argue with you, just trying to explain why I provide anyone who chooses to read this with whatever information I have, so everyone knows. if they have information to add GREAT! If they can correct the information I have...GREAT!
Craft Beer Bob your summation was spot on, thank you. Darrin your entitled to your viewpoint, many of which are good, but it's time to move forward.
What do you mean move forward? Am I stopping anything?
All I do is post updates, some people care, others don't....don't really see how the move forward comment applies here.
If we had plans for phase two we could move forward
strangerdanger- "If the developer cannot follow the small simple rules, what makes anyone believe they would follow the big ones?" Of course this 'broken windows" sort of logic is faulty on so many levels that somehow working off-hours leads to putting the wrong-sized drainage pipes in the wrong places. The possibility exists but doubtful that working off-hours against a minor fine leads to greater transgressions. "
I don't think that's the only violation. If I understand correctly, they admitted in a town meeting that they disregarded the engineers directions regarding stone compaction layer sizes. Things like that and they way they have been conducting the rest of their business there have them filling out the "shady developer who will do/cut anything for a buck" role quite nicely. I'm not saying they are worse than the average developer, but that's not really a measuring stick I would want to be compared on.
As far as CVS being exposed by these things, they simply aren't, these actions are taken by the contractor, not CVS. And why would any reputable construction firm risk it? Ask the guys who were falsifying the concrete tests for Yankee Stadium and the Second Avenue Subway. Or the guys who were falsifying tower crate inspections. This stuff happens every day on projects of every size, trying to expose it and get people to pay attention is the only way to get anything done about it. If I lived in the area I would probably be even more vocal than Darrin on holding the developer and contractors accountable for their actions. Some of you vilify him here but he's doing your job for you, every one of you who lives in the area should be just as concerned.
You are 100% correct Brendan, actually the compaction issue slipped my mind, and that was a big one, caused damage to a few of my neighbors homes.
CVS does have a chief engineer, and he has been to meetings, so I would think CVS is well aware of what is going on, and in my opinion, should be controlling their contractors. First Hartford reality is also informed about everything.
And you are correct in the concern part. The people who all have these comments live on the other side of the fence so to say, they cannot relate to the people living close to this project and I have not seen one of them at a town meeting since I have started going.
If there was a project going on next to their house, I would probably have the "just get it done" attitude as they do, because it does not affect my residence, but I most certainly would not insult them for their concerns.
Contractors are contractors. MOST will save a buck where they can. That is why a lot of big projects are bonded. I'm with Darrin on this one. If the contractor is breaking a "minor" rule/regulation, then what keeps them from breaking "major" rules/regulations. I would err on the side of caution and I really appreciate that Darrin keeps a "watchdog" eye on this project.
Now for those who don't agree. Think of this project as your own personal project. You wouldn't want the contractor rushing to complete the project at the expense of the quality of work. The old adage of HASTE MAKE WASTE comes to mind. You wouldn't want the contractor to break the rules/regulations that were in your contract. I've dealt with many a contractor and find that their are very few that are very reputable. Most try to cut corners to make up financial losses for low ball bidding the projects just to get the jobs. Brendan has made some pretty good points and given examples of projects gone wrong.
I want to see the property developed but I want it done RIGHT! If there is delay in that, then so be it! It needs to be done Correctly First. And if you break the rules/regulations then you need to pay the penalties.
With the curbs now going in, you should be able to see just how much higher this property is then it was originally, and why I am so concerned about water flow in this area.
Wonder why they felt the need to raise it so much?
I think you answered your own question. They needed to raise it up so much to add a curb, something that side of Stiger was lacking.
ted idk about that darwin, have you seen how high the curb is compared to East Stiger Street? It's even higher when compared to Main Street. I am talking about their parking lot curb.
East stiger street will be lowered to add a curb to the road.
Planning board agenda is out for January 26th at 7:30 pm, and the townhouse project at bergen tool is on there for the first time. Should be interesting to see their plans finally. I would advise anyone who is interested to come, it is a public meeting.
AGENDA
1. Sunshine Act
2. Swearing in of new & reappointed members
3. Roll Call
4. Pledge of Allegiance
5. Reorganization of the 2016 Planning Board
A. Chairman
B. Vice Chairman
C. Clerk/Secretary
D. Professionals
E. Official Newspaper
F. Meeting Dates
G. Financial Committee
H. Authorize Chairman to Sign Professional Contracts
6. Approval of minutes – November 24, 2015
7. Resolutions – None
8. Case #15-04, Jade Land Co., LLC
Block 73, Lots 1 & 10
9. Case #15-05, Auto Zone, Inc.
Block 129, Lot 17
10. Old Business
11. New Business
12. Adjournment
Thanks for sharing the information..I hope their plans don't include making the Bergen Tool Project look like Passaic!
Does anyone know if Jade filed the plans at the construction office yet. Very interested in seeing some actual plans on how they are going to jam 108 residentials on essentially 7 acres. I have not had a chance to go to the office.
That is crazy for such a small area!! How many stories the condos gonna be? Where is the open space then huh?..
BTW I see the CVS curbs are higher.. Where is all the water going to go then? What is in place to prevent more flooding from happening?
We are promised 3 acres open space, and the town has agreed on a rough idea of the open space in previous meetings leading up to this one. I would highly recommend coming to the meeting pampur.
Where is the retention pond going to be? This sounds like a mish mosh...just like Welsh Farms condos he built.
Last i checked bordering the back of the houses along 2nd, 3rd street. But like I said, I have not seen the "new" plans yet
Will be a field day for Canada Geese and mosquitoes and God knows what other critters. Plus West Nile Virus has been found and identified here in Warren County..
@pamper re: Welsh Farms condos: have you seen this report? Lots of a bad chemical released next door at Frazier: http://iaspub.epa.gov/triexplorer/release_fac_profile?tri=07853FRZRNFAIRV&TRILIB=TRIQ1&FLD=&FLD=RE_TOLBY&FLD=RE_TOLBY&OFFDISPD=&OTHDISPD=&ONDISPD=&OTHOFFD=&year=2011
The retention area will be a god send for the people that live in this low area when it comes to flooding though. And I believe their plan does not include year round water, I think it is actually a detention basin, but I am not sure, I have not seen a presentation yet.
The thought would never cross my mind to eliminate it, my first thought would be is it big enough to handle what we get! In initial plans, the detention area was 3 times the size as originally planned
As the engineers realise just how much water we get in this area, the detention basin has grown tremendously. Is it big enough? I will wait to see the presentation this Tuesday and get all my facts straight first. You should come, and anyone interested should come. It is at 7:30pm the 26th and public is always welcome.
It is so pathetic to me the time spent on trying to stop CVS. Let it be! You will be on your death bed wishing you invested more time in family and friends and being in the moment. It's a waste of energy and stress that's highly affecting you. CVS will open, it will be successful, and it even looks pretty. It's laughable watching the people waste their precious time on this stuff. Life will be so much more enjoyable for you when you stop fighting the battles NOT worth fighting.
Hey outdoors, who is trying to stop CVS? That project is approved and well on it's way in case you have not noticed.
FYI, it seems Jade is on the planning board agenda for dollar general. The construction office did not have new plans for bergen tool. I would not be surprised if they give a update at tuesdays meeting though.
WE are not discussing CVS. WE are talking bout flooding/retention basin and the proposal of more units to be built on the rest of the property.
Who are you to say MR. OUTDOORS these battles are not worth fighting?
Where is their responsibility on cleaning up the sidewalk in front of this property when it snows? People have to walk on Rt. 46 on this section of the street! It is a mess right now!
cloudyday cloudyday, yes, the contractor should clear the sidewalk, but can't people cross the street rather than walk on rte 46?
Doesn't our town have fines if a sidewalk is not clear within a certain time frame?
You should notice Hackettstown PD before someone is injured.
I thought that sidewalk was closed.
Yes there is an ordinance to clear sidewalks. I tried venturing downtown and could not cross the street. most corners are piled high or you have to be very skinny to get thru the path that was made.
Just to keep everyone updated. I went to the planning board meeting and Jade cancelled. So, they were moved to next month's agenda.
Just look at the size of that Drug Store - you couldn't fit a Supermarket in there ? Everybody still has to drive to Mansfield to get their groceries. How many more people live in the surrounding towns that border Hackettstown ( since they put all their housing right on the town line ) and town proper since the old Shoprite burned down ?
I went by at 6:30pm and it was closed up. I noticed because haven't been in town forr 3 days and wanted to see the progress.
Christine, if it is CVS you are talking about, you are mistaken.
I can contest, as I was home, and there was three guys working on a man lift, driving all around the building, I believe stuccoing, until around 8:05pm. Around 6:30 they were on the scaffold on the East Stiger side of the building, which is why you may not of noticed. Also they had the building lights off, but the machine starting up, and the alarm as it would move and raise up and down was very noticeable.
Truth, yes the building is huge, seems like a 3 story monument to CVS personally. But I am sure with the close proximity of other supermarkets, it may of not been feasible to put a supermarket in at that time. Phase two of the project does call for more commercial space as well as apartments and townhomes, so you might see something there, not sure yet because plans still have not come out.
If it was on the other side then I did not see it BUT the front gate was locked and saw no cars there. No lights were on either.
I wish it would just get done already.
Get done for what ? To put Skylands Pharmacy out of business and pay a dollar or two more for non-perishable items ? They will have everything Dollar General has but for more money .... Still no vegetables, cold cuts and meat. Please don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining .... Hackettstown needs another Drug Store like it needs a hole in it's head.
Trust me, i am with you on that, every day having construction noise practically in my front yard has been quite anoying, but these things take time.
I don't know about anyone else BUT my business will stay with Skylands.Pharmacy. I have been using them sine they moved into town. I used CVS prior and I cant tell you how many times they messed up my prescriptions. I LOVE the people who work there, the owners and their service. They go above and beyond for their customers.
I sue CVS for their specials and caremark card. I get Dawn dish detergent there for 75 cents when they are on sale and I use a coupon. Get cash back to use for necessities. I am not a fan of Family Dollar and you can get a lot of things cheaper with coupons and sales. It takes work but worth it for me. That's the only reason I walk into CVS!
Truth, I am sick of looking at the site as I am sure people are sick of hearing it.
With phase two plans not even released yet, hate to say it, but this project is going to go on for years. Pushing for the project to be complete will only end up in things being overlooked IMHO.
As it stands now, I am sure CVS is trying to get done as fast as they can, I believe they have all approvals necessary to do so, although I have not received word on the D.O.T approval.
I too use Skylands, and will continue to do so ever since I found out that even though I have CVS caremark prescription coverage, skylands takes it. CVS does not have anything I need that other surrounding stores do not already provide.
If I had to guess CVS will probably take away pass through customers from Skylands, people who pass through town and are on the lookout for a quick stop to a pharmacy. There is no way that the addition of CVS will not affect Skylands.
I use CVS, have know the Pharmacists for years, got no big company smell to me except that when travelling, they are always there. Their tracking and reporting are great and usually the only issue I have in between DRs and ExpressScripts.
Building looks nice, would have liked a more antiqued brick but like the attempts to look colonial. Would have liked their wild modern looks too, might have even fit better in with the stucco strip malls across the street.
Yup, I am ready, open er up. And being on the west side probably will get me to buy a few non prescription items that I would never do from the Mansfield location. Christine will probably see me in the aisles and Darrin will definitely hear me as I beep twice for safety after picking up my drive-though :>)
Skylands is a wonderful pharmacy, but one problem they have that I believe curtails their business is that lousy parking lot. Very few spaces for people to park and they share those spots with the other stores in that strip. I have on occasion skipped going to the pharmacy because there was no where to park. I do not believe that will be a problem at CVS. I hope those who go to Skylands will remain loyal.
JBJSKJ I agree strangerdanger--I've used CVS the past 5-6 years and have been very happy. Both of the pharmacists in the Mansfield store (Mike and Mark) are awesome and always go above and beyond to help us out in any way they can. I just hope the pharmacy staff in the new store is as top notch as the one in the Mansfield store is cause that end of town is a lot closer to home for me :)
Greeneyeddi I hope one or two of the Mansfield Pharmacists transfer over for some continuity not to mention their expertise at the "local experience."
I agree local is nice Darrin but to me it depends. CVS employees are all local, friendly and the pharmacists tend to know us as friend/customers. I don't feel the big box when I go there and if I am getting that cog-in-the-machine feeling, I know I can wave one of them over for some down-home local service that cuts through the red tape with plain speak. May live in a big box, but it's local to me and I have known these folks for years.
Not sure the new store will be like that. Time will tell. If it isn't, I will return to Mansfield.
To me, much of a local feel has to do with management and people. And bad vibes can come either on a local or big business basis. I avoid stores with a revolving employee carousel whether big or small. If people don't want to work there, why should I shop there. Much of my return business is based on a growing better relationship with the people I am paying. And while I like these vibes to permeate the business, let's face it, it starts at the top, big or small.
Truth,
We don't need a grocery story there. You can purchase meat at one of the 3 Quick Checks in 1.2 mile radius.
I do think it would be a great idea to put another CVS directly across the street, seeing how well that idea worked with the Twin Eckert/Rite Aid.
I heard there will be canoe rentals. You have to park at quick check and rent a canoe to get to CVS's front door
You have to purchase your canoe rental permit directly from the mayor, it will be issued after she and Ray approve it.
The Man I know this doesn't fit in regards to the CVS but how does anyone feel about a Quick Chek with a gas station going on mountain ave.
animal lover Great idea, knock down the old gas station across from Raceway and put it there then knock down the old Quick Check and build a new White Castle. Of course this will all have to be approved with the Mayor and Ray.
Actually the rumor (substantiated by a letter to one of the tenant's) is that a variance will be sought to build a gas station where the empty lot across from Quick Check Mt Ave is. The plan would also tear down several of the houses on Washington St next to the lot and the large white house facing Mt. Ave. The last thing Mountain Ave needs is another gas station at this location but more importantly changing the residential look of Washington St to commercial is another bad decision.
Bonv HMUA has the proposal, but I am not sure if the planning board has approved anything to date.
No Ted but I would not have expected a gas station where there are 2 up the street and another one further down and a defunct station ready to go. I would expect that in a town as condensed as this that we would leave residential homes alone and not tear them down to build more commercial buildings.
I do believe dollar general is on the planning board agenda for this tuesday, he is looking to subdivide his lot. I have heard rumors he want to add another building behind dollar general.
Also, auto zone is on the agenda once again, we will see if they can come to a conclusion about the sign.
But perhaps involved in canoe rentals?
Apparently someone closely associated with the mayor though
Christine, I don't understand why you constantly have it out for me.......Where did I make assumptions? If you actually read the posts you would see it was a comment back to other's posts (something you normally do on a forum)
All I can say is do a little research, and you will be quite surprised what you may find. If you don't want to do research, at least read the other posts and realise that I was commenting on someone else's post, it was not me who brought it up.
Darrin the POINT is you SAID it! Whether its directed at someone else you still said it!
What annoys me is your assumptions!
The statement, "Apparently someone closely associated with the mayor though" was yours and no one else said it!
The jokes above were jokes YES I got that. Your statement is more of an accusation that Ray and the Mayor are involved. These are how rumors are started.
Interesting conclusion you came to Christine, you said it, not I. I thought they were just getting together on canoe permits according to the man.
PB meeting tomorrow at 7:30, will I see you there Christine?
Hey, did you ever get that Warren county clerk site to work?
Good, you got the site to work, well, you have all the info right in front of you for some very interesting research, research you should do before pointing those assumption fingers you love to point.
Good luck, let me know if you need any more help.
A brief update was given about the bergen tool property at tonights PB meeting.
CVS still has not acquired D.O.T approval, although they expect to by March, and D.O.T will not permit any road improvements prior to the approval. The planning board brought up how CVS was not concerned about this approval 2 years ago and thought it would go quickly.
I personally hope this is a lesson learned to the planning board for allowing a development to be built prior to D.O.T approval. It was a concern that was brought up at that meeting by myself, but was not taken into account and now the existing homes in this area have been left with a major change to the topography and no drainage improvements for two years. We have come close to flooding quite a few times, but it has been avoided by keeping in contact with our town engineer and Paul having quick reactions to potential issues.
It is expected that phase 2 will have plans filed by (i believe) they said Friday.
Darwin, feel free to chime in on any missing or incorrect details.
Nope not much to add. Town Engineer stated he expects the developer to submit the phase 2 application on Friday which will give them time to get it presented at the next month board meeting so that's good. Hopefully more people show up its quite lonely just being there with Darrin :)
Other town news.
Auto Zone was approved to go where White Castle was with a monument sign. Now auto zone lawyer has to go back to company to see if they want the spot badly enough to give into the no big sign demand that they want
The lot where the Dollar General is at got realigned a little. Nothing major but Rice is looking to build on the back lot. No hints of what he is looking to do
Fun fact Dollar General signed a 20yr lease for that spot. I didn't know it was that long so there's that
No mention f the Quick Chek on mountain ave so not sure how close they are to even presenting concepts for that lot.
Wonder why he seemed so uptight about giving hints on what he wanted to build on the back lot of dollar general?
What is the issue in regard to the autozone sign. Every bisiness on that strip has a large sign. It can not be more of an eyesore then that ugly white castle building was. It is a retail area so what busIness would not want a sign outfront.
that is the point Jdem, in order to stop more ugly signs going up the planning board passed a Master Plan calling for any new sign to be monuments not Pillars. They want going forward more signs like Chase and less signs like McDonalds. it was about time they did that. So at least no more big signs will go up. no one said the businesses can't have signs, but I'm glad we are finally dictating the type of sign.
no problem. and just so Jdem you get what the board was asking for. they want the sign to look more like this:
and not like this:
so basically store still has a well lit sign but Rte 182 looks less like Rte 22
I don't even understand why they need a sign, or at least what the big deal was about the sign for them, their building is so noticeable how it is, but I am very glad the planning board stuck to their guns on this one.
For those of you who didn't believe me when I said CVS would be raising the site and blocking water flow that used to flow into the site, take a ride by the site and check out the "CVS levee" they are constructing.................prayers for a adequate retention pond with phase 2!
Certainly wish I had the money to raise my entire property and push all the water onto the street and everyone else..............
Heard they are building a watch tower at the end of the wall to keep an eye on Darrin. ;)
Darwin, i believe the lookout tower plan was scratched when they decided to make CVS three strories. They can probably see a full Ariel shot of my property from thise upper windows. ;-)
On the site plan drawing that are hanging in the Town Hall the description it has listed for the wall is "Darrin Damn". thought that was funny name for the wall :)
j/k
too bad they couldn't, or didn't want to, reuse the old Bergen bricks to make up that wall. Would have been a nice way to recycle them and would have had a nice look
Lol, yeah, more like damn darrin.....it really sucks when the facts you have been trying to ignore are brought up on public record right!?!?!?!??
I noticed that after Tuesday all work seems to have halted at the site, I have not noticed anyone working on the site anymore, am I right in seeing this or has anyone seen differently?
Wonder why?
I saw they dug up Stiger street to put in a water line, and for whatever reason sprayed lines 1/2 way down my driveway (well onto private property). They left the street as dirt in that area and big chunks of rock are coming up. We had got a notification that Stiger street would be closed between 3/1 and 3/11, but it was only closed for one day.
What is going on here? Anyone have any details?
Sorry for not knowing, I am just trying to catch up, I was in Texas all last week.
Yes, it did seem to come to a halt last week, but they are right back at it today. They are putting up the bricks on the wall. As darwin said, I wish they used the old bricks for this part of the job, but alas it was probably easier or less expensive to grind up the old bricks.
I wonder if all the approvals are done yet for the DOT as they have not done anything with the drainage boxes that are scattered around the property. Plus they haven't dug up the street yet, other than the water line on East Stiger St.
I agree with the bricks. And if they were going to use new ones, would have been nice to have some color variation like old brick Oh well, still seems better than the usual box look with offsets, dormers, and a number of covering treatments.
I really like the sign they're putting in at the drive through: "honk if you know Darrin" :>)
I thought it was in the agreed plans to reuse the old bricks? What was that on? Maybe just a monument?
For the past few days they have been using East stiger for deliveries, town engineer has been made aware, yet the deliveries continue...........if these guys are good at anything, it is breaking the rules
I am so looking forward for it all to end!! Too much noise everyday, for far too long..Not sure why they put the detour signs up, yet only closed the road for one day? Just gotta love the rocks across the roadway...Darrin, I don't know how you have been able to deal with this.I am behind you and it sucks. Last week I saw one of the delivery or workers truck on your lawn..Glad you were able to get away to Texas.
grateful 
Philliesman I did see an 18 wheeler delivering on East Stiger Street last week not to far from your house Darrin. Is this a designated area for deliveries?
No consturction vehicles or delivery vehicles are allowed to be on East stiger street, it is a rule the workers of the site seem to have absolutly no regard for, despite being hammered by the town engineer about it time and time again.
Grateful, somehow i would not be suprised if they parked on my lawn, they have no respect. I saw them on my cameras driving a backhoe down my driveway, well onto private property......like it was their own property. At least they can do is ask permission, they are lucky i was not home and didn't find out about it to after the fact. They left the front of my driveway all messed up, like i said, zero respect.
I did notice all the rocks in front of your house..the one fence is down again. Garbage all over the place..they don't give a shit. And that wall they put up is poorly done..Very shoddy workmanship.
I happened to drive by the new CVS in Byram.....so much for us getting a custom one of a kind store, almost exactly the same, just different colors.....or maybe they liked our design so much they decided to cookie cutter it? I don't remember who got approval first, but I think it was Byram.
I did not ever hear the word custom. I just heard "colonial" to fit in with the town which frankly is not colonial to begin with... I would gather these are almost box-like
They also have a modern box, most look a little different from each other but mostly the same. Probably could have gone with that look since it fits in better with both strip malls across the street. Plus they are kinda cool and spacey looking. I think Chatham of all places has a modern one. Washington might too, but I a
They do do customs including some using existing buildings, I think. Little hard to tell whether a real store or someone photo shopping the CVS sign sometimes. Think you have to had a larger market and a stronger town council for that though.
In whatever that other BT thread was, I posted many of the pics for these.
There are dozens of CVS' around the east coast that all look like our 'customized, site specific' design.
EVV "I did not ever hear the word custom"
Because you were not at the planning board meetings? CVS offered this design as a one off, something they never usually do
The building looks great. The wall along Main Street is something I've never seen before and is a nice touch. Let's just get it finished and move on.
Hi Darrin. Just a thought: When these guys park, and do whatever in clear violation of the law - call the local PD.
My experience has been, that from the history of how these people have conducted themselves, there will be no accountability, if and when there are serious consequences from the changes they have made, that deviate from the plans.
When that happens, every police report will be important to show a pattern of disregard. You and your neighbors have a right to live peacefully in your homes. If there are big problems down the road, I have a feeling you will have to fight to make them take responsibility.
Yes towniejim, we will eventually move on to phase 2!!! A whole 'nother set of problems!
You have never seen a wall and a site raised before? I have..........
Darrin. For Phase 2 are all those work trucks still going to be on East Stiger Street? How are they getting back there? From what street do you know...? That is going to be a total mess in the AM when people are trying to cut through East Prospect to get to work at M&M.It's bad enough now..it's only going to get worse...
Nobody builds wall better than CVS, believe me, it will be yuuuge. Hopefully it keeps out the undesirables from the soon to be low income apartments, aka phase 2.
Come on towniejim, have a little sense of humor.....might as well laugh about it now, because it won't be a laughing madder if this design does not react as shown and planned. It's so obvious they raised the site and put up the wall because they KNEW water flowed into that site, yet tried to downplay it at the meetings. They were more concerned about keeping themselves high and dry as opposed to what will now happen to the surrounding homes. Still no drainage improvements done on East Stiger, playing with our well being here.....
I will admit, I like how they curved the front corner of the wall, and I believe that is where a monument of some type is suppose to go respecting the american saw mill site.
Pampur, I would assume since they were not suppose to use Residential streets for CVS, the same will be held true for phase two, they do have an opening on main street to access the phase two property, but who knows, CVS certainly proved that rules are made to be broken, and nobody in our town will do anything about it except shoot numerous phone calls and emails.....it's time for them to be fined. Hopefully the town will be much wiser with phase two and actually describe actions that will be taken if the developer's agreement is broken, not just say "or else!!!!"
"Still no drainage improvements done on East Stiger, playing with our well being here....."
What's your well doing on East Stiger? :>)
No your right Darrin. It's just that for you and your neighbors I know you want it over and we all can say the building looks very nice and the wall is a plus. And the picture was funny.
I doubt the town will do a thing. I have no confidence in any of them..I mean look at the way it's been handled from the get go...I know the traffic from that Phase 2 is going to be overwhelming when it dumps out into Countryside Estates..East Prospect Street you wait and see.
Was a traffic study even done?
I would like to see the project complete, but as it has been explained by many on this site...things like this take time. Also, I have no want to break the rules in the process. To my understanding, the construction is still ongoing without full D.O.T approval.
Pampur, we have not seen plans for phase two, I am sure a traffic study will be done, or be requested to be done when those plans finally make it to the planning board.
Wow, shouldn't the traffic study have been done before they said, "yupper, put 100 2-3 bedroom apartments in and a bunch of stores?"
IDK, maybe it was done, if so, it has not been opened to the public that I know of. I know CVS's traffic study did not come out until well into the design phase, and it did include the old phase two idea while presenting to the planning board.
Remember, what was approved for phase 2 was only a ordinance to allow UP TO 108 homes, and stores...the planning board will determine if that is feasible.
AGENDA FOR 3-22-2016 PB MEETING
1. Sunshine Act
2. Roll Call
3. Pledge of Allegiance
4. Approval of minutes – February 23, 2016
5. Resolutions – Case #15-05, Auto Zone, Inc.
Case #15-04, Jade Land Co., LLC Sub. Waivers & Completeness
Case #15-04, Jade Land Co., LLC
6. Case #16-01, Jade Hackettstown Associates, LLC Completeness Only
Block 21, Lot 18
7. Old Business
8. New Business
9. Adjournment
Yesterday sucked....CVS & HMUA did work on the waterlines, flooded my bathroom, and I had brown cloudy water for 2 hours with two sinks running, freaking gross......
HMUA was quick to respond and had me just run my water untill it cleared up, but it still comes out cloudy every once in a while.
Who is Darrin2, who is John Galt :>)
OK, I saw the wall. Wow. That's a lot of wall.
You probably told us, but is there a purpose for said wall? Please tell me the purpose is not to contain water as part of "the plan."
SD, other then "decoration" i am sure the real reason behind the wall is to contain and hide the drastic elevation change they created when raising the property to keep water out.
So if they really need it, that means the access points will be the outlets I guess.....
Suggestion: when they plan the strip mall and 100 apartments, tell them you will not argue about water if they build a wall around your house :>) Get something nice, maybe a nice gate, and some interesting wall covering treatment. Has to be cheaper than walling off an entire subdivision :>)
Darrin..listening to Erin Brockovich on Flint water crisis and Gov. Snyder’s role . Is your water still cloudy?
There you go, Darrin. Call Julia Roberts. She'll get that fixed in a jiffy for you.
HappyJack SD, havent you heard...it is now a strip mall, 45~ apartments and 65~Townhomes (I don't remember the exact numbers).....plans are at the construction office. Also the water issue they are trying to keep OUT. CVS realised just how much water used to run into that site after they did a storm water survey
Happy jack, my toilet leaks down a little, so when they turned the water back on, my toilet was calling for water, so I got all the air, being I am not apparently the end of line...it splashed what water was still in the tank out and all over the floor would be my best guess.
Water is clearer, but I still do not trust it, still some dirt in it.
Phase two is on the agenda for Tuesday nights board meeting, I say it every time, and almost no one comes, but anyone interested or concerned should come.
I did also find out that when working on the sewer line, they hit and ruptured my neighbors waterline because it was "not marked properly" so they claim......thank GOD it wasn't a gas line.....un-freakin-real, this whole thing
.
"I did also find out that when working on the sewer line, they hit and ruptured my neighbors waterline"
That would explain how the dirt got in the system.
As for the air... if it's finding its way into your house, you must be at a local high point in the main. It's the only thing I can think of that would cause that much air to blow out your toilet tank. That's just one more reason not to let those little repair jobs go (-;
It'll all be worth it Darrin once you have a beautiful CVS to go to right across the street. Just need for them to lower the draw bridge to let you in
I keep telling myself that this project will raise my property value, but idk if thats the case....anyone want.to buy a house with a 3 story CVS in the front yard on a street that is the main exit for that CVS and potentially 108 residentials......yeah.....i got screwed on this one
Ianimal, apparently now i am the end of line, when they had the lines open they got air in the system, my house is now the only way to get that air out....at least thats how i understand it....hope this change to benifit CVS doesn't end up hurting me.
Darrin, I hope they did a storm water survey for Fourth Street and East Stiger Street..There is a lot of water that runs down into the back of that property.
.First it pools on Fourth Street and then overruns and down into the back of the property it goes with debris along with it..What a mess after rain storms..
pampurr, no idea, i would think so, but who knows if they are correct, there were many flaws with the CVS storm water survey, which I argued time and time again in front of the board. What they were showing as computer modeled water flow is not what happens on site, and i made that point very clear.
But as for phase 2, plans just came out, but it would be beneficial to everyone for you to come to the meeting and express your concerns. I, personally am well aware of the amount of water, as it ends up in our yards once bergen tool property overfills when it does come down, they may not be.
I have video that was submitted to the town engineer a few years back of white water about 6 + inches deep, full street width flowing into the site down third street. There will be no hiding the amount of water this site takes, it will just be about how close the guys on the computers can get to what actually happens. Pictures and videos are what is key at times like this.
I have run into that situation of few times where computer models and the "experts" directly conflict with people living on site for a couple of decades. Most of these "experts" are town hired and looking for more jobs in other towns. Also had one where the "salt of the earth" farmer who had one year's experience was the golden child of knowledge over laymen living there forever. The laymen were correct in both situations.
Darrin is right, strength in numbers (and pictures.) Avoid the emotion, stick to the facts and realize the "experts" are dealing with models and estimates, not the reality you live with.
Darrin, I think the townhomes are a plus for your value over apartments and expect a neighborhood similar to the one behind Dunkin Donuts. Small, tight, first-owner homes and lots of kids, hopefully very young ones (versus those noisy teens). Still has a good chance to be better for value than being located behind a toxic vacant factory IMHO. The strip mall will be the wild card, hopefully it will be main street side and not affect you much. Best luck.
The funny thing is SD, when i asked at the town concil meeting when they were changing the ordinance to fit what the developer wants to do, they said they expect a influx of around 25 kids from the 108 residential......right....but it is one of those calculated figures
Don't trust their projections on how many children..What are they basing that off of?
"What are they basing that off of?"
Real live data, pampurr. Experience with the building of Willow Grove, Collegeview, Kenwood, Greenview, Brook Hollow, Hunters Brook, and more. Ask for their spreadsheets that prove it out if you'd like. Much better than FUD.
GC. Are u sure on that. I thought they used a more general huge report to make thise estimates.
Strangerdanger - I'm positive. It was Bill Conforti's response to Darrin at the Town Council meeting a while ago. They have a bunch of years worth of data they've crunched that continues to be borne out over time. Local data more accurate than state wide averaged numbers. You don't have to take anyone's word for it, ask for the raw data over time.
There are two strip malls already directly across the street with vacant units. There are also a dozen more vacant store front units on Main Street! That said ... I think it would be a GREAT idea to build another strip mall of vacant stores. Instead of saving a tiny bit of open space in our overly congested soon to be concrete jungle, we'll just throw up another useless building to drive more businesses off of Main St.
What's next .... Building a new Main St off of Bilby Road? Perhaps the Bilbly Road project could be a series of Quick Checks? Makes about as much sense as the current plans.
Photo Well your memory is better then mine GC. I just remember being told "they trust their experts"
I know in past developments they used calculated numbers from a rutgers study, a study which warren county is not even in. I would be very interested in seeing this collected data you speak of. How can we get a copy?
I just find it very hard to believe, if it were to be built, after 5-10 years if one was to do a honest count of children across the 108 units, you will not get 25.
I am most interested in seeing the traffic study, I do not understand how that many residentials, plus CVS, plus stores can safely have only one main means of ingress and egress, they are going to add a lot of congestion to the Stiger Street/Main street light. I know their plans showed having a "back way out" around the area of the current main street property entrance, but I would think that will have turning restrictions otherwise it would make it very dangerous. We have to be on the look out of turning lanes, or no turning restrictions on mainstreet to make their traffic study plausible (this has been mentioned in the past traffic studies for the property) As we can see now, people favor coming to a traffic light. But when phase 2 was originally planned, with just office buildings and apartments, the traffic expert clearly said that they needed a turning lane and no turning restrictions otherwise there would be undesirable congestion.
GC, the town planner has used this document.
http://bloustein.rutgers.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/NJDM.pdf
Warren county is not included in this report and it was updated in 2006, but taken from the 2000 census. So the report does not apply to our area #1 and I'm sure it does not take into account the increase of illegal Hispanic population that has increased in the area. This report is over 10 years old with the most current census over 15 years old. I have presented these issues to the planning board and asked for study done for the area instead of a study that does not clearly apply to our area.
As far as Conforti saying the town used past raw data from past development. Ihave never heard that was being done officially and have never seen the raw data. From what I recall at one meeting, Conforti mentioned that other development went up in the area and it didn't seem to effect the traffic. That being said, is far from a study. If there is a study that is current, I am unaware of it's existence.
I think it make sense to do a study with current data as a lot has changed over the past 15 years and again the referred study doesn't include our county in the data.
Strangerdanger, if memory serves me right, the purpose of the wall, initially was to help tie in the old brick office building that was suppose to be re-developed into the plan(until it was neglected enough to asked by the developer to be torn down and approved by the planning board) and the developer was to re-use the old bricks within the wall(which I don't think was done, as most of the old bricks were ground up on site).
My guess the wall will become a great place for graffiti and better place for day workers to hang out and sit on. But we'll have to wait to see.
Darrin,I believe it is 66 townhouses and 44 apartments over retail space. I did see the plans at town hall and it looks as though it will be 4 retail units around the CVS and then 13 separate units in the back area containing the 66 townhouses and then 3 acres of open usable recreational space in the very back.
I question the parking spaces for the retail, especially if the plan is expecting CVS to share their spaces with the phase 2 retail. CVS is it's own property now and I;m not sure the town can make them "share" there parking spaces. This became an issue with Shop Rite liquors and taking parking spaces off West Stiger St in the past.
I'll probably shoot over first to Prospect and head out that way to 46 or 517 when I leave. Of course after honking twice to say hi to Darrin :>)
Thanks Darrin, the Rutger's report is the one I remember the numbers aligning to. I think we had the link in the other BT thread. We certainly discussed the numbers in depth and that the study was dated and did not cover Warren.
This may be the link: http://bloustein.rutgers.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/NJDM.pdf
Now they may have put local data on top of that but I remember the numbers lining up to the report pretty exact. Plus the numbers used were for apartments, not townhomes so the math has changed with the changed configuration and, I am guessing, changed number of total bedrooms. School age kid ratios move upwards for both townhome (vs. apartment) and number of bedrooms (3 versus 2).
"There are two strip malls already directly across the street with vacant units. There are also a dozen more vacant store front units on Main Street!" states Maureen2
Yes there are 2 strip malls across the street. They all do well! There is only 1 empty and the owner wants to keep it a deli so that may be the reason for its failure to rent it. Also I am curious when you were last on Main St? The only empty storefronts I know are the old Super Stuff (and work is being done in it currently) and the one next to Healthfood store. That's "2" not a dozen!!
The MORP - My comment about Conforti was not data for a traffic study. It was in reference to when Darrin questioned the numbers of potential school age kids. That was at the Town Council meeting (not planning board) both you and Darrin sat next to each other.
Darrin - Ask Mr Conforti. He made the statement, he's the one to back it up.
Formally "Julie's Interiors", " The old Music Store", "Leo's", the computer place, the former Florist on the square, super stuff, next to the health food store, Bach's....
yes there are way more than 2 empty store fronts on Main St. But they are empty for multiple reasons. some like Leo's, the Carpet place and Bach's are recently available and in good buildings that shouldn't be vacant for very long. Some are empty solely because the landlord has put zero effort in. The Party Super Supply store has been left a dump since the store moved out how many years ago? He has put zero effort in making it presentable to potential businesses until now. Funny how multi business owners complained about the building at the annual BID meeting and now the landlord looks like he is finally doing something.
As for some of the other buildings, some are really not that attractive. What is going in to the old florist shop? its small and dated, I can't imagine and type of business finding it appealing. Should be knocked down and start over. Same with the empty buildings by the gas stations. Knock them down and build over.
doing some research you can tell which landlords on Main St are interested in having well kept buildings that bring value to H'town and which landlords are just collecting rent and put no care in their buildings.
Don't forget the trading post, thats a huge vacant space.
GC, i will either talk to conforti personally or pull the minutes from the meeting, i have no recollection of that being said. I remeber him making a comparison to other developments, but nothing about a formal study being done in town.
GC, sorry I meant to say potential school age students and not potential traffic(though I think traffic was mentioned too). But I'm pretty certain that the numbers were based upon the Rutgers study only by the town planner. I do not remember Conforti stating that the data was compiled and used to get the numbers of potential students. I do remember him referencing Brook Hollow as a similar sized complex that the schools were able to handle. But that reference does not make it a study by any means. Conforti is on both boards, so it could have been a town council meeting and not a planning board meeting.
Christine/Seenit, you guys forgot the Hackettstown Trading Post store and half of the Mini Mall are empty right now. Though the new owners of the mini mall are doing a good job of upgrading it.
I think the MORP has an emotional take away from Hispanics that is not really based on facts.
Yes, the report does not include Warren but sans other material might be the best guesstimate we can make.
The age of the data may not matter as when you look at the historical data provided, the trend is mostly downward over the decades.
What is your fact base for the giant increase in illegal Hispanics or our you just winging it based on seeing some Hispanics and figuring they were illegal?
Do your Hispanics rent new apartments or buy new townhomes?
I really doubt there will be a lot of day walkers on your wall. Its CVS, not Main Street.
Yes, it would make sense to do a study with current data; better yet one based on the Hackettstown experience. But you can't afford the truth, sorry. So you got to go with the best data available, then flavor it with your anti Hispanic emotions and I am sure you will be the hit of the meeting.
Even applying the data, each townhome bedroom adds .03 school kids, that's an 18% school kid increase for the project right there. If the project added three bedroom facilities over the initial plan for two bedroom, each third bedroom adds .25 public school kids which is a large increase over the existing plan. Let's say all town homes were 3 bedrooms and the apts. were two. That's an extra 18 kids or a 165% increase over the original plan.
With extra kids not only comes the normally expected infrastructure but also extra work hours needed to support, extra cars and commuters (especially if kids are working too). So a little can add up to more quickly.
Bottom line is with the new plan one would expect someone to have revisited all of the infrastructure use numbers before proceeding with acceptance.
And then there's the Hispanics :>)
And you wonder why you have had issues with your posts not showing up or being removed SD.....come on man, your better then that, the morph made a single, probable point, and you ran way past outfield with it.....not necessary by any means and very uncalled for.
You had some good data in there, if you could cut the crap we could talk....
The ordinance stated 75% 3 bedroom, and the rest limited to 2 bedroom so at 66 townhomes, is it safe to assume 50 3 bedroom, 16 2 bedroom?
As for the apartments, it is stated "an average of no more than two bedrooms per unit shall be permitted" and there is a maximum of 44 apartments allowed. So you may have some 1 bedroom, some 3 bedroom, although I am not too sure how rentable a three bedroom apartment is?
First of all, I said "ILLEGAL" HISPANICS, not Hispanics. I have nothing against the Hispanics at all, especially in our community.
"What is your fact base for the giant increase in illegal Hispanics or our you just winging it based on seeing some Hispanics and figuring they were illegal?"--
Stats for 2000 census Hispanic population for Hackettstown 8.01% (833)
Stats for 2010 census Hispanic population for Hackettstown 15.16% (1,474)
These are facts. Now, I'm interested in knowing does our US census include "ILLEGAL" citizens in the numbers. My guess is that it doesn't but I'm not sure. Either way, the illegal number would be an increase as the hispanic population has almost doubled in ten years.
"So you got to go with the best data available, then flavor it with your anti Hispanic emotions and I am sure you will be the hit of the meeting."
I'm not "Anti-Hispanic", I'm Anti-Illegal citizens.
Illegal citizens are not contributing to our tax structure and then have children that become US citizens because they are born here and those children get the benefits of an education that their parent(s) are not contributing to. Sorry but I have a problem with that.
Yes Darwin that's what the town needs, keep knocking down the old buildings, and putting up more faux brick eyesores so this town looks like every other town. Also who need open spaces for kids to play. That softball field was too quiet surrounded by woods, downright creepy.
Yea that's exactly what we need. Knock down the run down buildings and out new ones up. New ones can still be make to look old. But those 2 ugly building by the gas stations have zero architectural significance. They are just worn down ugly buildings. Time to knock them down
And Denis I have been very clear that I wanted phase 2/3 to be open land. Having kids in sports I know how limited open fields are.
At least we agree on open space. New buildings made to look old, look just like that, new buildings made to look old. See the new "central house". Sometime it's in the landlords best financial interest to intentionally allow a building to deteriorate to the point of being commended so they can put up a cheap faux old building.
Maybe on here Darwin, but it is the meetings that count ;-) Speak up bud!
We need to be sure, and I think themorp has said it before, that they do not wait until the tail end of the project for water management/open space improvements.
I would hope we learned our lesson from CVS and phase 2 stormwater management improvements are agreed to be built BEFORE any grading changes. It was themorp's idea to build the park 50% into, (or something fair) the project and being we have no guarantees on how long this project will be ongoing, I highly agree.
Haven't had a chance to speak up on phase 2/3 as it has not been formally introduced yet. That starts tomorrow night. See ya then
Well, there was the town council meetings, and former planning board meetings on phase 2/3, but we'll see where this takes us, see you there!
For those who like to speak up on the Hackettstown Life forum about this project. Now is the perfect time to speak up and make it count at the planning board meeting tonight. Hope to see and hear from those who care.
You are right Darrin, this thread is no place to discuss undocumented workers especially since they are not really germane to the development we are discussing. I was just taken aback by MORP's "So the report does not apply to our area #1 and I'm sure it does not take into account the increase of illegal Hispanic population that has increased in the area" as somehow being relevant to either the report or the development. It is not. His doubles-down of his opinion turned fact by saying the proof that we have illegals is that we have more Hispanics topped off by the oft-repeated "I'm not "Anti-Hispanic", I'm Anti-Illegal citizens." While probably right that we have more illegals than in the past, doesn't everyone, it has nothing to do with the report nor the development.
He has little actual proof that we have more illegals except that we have Hispanics. And he has no proof that it would either affect the report or have any influence on who buys and rents in this development. So why toss the illegal card backing it up by saying the proof is we have more Hispanics but I am not against Hispanics, at least the legal ones.
Of course we have to rationalize all this by talking about the economic affect as MORP sees it. You know, just the bad parts.
I won't delve into it MORP but illegals do pay taxes, it is Federal Income tax they might escape. Some even pay income tax. They are floating our Social Security assets to the tune of billions of which they will never get a dime back. They pay all the same sales and excise taxes that we pay. May or may not pay school taxes, it depends. At the wages undocumented workers get, the chance they would pay Federal Income tax is slim anyway even if they reported.
MORP, with our undocumented workers are you asking who are the people enabling them? In Hackettstown, I am guessing it's small business owners, all white. Do they know they are gaming the system or are they just turning a blind eye when they hire all those Hispanics. These people avoid paying taxes for their undocumented workers in order to personally profit so these white small business owners can contribute that extra profit illegally to their own families and kids, probably for private schools and the like. Now before you go off, bear in mind I am against hiring undocumented workers, I am not against white small business owners. I have many white friends :>)
Darrin: on the numbers: using your notes on the changes. There should be no change to the apartment calculations given they got the number of 3-bedroom units correct. That's where "the money" is so if they are using the average of 2 bedrooms, the resulting number of school kids will be lower than if they used actual numbers, not averages. School kids per bedroom is not a linear function according to the report.
For the town homes, that's about 21 more school-age children. May not sound like a lot but might be thought of as one additional classroom, teacher, school bus, etc. Depends where the break points are, could be less, could be more.
Now for public school kids, the report says 16 more kids but here I think we can pretty much say there won't be a lot of school age kids in this development that won't be in public school. It's a guess and I know it sounds like I am doing exactly the same mistake that MORP did. I am, but those are the numbers from the report, use them as you will.
So the conclusion:
MORP summary: There will be 21 more public school children because illegal Hispanic undocumented workers want to steal our school budgets without paying any taxes and none of them will send their kids to private schools. But I am not against Hispanics.... :>) Now that's blunt unvarnished talking! And inaccurate.
SD summary. The report states there would be there will be 21 more school-age children with a range from 16 to 21 attending public schools. There MORP, that's how you do it :>) And yes, it's called spin or being politically correct. It's also called accurate.
Point is that there should be a recalculation of the impact study due to the plan changes and that the number of school kids must rise according to the source material previously used.
MORP is correct that any data from recent new Hackettstown developments would add value to the existing report being used. Statistically MORP is correct that if new apartment and townhouse developments are loaded with undocumented workers, or Hispanics for that matter, the number of kids will go up. That fact comes from census studies done over the years.
SD, come on man, keep on point before your ridiculousness, that you think is funny, but it is in no way funny gets this thread shut down.
I think what the Morp was alluding to, is that there has potentially been an increase in undoccumented people in town, you even admitted to this in your last post. These undocumented people are more then likely not on the census (the basis where these numbers come from) so how can you say that is a honest number since the children of undocumented people go right into the school system? I feel like there should be some sort of buffer multiplier added to account for this right?
How do you prove a potential increase in illegal residents? They should not be known about...that's like the cops saying yeah we know where the drug house is, but we are going to leave them alone. That make zero sense. If something is illegal, and the government knows of it, it would be corrected. So all we have to go off of is here-say. Perhaps the increase of undocumented people involved news stories in town can be you proof. You can "google" this, but you might wanna ask mistergoogle for help :->
I can see what themorp was trying to say, you apparently want to pin racism on anyone you can, chill man that's not the case here.
To get back on topic, I think the town needs to have a study done with current data from our area to see how many public students will be generated from this development.
I disagree with the current referenced study because it is not current data and does not include data from Warren county. In my opinion, I think the current projected number is less than it will actually be.
I agree that the projected number will be less than actual. Why? Because this development will be lower cost homes with a better chance to be starter homes for young families with kids. The total average of all average homes in the report does not reflect that nuance.
Chances are the report is pretty good for what it is and not reflecting Warren directly probably isn't that big a skew. Not reflecting Hackettstown, our demographics, our HT planners predilection towards lower cost cluster housing, and, in this case, the location --- tucked over and behind commercial along side a working train track would affect the numbers. So Warren County probably isn't all that critical but getting some HTown data would probably be enlightening and change the numbers.
I just don't think HTown will ever spend the money or get the developer to spend the money for that type of report. Good to ask but expect they will just blow you off with a huge price tag perhaps coming out of your taxes.
More likely might be to use the existing report and see if there is any existing data on recent HTown developments comparable to this one like school enrollments or something that exists in another database. Comparable meaning 1-3 bedroom comparable townhomes and apartments --- not Panther Valley.... While perhaps not statistically valid by itself, it might provide further direction when juxtaposed against the existing study proving MORP's point: more kids and you gonna need a bigger school boat.
There's also a huge number of data sources for every other municipal piece of infrastructure that could be examined. Number of police needed, water, sewage, you name it. Hopefully all of that has been done and now will be re-done due to the plan changes.
HINT: when you stick em to update every piece of data they have due to plan changes, you might find less changes to the plans going forward. IE> make em pay for indecision.... :>)
Good luck folks.
Here we go again, full mini earthquake in my house thanks to the road work......town engineer contacted yesterday and today, something needs to be done, this cannot continue like this.
You should record a video of these "full mini earthquakes" for proof.
What did the Town Engineer have to say about it?
Town engineer actually sent out his construction inspector. Of course as soon as the construction inspector got here everything changed. Hole was dug twice as deep, cribbing was used, everyone wearing hard hats, double the stone was being added, equating to 1/4 of the vibration, I am not sure if this was planned, but it did seem very suspicious.
I welcomed the inspector into my home, although by that time they had severely toned down the vibrations, and all that was to be seen was picture frames rattling and my washing machine sounding like it has a load of wash in it. Refrigerator also had a load of wash in it apparently.
I plan on talking to the town engineer about it tonight. I want to make sure that the seismographs he recommended are going to be put in. The inspector said he didn't think they were ever put in.
I did take a video of my desk lamp shaking and you can hear the vibrations in the background, but it is sort of hard to capture.
So from tonights meeting:
Phase two application has 13 deficiencies
Representative from Jade did not even show up
Deemed incomplete
I was able to catch my home being majorly affected by the ground movements on Wednesday on video. I sent this video to the town engineer as well as Mayor. Yet the vibratory compactor continued to be used for the rest of the week.
I have damage done to my home that I know are from these ground movements including a closet door that will not open properly and a crack in my foundation from top to floor that I do not remember seeing before.
The neighbors over here have been asking for seismographs and home inspections since October 2015, as recommended by the town engineer, but action has not been taken on this despite MULTIPLE requests to the town engineer. As of last week this has still been allowed to continue.
The town engineer had his construction project manager as well as speedwell in my home Monday and he witnessed for himself just how much this is affecting my home, and even witnessed a loud snap of wood from my office.
This cannot continue like this at all, completely unacceptable
http://vibrationdamage.com/constdam.htm
I have emailed the Town engineer since July about how this was affecting my home
The mayor, the hackettstown pd, and the project manager for maser consulting have now been brought into the emails since Wednesday the 13th and I have not heard anything back from anyone.
This has gone from a nuisance, to a major concern with warnings given, to now potentially major damage done, and the town has done nothing to stop it from continuing, and has not even implemented the seismographs as promised back in October 2015 when this all started.
Every neighbor on this street has in some way or another informed the town they were experiencing vibrations that were causing damages, and it was just allowed to continue, without any monitoring.
No response?..gee why doesn't that surprise me Darrin. Sorry you and your neighbors have to endure that for such a long period of time without any relief.
Have you or your any of your neighbors spoken to a lawyer yet about these issues that continue?
The mayor did respond late last night saying she has to talk about the situation to the town engineer and then they will be contacting us after they speak
yes darrin, lawyer up and empower yourself to take some action, OnTheEdge is quite right
this is typical for our mayor and town council to do nothing while an honest taxpaying citizen gets hosed by a developer.
for them all to sit idly by while your house is destroyed is just god awful. and unacceptable. period! what the heck do these folks do anyways besides raise taxes all the time? (nothing, they do nothing)
take all of you recent email chains and forward them to the CEO of CVS. Also Print them all out and send them by registered mail to him. Write a terse cover letter and include that in the envelope. Save the signed receipt for the registered mail communications and keep taking videos. Lots and lots of videos. send them all over, the mayor, the developed, the franchise owner, the ceo and all the papers the star ledger, the express times and the record.and the radio and tv stations.
BrotherDog 
They did absolutely nothing despite my multiple warning emails.
Lawyer will be involved as a last resort. I want to give them a chance to correct the issue as respectful licensed professionals should. The town engineer is suppose to work for the town, not the developer. He should have been much more vigilant on this, and not allowed it to continue when he knew there were complaints coming from just about every resident on this street. If they don't, everyone will be encompassed in a suit, every single professional that knew of the vibration issues.
This is their chance to do the right thing.
Yes, I know I am crazy for allowing them time to do the right thing, when, since July 2015 they have not done anything.
We were promised seismographs and monitoring back in October 2015 (I have this in writing as meeting minutes from the town engineer), and I asked, and asked, requested, and requested ever since then, and nothing was ever done, all while they were allowed to keep using the vibrating compactor.
And Now I have a large crack in my basement I know is new, as well as a closet door that no longer properly opens.
"this is typical for our mayor and town council" - BrotherDog, you live in Independence, it's not even your town. You have no idea of what's going on here.
Still, I'm every sympathetic to what's happening. If the oversight isn't doing there job they it's time to call in the oversight's oversight. Push to hold them up until any monitoring equipment is put in. Push to have the performance bond increased because the chances they will have to pay out of it has increased. And document, document, document. You need dated before and after pictures.
Basically you can sue for damage; a closet door won't bring much but a cracked foundation is better.
Harder to do but better yet is have neighbors all pitch in to hire one lawyer for the group. Again, damage is where you get the payout.
Good luck. Last time I tried we couldn't get everyone on the same page and it was expensive to go it alone.
Is it small enough for small claims? That's more painful for them than for you given you can diy.
I purchased a crack monitor, next day air
http://www.amazon.com/CRACKMON%C2%AE-5020AV-Reinforced-Foundations-Retrofits/dp/B00UVUJG3G?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00
From now on, the police will be called every time the vibratory compactor is used and police reports will be filed until I am told, in writing, what will be going on to resolve this issue, as well as moving forward.
I wasted too much time trying to handle this situation through the normal channels, and it was proven to me that nothing was done, and now I have serious damage to my home because of it.
I am literally sick to my stomach thinking about i, I thought I could trust the professionals.
Just so happens I have pictures from when my natural gas conversion was done in November 2015, and you can see that crack was not there. The pictures only show the tail end (by the floor) of the crack though
This picture was taken 1-21-2016
And this one today. I circled the crack. The mark next to it that you can see in the first photo is a small scrape on the wall.
I tried to take this photo from the same angle.
I have other photos too, I am searching through my photos to see if I have anything higher up where it is most noticable
last time I checked, you need proof to win a lawsuit. I think you will need more than pictures of damages. You have to prove the CVS construction caused the issue. I think you would probably spend way too much in experts (seismographs, structural engineers) than the actual damages are worth.
Brad, I have emails upon emails requesting seismographs and home inspections dating back to July 2015, as well as clearly stating that I was afraid damage was going to be done to my home, as well as others homes.
My house has been here since the 1920s....what has changed between 1-21-2016 and 4-18-2016 that would of caused this damage? The only thing that has occurred was major ground movements that I have time and time again showed concern over.
Hire a lawyer, file suit. Name CVS, the developer, the town and the engineer personally (I believe they can be sued personally, check with the lawyer). File for an injunction to cease the work until they install the install the monitoring equipment mandated by the town engineer (at the very least).
This is the same thing I said back in October when you were talking about them not following the engineers plan about compaction layer sizes... The developer/construction companies won't respond to anything but an impact on the bottom line, and the town doesn't seem to be interested in representing your interests. The only person whose top priority is your own interests is yourself.
I tend to agree especially since it appears the mayor and others that you have raised the issue to have pretty much blown you off. Meet with one or two very good attorneys to discuss the issues and then you can decide next steps.
After all my emails this weekend, compactor was being used again.
I called the police.
Darrin your doing the right thing calling the police. The mayor and council have been kowtowing to the developer since day 1. That's the way things work in this town. They will only do something when forced to, or it becomes a nuisance to them. Wishing you luck!
Never let it be said "you can't beat town hall". Yes you can, by keeping a few steps ahead of them at all times. Darrin, it's time for you to kick it up a notch. Get those letters to the papers, social media, don't be afraid to call the networks. Being a thorn in their side is kids stuff, it's time to show them you mean business. The louder the better. No more Mr. nice guy. You've given them enough rope, now it's time to tighten it.
auntiel The town engineer and Mayors next step of action will directly depict the route I go.
The damage done was completely avoidable,. had they actually done something about my warnings.
I had no idea the extent of the damages that have occurred in your home!! That is unacceptable...!!!!You have given them a fair warning and tried to work with the Mayor and Town Council and they sat there and did nothing..... ..considering the taxes I pay in this town I would have not let this go for months on end Darrin....I would be damn pissed off too..my advice would be to seek a lawyer quick before your house falls off it's foundation.
Just because your home is damaged does not mean CVS broke any rules..a certain amount of vibration is acceptable..you need to prove they exceeded the legal limit
Brad, the fact that they had complains and concerns since July 2015, and did nothing about it except ignored it, as well as promised seismograph monitoring in October 2015, but never did, is breaking their own rules.
I have meeting minutes of the contractor agreeing to implementing these changes, yet they never did.
At that very meeting it was discovered, and documented, that the contractor was improperly sizing the lifts (not to the approved thickness), which at that time caused a great deal of excess vibrations.
Solutions were given, in writing, but they were never put into play, so how can they say that the limit was NOT exceeded?
My proof is a damaged home, what do they have to prove they didn't? Because they never did the monitoring they said they were going to do. The way I see it, the people who did not implement the monitoring they promised are liable.
I was in Hackettstown yesterday for the first time in a long time and could not help but notice the difference in the Bergen Tool property. With not being in the area and only knowing what I read here, I am wondering where the apartments and other stores are supposed to go and what will go between Bergen Street and the new construction.
Curiosity requires I ask these questions.
The police filed a report, and put on record my claim that I have damages to my home from the ground movements. The responding officer was very nice, and took the time to watch the videos I had, as well as look at the damages to my home. By the time he arrived, I assume someone had already told the developer to stop using the compactor, as it was parked.
My one neighbor has fresh drywall cracks, and another one has doors that are not opening properly. I am not sure if they have, or even have the ability to inspect their foundations, as at this time, with major damage, I can only try to fix me, they need to speak for themselves.
As per my phone conversation with the town engineer, the developer was told to cease and desist use of that compactor. They were also told that if they do use that compactor without permission, a stop work order will be put on the site.
I am still concerned about ANY vibrators until the proper monitoring systems we were promised in October are put in place. With structural damage to my home, it is not a risk that I can take.
I totally understand Darrin. Complete disregard for the people that live next to this project. After months of pleas for a solution from the Town Council and the Mayor and Town Engineer!! Unexceptionable..IMO.
Does anyone have any structural mason recommendations?
I guess I will need a repair quote to give a attorney.
This sucks.
Unfortunately you needed to call the police to get any action and a response. Going
forward that seems to be your best bet although it looks like it's getting near completion from driving by. Good luck.
I spoke with the town engineer tonight, the contractor is not permitted to perform any major equipment operations until a written plan is submitted and approved.
They also now have to incorporate ground monitoring to the plan
Not sure why we are right back to where we were in October...........
Well if anyone sees any "major equipment operations" on the CVS site, feel free to call the mayor, the town engineer, the police, or preferably all three. Enough is enough with this. I still cannot figure out why, despite having meeting minutes (October 2015) where seismographs were said to have to be installed at a CVS pre construction meeting, and the developer agreed to install them, that it took this long, and damages, to finally get them installed, despite so many emails, phone calls, and conversations asking why they were not installed yet, it absolutely disgusts me the lack of professionalism that surrounds this site.
I will be keeping a close eye on them for sure.
Oh, btw, thanks to all those who said "trust our professionals", and "you are complaining just to complain"....etc. you guys were so helpful!
I think my point and case is very clear here, everyone needs to look out for their own best interest, just as I tried my hardest to do, despite what others said.
Another truck right down residential streets. Came in from East Prospect, down First, down East Stiger. Town Engineer had police respond, and they were notified from now on drivers will be ticketed, and the next time it happens a stop work order will be put on the site.
So keep your eyes out for CVS construction vehicles on residential streets, that is AGAINST their developers agreement.
Search under cracked foundation here and reccomendations come up. If not structural damage, century in sussex can protect against water. We used them, works, is not visually terrible, no worse than the crack, but a bit pricey which mjght be good in your case.
Is that a poured wall or block?
Darrin, thinking more about this, you do have one other option outside of hiring the lawyer yourself... Homeowners insurance. So long as you can get the damages covered, they will be more than happy (and have deep enough pockets) to sue the crap out of everybody involved to recoup their end.
I am all ears brendan
I thought about this, but was concerned with tipping off my insurance company that I have a cracked foundation. Also, many homeowners insurances have a clause that will not cover ground movement damages from nearby construction. I am not sure if mine has this.
See this: http://vibrationdamage.com/pursuing_a_claim.htm
Here is what my policy says:
All insureds are cautioned that homeowners and commercial fire and extended coverage insurance policies do not provide coverage for earthquake damage.
The definition of an earthquake:
is a shaking or trembling of the earth that is geologic or tectonic in nature;
includes shock waves or tremors before, during or after a volcanic eruption; and
can also include after-shocks that occur within a seventy-two hour period following an earthquake.
A typical homeowners or commercial fire and extended coverage insurance policy:
does not cover the cost to replace or repair your damaged dwelling, premises or structures, such as garages, resulting from an earthquake; does not cover the cost to replace or repair the contents of your home or business if the damages result from an earthquake; and does not pay for any additional living or business expenses if your property is badly damaged or destroyed by an earthquake.
Earthquake insurance is available through an endorsement to your policy for an additional premium.
The decision to purchase earthquake insurance is one that should be carefully considered based on individual circumstances.
Thanks for letting me know I will be on the look out for those trucks as..I walk my dog down that way.
So I talked to my insurance company, initial response is no, that's considered a earth quake, AND even if I did have earthquake insurance this still would not be covered.
I explained my case, and that there was literally not a thing more I could of done to stop it, emails to the town. mayor, d.o.t, emails and calls to the police, everyone involved, yet it did not stop. I tried everything in my power short from trespassing on the site and standing in front of the machine, yet this all continued.
My insurance agent was extremely sympathetic and hopes the regional manager will make a exception since this is a clear(ish) cut case of who caused the damages, waiting on that response. I am hopeful, but not counting on positive news.
If a attorney is the route I choose to go, I promise you that EVERYONE involved in this construction project WILL be encompassed in the suit.
I will make sure that every newspaper and radio in the area is aware of the issue the town allowed to happen here.
Sometimes you have to do what you have to do Darrin....it's been long overdue. No solution was ever put forward by the powers that be to remedy this terrible situation even though you tried and tried to work with them.
That's weird, I guess their default stance is usually to say nothing is covered, but it doesn't sound like this would meet their exemption. While what happened is a result of "shaking or trembling of the earth" it is by no means "geologic or tectonic in nature", since the origin was a man made machine. If their compaction had set off an earthquake of some sort, by releasing built up tectonic pressure or something, they would have a good shot, but it's not... If they deny it based on this, it's akin to saying the bulldozer isn't responsible for dozing your house, so long as it's pushing enough dirt in front of it and never actually comes into contact with your house... I would push a little harder with the insurance company, they may just be trying to shirk this to avoid the hassle (and it will be a hassle).
The only time I have seen a foundation covered is due to an explosion, like the one that happened in Edison many years ago. Explosion is what they called a covered peril. Your only route is if an engineer can report that your foundation was damaged by the activity at the Bergen site...
Never seen anybody drive a car into the side of a house? Somehow I think that's gotta be not that uncommon...
Bendan, look up the definition of tectonic......... it surprised me too.
tec·ton·ic
tekˈtänik/Submit
adjective
1.
GEOLOGY
of or relating to the structure of the earth's crust and the large-scale processes that take place within it.
2.
of or relating to building or construction
Brendan, the car usually impacts the stud wall first. Maybe 1k in some masonry repair but they are not going to pay for an entire foundation. That is what I was referring to.
As a FYI, most homeowners policies used to rate the "Replacement Cost" at the entire structure less the foundation, maybe an amount to prime/seal the foundation in the event of a fire. I have not personally seen a covered loss to a foundation outside of earthquake coverage.
Foundations settle over time, it is normal. Having a high PSI poured or engineered concrete walls (e.g. Superior Walls) helps. Many old foundations were mortar and stones, and in Darrin's photos looks to be this but it was covered with a layer or so of concrete...
Please, let me try again. I do not live in New Jersey but was a resident of Hackettstown for more than 35 years, relocating to another state in 1999. I make periodic visits to my "home town" and try to note the changes, good and bad.
It has been awhile since I was last in Hackettstown and because of business, only had a limited amount of time but since it was a Sunday, did not find anyone with the information I am requesting here.
Where do plans show locating apartments and stores on the CVS property? The people I spoke with Sunday had no idea, stating "yes, they are going to build apartments and stores," so I am asking here if anyone might give me a two sentence (or even one) idea of where these projects will go on that property. Will it impact the old ball field? I lived on Fourth Street in the 1960's and remember the happy sounds of people playing ball there.
Then, driving east on 46 and noticing how much difference it makes when there is nothing between the new CVS building and Bergen Street. Is there anyone knowledgeable enough to provide answers to a former Hackettstonian? Certainly would appreciate it.
Darrin, (whoever you are) I sure hope you get your situation corrected. Best of luck in efforts to do so!!
The plans for the remaining buildings have not been formally submitted yet. But to answer your question the town homes will be toward the back of the property and the retail will be next to CVS
Lone star, the plans, throughout their multiple stages have all been discussed in depth on this very thread.
Unfortunately, with only having conceptual plans on record at town hall, and the developer for phase two not being able to complete his application enough to warrant a planning board meeting, we are all unsure what the plans really entail.
Sorry for the lack of response, but I was, and still am, more concerned about the damage phase 1 did to my home and the fact that the town allowed this to continue up to the point of damage then I am with discussing something that has not even made its first planning board debut.
From what the ordinance allows, three acres open space in the rear, 66 town homes towards the rear/middle, and 44 apartments and retail toward the front. In seeing the plans, where the ball field is will become a retention pond. This could all change though, like I said, it has not even come in front of the planning board once since the new ordinance.
Darrin,
I can't even imagine stuffing 66 Townhomes and 44 apartments on that property plus retail..???
The official #s the developer are asking for is 108 total units. 66 townhomes and 42 apartments. So 2 less apartments then the ordinance's max allowance. That's nice of them.
Lmao Darwin. I think they are going to need more drainage provisions. The temporary retention area by bergen street fills up just about every heavy rain storm. Still not sure how the trout brook is going to handel all this added water, but i have not gotten a good look at the complete plans.
Don't forget the deluge of water from the heavy rain storms that runs down East Stiger pools on Fourth Street overflows and runs down behind the ball field between the bike ramps and beyond.
Special thank you to Darrin for the information. I started to read the thread and after about 10 minutes decided it was more productive to ask my question directly as I was totally confused by numerous changes discussed. In some posts it sounded as if anger were being directed at the fact the property was sold and in others, the conduct of the Mayor and planning board were questioned, sounding like sour grapes than fact.
I finally gave up and sought a direct approach and got the answer I was seeking. Thank you!
Obviously you never attended the meetings like some of us..to see and hear first hand how this is played out Lone Star.
@pampurr: Lonestar wrote earlier in this thread, "I do not live in New Jersey but was a resident of Hackettstown for more than 35 years, relocating to another state in 1999. I make periodic visits to my "home town" and try to note the changes, good and bad."
Take it easy pampurr, there are some on this thread that have devoted so much time and effort to this project and actually know what they are talking about, and have attended most to all of the meetings since the very beginning, some which think they know what they are talking about, and others who have no idea yet think the rumors they heard are correct, so i welcome clarification questions, much as lone star posted, it keeps the most current data out there for people to read . It is certainly much better then those people who have never been at a meeting for the project trying to explain what is going on, or starting the battles lone star speaks about on this thread.
The problem lone star is that the developer has changed their mind so many times with what they want on their property, and has gotten the ordinance changed each time they change their mind, so this thread, dating back to 2013, has a few of the stages the property has been through discussed.
Take it easy "Pampurr" Excuse me? I may remind you that my husband and I have been on this from the very beginning gathering data and are very concerned the way this project has been handled from the inception.. Stephen has lived here for sixty years. More than most of you that are commenting on this thread....and just because he or I do NOT show up at a meeting does not mean we are not supportive of your efforts and many others that want to see this job done correctly. We want what is best for the town too!!
Pampur, my comment about take it easy was the fact that lone star did state they do not live in town, they were just looking for info.
The rest was not directed at you, sorry if it seemed that way, it was ment to be a broad statement explaining why there is such a broad array of facts and opinions on this forum that lone star noticed.
".. Stephen has lived here for sixty years. More than most of you that are commenting on this thread"
what does that have to do with anything?
"gathering data" - You've consistently said others don't have much of a right to complain as well as call on everyone else to show up and do something. You haven't shown up and done something.
"want to see this job done correctly" - You've done everything from the start with this project and others in the town to completely scuttle them. That's not doing it correctly, that's not doing it at all. It's not 1956 any more.
GC you have no idea what people have done behind the scenes now do you? You have no clue..
Scuttle them??HA... GC..they have done that to themselves nothing to do with me.
To be honest there needs to be a change on the dais in this town. just sayin
pampurr - I know who went to a meeting and lied about it. I know the people who constantly say everyone has to speak up and yet sit on their hands and let other liars speak at meetings. Then try to deflect it saying it was all someone else's doing.
Yet the Council who don't even make the decisions on planning or zoning are the ones that need to change. Just sayin.
Oh really, GC who are those other liars you speak of? Stephen and myself?
BTW GC we need leadership on the dais..not push overs that cave into the developer non stop.
Pampurr - No, not the two of you although thank you for the private *nastygram* telling me to cease and desist from saying the two of you were married. I meant the failed business person who you used as a source of a Main Street incident that turned out to be false. And during the Council meeting they were seriously recommending criminal prosecution for a false report. The one who blamed the failed business on "demographics" as a key word, hint, hint, nudge, nudge that you agreed with and spread the lie. I can't possibly believe you don't know who that is.
In case you forgot any of this that's documented on the Forum:
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/16319
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/724821
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/98803
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/558447#t599672
GC, correct me if I am wrong, but the town council is who decides on the ordinances to allow certain things on the property. They were the ones who voted to allow town homes and apartments, as well as retail.
Yes zoning and planning reviewed it as well, but ultimately their recommendations did not matter to the town council....i was at all of those meetings, and saw it for myself. The planning board made many recommendations to the council about the new ordinance, none of which were put into use.
As a update to the ground movement issue, developer came up with a plan asking to be allowed 2 PPV (in/sec) of ground movement, town engineer declined that request and said they need to maintain a maximum of 0.5 PPV (in/sec)
In my research I found it seems even the to be allowed .5 PPV is higher then allowed standards, this was quoted from Chapter 12 of the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) standard:
FTA Vibration Limits
Building Category PPV (in/sec)
I. Reinforced-concrete, steel or timber (no plaster) 0.5
II. Engineered concrete and masonry (no plaster) 0.3
III. Non-engineered timber and masonry buildings 0.2
IV. Buildings extremely susceptible to vibration damage 0.1
It also goes on to say "A typical modern, wood-framed home with drywall ("sheetrock", "gypsumboard") interiors and essentially no prior damage would be considered a Class III building. A home significantly damaged by construction, or any historic home or structure, should probably be considered as a Class IV structure."
http://vibrationdamage.com/Vibration_standards.htm
There is way more to it than this, but wanted to post a brief update so any of you engineers out there have any recommendations or knowledge can chime in.
Looks like the project is on the agenda
AGENDA
1. Sunshine Act
2. Roll Call
3. Pledge of Allegiance
4. Approval of minutes – March 22, 2016
5. Resolutions – None
6. Case #16-02, Warren County Board of Chosen Freeholders
Block 44, Lot 8
7. Case #16-01, Jade Hackettstown Associates, LLC
Block 21, Lot 18
8. Old Business
9. New Business
10. Adjournment
We received a registered letter from the developer's attorney, Lavery,Selvaggi, Abromitis and Cohen, PC ....about the public meeting on May 24....they do not mention an open space "recreational area"..only a walking trail and stormwater management system....WTH? New roadway too?
Rice is looking for bulk-variance relief from the Town's ordinance requirements related to parking lot setbacks and rear to rear building separation.
Mr Rice was at the meeting where the town approved these ordinances a few months ago, now he is already looking for relief? Somehow I am not surprised.
No, no, and NO to anything that will allow this site to be even more crowded then initially proposed. These ordinances were set in place to keep from housing crowding, they must not be allowed to be "adjusted"
Darrin, 108 Multi-Family residential dwelling units consisting of 66 Townhomes and 42 apartments 15,900 square feet of commercial space with related parking, construction of a new municipal roadway to connect Bergen and Stiger Streets..
The applicant will apply for such variances and waivers as may be required upon the analysis and testimony offered regarding the plans at the public meeting. Here we go again.
So we recieved the letter today?
Law states:
The applicant is required by law to serve all property owners within 200 feet of the subject property with notice of the hearing NO LATER than 10 days prior to the hearing. (The date of the hearing does not count as one of the ten days)
So this meeting should not occur?
If I am reading this right, we were served the letter 8 days prior, not the required 10 days.
Darrin, as long as they got the notice in the newspaper within the statutory time period, I've never seen them cancel a meeting because a resident said they got their letter late. Besides... they sent it certified, correct? Check the postmark. That's what legally needs to be within 10 days. They aren't responsible for the Hackettstown post office's delivery speed.
Also, the developer is requesting bulk variances, not density variances. It shouldn't affect the number of units he's entitled to, just the way in which he fits them on the property.
Does anyone know the square footage and estimated selling prices of the proposed townhomes? Sounds like a nice convenient area for people that would like to live in town.
BrandyB I was not sure if it was post marked date or recieved date. The way the law is written is unclear. And i have seen them cancel meetings because people did not recieved the correct notification.
There have been added drainage, and other provisions to the property that may limit the number of units as per the initial setbacks, by requesting variances to these setbacks they will be allowed to put the full number of units on site in a much more cramped fashion. Of course this is all speculation until we see the plans, but i would wager this is exactally what it is.
For instance if you have 10 acres to build on and are allowed UP to 108 homes with a 20ft seperation (keeping this simple) and then that 10 acers becomes 8 acres, you are no longer going to be able to fit 108 homes with a 20 foot seperation. So you either drop some units and keep the the ordinace (as it should go) or try to weasel out of the ordenance and cram your 108 homes on less acerage.
I would love to know what is going to become of those huge mounds in the back of the property called the "bicycle ramps". I recall they did a study to determine what those huge mounds consist of.
Pretty much one mound of casting sand that they could truck out in one day with some planning .
Why mention the testing of the sand without the results? The results were discussed *ad nauseum* before, and Darin specifically started the whole thread saying it was nothing but motorbike oil drips. "Casting sand" = debunked myth. No need to continue the lies.
They can do anything they want the sand.
Send the sand to GC and tell him life's a beach..... (take it easy, just funning).
Yes, it probably twas dirt bike oil.
Gee folks, if somehow you could use that announcement time frame to delay the meeting, wouldn't that be a first. All the other stakeholders have delayed them, seems fair for it to be the people's turn. Just tell Ray, "cool your jets, see you next month....."
If it is just "casting sand" maybe you should read this!!!
http://envirocare.org/foundry-health-risks/
That's the whole point dadof 3 - casting sand has a crap load of heavy metals and is quite dangerous. It would have required remediation under the regulations of brownfield shutdown when Bergen was closed. But the testing proved it's absolutely *not* casting sand because it's heavy metal free. Just as others had testified previously that the sand was brought in, not taken from the factory.
GC, Do you have documentation stating that it is "NOT" casting sand? Would like to see it especially since I live close by those mounds.
Yes, Pampurr, the same documentation given to you 3 years ago.
http://www.peer.org/assets/docs/nj/07_05_07_bergen_sand_finding.pdf
The same that was discussed and Darrin agreed with me here, as well as in the start of this thread:
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/568705#t704958
Back then you refused to believe the proof (FUD) because the sole reason of your son never saw motorbikes. Even if the rest of the world actually rode bikes there, you ignored the finding that no heavy metals were present. Instead you chose to concentrate on how motor oil got there. Either way, you can't say you weren't aware of this because it's documented in that thread. Despite any questions of the origin of the oil, zero casting sand is still zero casting sand. You knew that three years ago and still do.
..You know what GC... STOP with this crap...we have concerns since we live so close ..Get It??
And I still stand by my word..... we never saw Motorbikes back there. The kids use to ride their BMX bikes there.
A little three in one is the same whether it is a Motorbike or a BMX. The FUD is that oil has anything to do with "casting sand". As far as what you knew, it's right on thread there for all to see.
Hello Darrin,
May I suggest you contact NEWS 12, let them sort thru the threads of information here, see what the town will provide or dispute with them, and see what comes of it ?
I think it might get you and others answers much quicker and everyone will know what the situation is ( on live tv ! )
Good Luck !
@GC "They can do anything they want the sand."
Actually incorrect......
For the record, it has already been discussed at meetings, as well in this very forum that the sand (whatever it may be) will be dug out and used as base for the parking lots and streets within the development.
The sand IS contaminated enough that it needs to be covered by some sort of impenetrable material, and to keep from having to fence any areas (which was the developer's original solution), this is what was discussed. It was also discussed that normally used asphalt actually has more contaminates in it than the sand in question.
I do believe the board referred to these sand piles as casting sand or foundry sand during this discussion, despite what that report says GC, so that may be why they are still being referred to as casting sand. Maybe someone else who was at that meeting can confirm or correct me?
I think all the surrounding neighbors know once they start actually digging back in those woods there is going to be more found than sand.
I am 54 and as a young 10 to 13 yr old road mini motor bikes there with several friends. I lived right exactly across the tracks from the baseball field. I saw kids smoking cigs, pot, fights, bike riders and kids playing manhunt. Lots if broken glass and tires. Many of us went home with scraped legs, broken bones and memories. Just saying!
I really wish they would leave this part of town with a recreation field of some sort but it looks like that reality is not going to be. Greedy people..
Greedy people? You make a living doing whatever and some make a living another way. For example, if your pulling a pension the underlying money is generally invested in the stock market (and when they get crazy and use hedge funds with non-traditional investments then they are gambling and greedy). Without returns the funds to pay pensions would be exhausted very fast, they need returns on investment.
Think from 100k feet. Then you will see that you stated POV is shallow and simplistic...
No IJay, these are greedy people. Their specialty is in "renovating" distressed properties not as a labor of love but an exercise in profit. It's buy really low from desperate people, get fantastic allowances, and then construct highly profitable strip malls and lower income housing (who else would buy there).
They don't even use their track record as advertising.
iJay - Shallow and simplistic like "Zionists are at the root of all our problems?". Just because *you* make a living the same way the developers do doesn't excuse it. I agree with pampurr on that one - the developer agreed to the open area so what ever profit there is on the entire deal is just fine. The reneging seems to be related to a higher density of apartments than the parking might allow. If so, that's the developers issue to deal with. Just because the guy might make $2.1 mill total profit instead of $2.2 mill is a matter of greed. Still a good profit made on the whole deal even with the open space component.
Darrin - I stand corrected on what they will actually do with the sand. I was not aware it had been included in their work plan. I was saying they could have chosen to do something else like have it hauled away, etc, even though that's not what they decided to do. But thanks for the whole point of it all - "asphalt actually has more contaminates in it than the sand in question".
As for why others still call it casting sand, I can't speak for the board. But people here on the forum that have gone over this *to death* and know well better is another story. That's FUD.
I personally don't think any of us should even be concerned with if the developer makes a profit. He will try every way he can to get variances to ordinaces and such so he can make as much as possible. The town needs to stick to the plan, and like GC said, if he makes less money, his problem not ours....shoulda done more homework before buying property that has so much water flow.
Hey Darrin how about some more pictures here? This thread gets really boring sometimes without them! Thanks
+1 Darrin. A deal is a deal and no quarter given unless there's a WIFM in it for the community.
I think the report concluded that the sand danger was minimal whatever it was used for or its intended use. Think the report was vetted by environmentalist group to boot.
I wish everyone here was as worried about the millions Atlantic Healthcare is making by buying up all the hospitals, cutting staff and hurting our healthcare. Its at least 75% more profit then this developer.
Food for thought
If you want to talk about healthcare, make a different thread and start with how much obama care helped us....(sarcasm)
This thread is about the Bergen Tool project.
Yup, thats him
http://www.nj.com/warrenreporter/index.ssf/2011/01/hackettstown_mayor_michael_lav_2.html
http://lsaclaw.com/lawyers/
Hmmmmmmmmmm
"Conflict of interest much?"
Not even a little bit. His only interest is to his client. Where exactly do you perceive a conflict? Do you think that he would put the Town's interests above his client's because he was a former mayor?
Now, if he was the BOARD attorney and Ray Rice was a former client, then there could certainly be a perceived conflict.
iphone-imal - even if he could, Mr. Lavery doesn't even do the work for Rice, Mr Selvaggi does. In all the vast number of times you've been to board meetings, pampurr, how many has Mr Lavery been to? Mr Selvaggi? How many times have you complained about Mr Selvaggi representing Centenary?
Hmmmmmmmmmm
It's still the same firm.......and he was a former mayor......you cannot tell me the former Mayor of hackettstown does not still have connections in Hackettstown.
The Chairman of the board as well as other board members have stepped down many times because they had dealings with applicant's attorneys (not even presently)......so what is the difference if it is vice versa?
http://www.mass.gov/ethics/education-and-training-resources/implementation-procedures/municipal-employee-summary.html
(b) One year cooling-off period. For one year after you leave your municipal job you may not participate in any matter over which you had official responsibility during your last two years of public service.
Former municipal employees are barred for one year after they leave municipal employment from personally appearing before any agency of the municipality in connection with matters that were under their authority in their prior municipal positions during the two years before they left.
Does this apply? Sorry, but this is not my best area of knowledge
And then there is this, which seems to say the opposite (from the same site)
(a) Forever ban. After you leave your municipal job, you may never work for anyone other than the municipality on a matter that you worked on as a municipal employee.
If you participated in a matter as a municipal employee, you cannot ever be paid to work on that same matter for anyone other than the municipality, nor may you act for someone else, whether paid or not. The purpose of this restriction is to bar former employees from selling to private interests their familiarity with the facts of particular matters that are of continuing concern to their former municipal employer. The restriction does not prohibit former municipal employees from using the expertise acquired in government service in their subsequent private activities.
Example of violation : A former school department employee works for a contractor under a contract that she helped to draft and oversee for the school department.
Good find, Darrin!!!!...and GC I have no idea what your spewing about me complaining about Mr Selvaggi representing Centenary? HMMMMMM
"The Chairman of the board as well as other board members have stepped down many times because they had dealings with applicant's attorneys (not even presently)......so what is the difference if it is vice versa?"
Because it is the public figures who need to recuse themselves, not the private parties.
Just an FYI - A "municipal job" is different than an "elected official", of which the Mayor falls under. The current Mayor is well into her 2nd term, therefore the time limit does not apply to the past Mayor.
ForClarification Sorry GC, its what I could find on the fly. I wouldn't think ethical laws are vastly different state to state.....maybe they are....but I dont see you posting any info stating otherwise.....
And who is to say that the old mayor of Hackettstown does not still have dealings with any public figures in town?
If he does, they should recuse themselves from any work he does in town. That's how it works...
For instance, my firm does a lot of municipal engineering work in NJ and PA and one of our PA offices did some private-side work for Toll Brothers once upon a time. Now, whenever a Toll application comes up in any of our towns, we recuse ourselves from reviewing the application and the Board has a "conflict engineer" on retainer for just that very purpose. But you couldn't "do the opposite" and tell Toll that they aren't allowed to make application because they once hired the Planning Board Engineer's firm in a different state.
Similarly, there are plenty of instances where municipalities will change Board Engineers. Do you think that should mean that a former engineer should never be allowed to do private work in that town ever again? It doesn't work that way...
Okay, ian, so for instance, and this is just a figurative example, if our current mayor had dealings with this law firm, or the developer, she would have to step down? Or if any board members have dealings with this law firm they have to step down?
And here GC
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/dlgs/programs/ethics_docs/lgethics.pdf
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/dlgs/programs/ethics.html
http://www.nj.gov/ethics/statutes/conflicts/index.html
Law firm, no. Developer, yes. Although, what would she be stepping down from? She's not on the Planning Board, is she?
The town concil aproved the ordinances for the property.
The reason I am confused is because like I said, the chairman has stepped down from the planning board on more then one account for a similar circumstance
For clarification GC your statement....."How many times have you complained about Mr Selvaggi representing Centenary?"
Can you show me proof of where I said this.
pampurr - You're proving my point. I never said you did, I was asking a question. Your response indicates the answer is none. You're trying to make implications about their representation in the Bergen project yet you've never questioned their representation of Centenary before the board. That makes no sense if it was really about a conflict of interest.
GC, maybe pampurr was unaware that the law firm was representing Centenary as well, there is no reason to be rude.
We all know not everyone follows every single project in town, and a lot of times these variance letters that are sent to people are real eye openers. I know when I moved here, I knew nothing of this project. It was not until I received a variance letter from CVS that I got as involved as I now am. Now I know where to look for agendas, know when the meetings are, and know (somewhat ;-) ) about what is going on.
There is more to this story then what is directly in front of you GC. I have posted links in the past, and if anyone took the time to do some research your eyes would be WIDE open. If you would like more info you can directly contact me.
Darrin, Do you have a copy of the letter to Lisa Jackson Ex Commissioner of the NJDEP regarding the Hackettstown ISRA Case? If not I will have a copy made and give it to you at the meeting. Outlines alot of good points...
I do not believe I have seen that pampurr
Reminder, Planning Board Meeting tonight at 7:30 pertaining to phase 2 of the project looking to add 108 residentials and 15,600 sq ft of commercial space, along with bulk variance relief from the town ordinance, a stormwater management plan, and open space. Bring all concerns, questions, or ideas.
As you said Darrin. There is alot more to this story than what has been on these threads.
They want to dig up my water line to the shut off valve. Could this damage this tree? The base of the tree is 6 feet from the shut off valve, with a main root headed right for the valve.
The tree is VERY large
A typical rule of thumb is that the root system of deciduous trees extends to (or in some cases, beyond) the "drip line" of the branches. If they're digging inside that, there will definitely be root damage, but whether it will have an adverse effect on the health of the tree, I couldn't say for sure.
Good to know animal, The tree hangs out well over the road (well beyond this area they want to dig). I spoke to the town engineer about my concern, sent an email to the mayor, and took pictures as a baseline. This tree better not be damaged, as it is on my property, not the town property.
If you want to talk about healthcare, make a different thread and start with how much obama care helped us....(sarcasm)
This thread is about the Bergen Tool project.
Darrin
I knew you wouldn't care.I can state what I want when I want as long as the Moderators don't delete me. And the same goes to you.
This thread is just a bashing thread. now you are assuming Lavery has influence over CVS? Town? WOW!! just WOW!!!!
This thread is toxic
?
Did I say I didn't care? You brought up a point that has nothing to do with this thread up (also known as hijacking a thread), if you are so inclined, and really do care, start a thread about it and I will join you there.
Moving on..........
Did anyone such as the town engineer find out from the utility companies the legal state and federal laws about the right of ways along Bergen St?
This is a major factor as the actual foot print of Bergen Tool has been removed.
The sight plan should show the set back from the utility power lines.
The builder must comply with the setback . This would make a major change to the building plans.
Paul should ask the mayor to have Jersey Central Power and Light to view the plans and see if this project is within the laws of the legal right of way.
Our construction official should also be notified and see what the laws read on a newly developed building without an existing footprint to go by.
The homes on Bergen St. that were build had to abide by a 50 foot setback.
Darrin, you are right on top of the issues and many people agree with you.
Thanks for your outstanding dedication to our town.
Charlie
FYI CVS posted an ad in the classifieds that they have job openings for the new store.
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/classifieds/34729
Agenda for planning board meeting June 28th, phase two is on the agenda, as they were incomplete last time and did not show.
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Hackettstown Planning Board will be held
Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 7:30 PM in the Municipal Building, 215 Stiger Street,
Hackettstown, New Jersey.
AGENDA
1. Sunshine Act
2. Roll Call
3. Pledge of Allegiance
4. Approval of minutes – May 24, 2016
5. Resolutions – None
6. Case #16-01, Jade Hackettstown Associates, LLC
Block 21, Lot 18
7. Old Business
8. New Business
9. Adjournment
We need the neighborhood to show up and give their feedback on this phase 2of the project. Don't just sit at home and think your opinion doesn't count. Come out and bring along another neighbor. Hope to see you there, especially those of you who squawk on the forum but never come to the meetings.
Chris Morpeth Very true Chris, I do not think people understand the magnitude of what is trying to be passed here.
They want to add 66 townhomes, 42 apartments, and retail to the remaining property that was once bergen tool. The impact that will have on our town is quite large and should be questioned.
The developer is asking for bulk variance relief from building setbacks, building to street setbacks, yard size, etc, to fit the maximum number of units on the site. This should not be allowed, these ordinances were just agreed to less than a year ago.
We need to make sure we end up with a safe development, not just buildings stacked next to buildings. The developer is looking to put in 17 buildings (last I saw).
The people who think they have seclusion from the site because they have trees in their back yard bordering the site or on the site.....you guys are in for a rude awakening if you do not voice your opinions. Your new backyard view is not going to be so private anymore. Now is your chance to see the plans and public input is welcomed and needed at these meetings.
Looks like tomorrow night's meeting is the one to attend. We need our town citizens to show up and give their feedback on this phase 2 of the project. Come out and bring along another neighbor. Your opinions count! Don't just sit at home. Hope to see you there!
"The developer is asking for bulk variance relief from building setbacks, building to street setbacks, yard size, etc, to fit the maximum number of units on the site. This should not be allowed, these ordinances were just agreed to less than a year ago."
Is this zoning-speak for zero front and back yards?
Sounds like they will be building apartments with townhouse prices.......
East Stiger street will be under reconstruction the remainder of this week, and closed to thru traffic. So far i have been shocked at how many people are still using the street despite the road closed/local traffic only signs on both ends....guess poeple cant read.....the neighbors don't appreciate it, as the road is mostly dirt and when people who are not local to first and stiger use the street, they do not drive like they are in a construction zone, and kick up so much dust which is getting into our homes.
Meeting on phase two townhomes/retail/apartments is tonight at 7:30, see you there
Yes Darrin I agree that is why I try to use First Street to get to my house on E. Stiger when possible as it kicks up a lot of dust on your end of the street. Today I was unable to get out of the house to go to work due to the reconstruction of that end of the street! Several times we have had no mail delivery nor garbage pick-up due to them working on this CVS Project!
If you could not get out of your house, that is absolutely unacceptable, and I would make the town engineer aware. This project should not have us missing work. I see where they started and had your house blocked completely off for the better half of this morning....how are they allowed to do that? Starting at 7am when most people leave for work no less........
We too mave had multiple issues with mail and package deliveries....UPS will not come down the street because of the road closed signs, yet multiple passing through people have no problem driving right past the signs.
Should be interesting now that we have no pavement to see if people still use this road as a cut through. There is absolutely no excuse to be using this road unless you live on it, there is clear as day road closed signs on both ends.
I went to work this morning but had to drive thru our yard and over the wet soggy grass to get to the street and left tire track behind me. This has happened on many occasions during this long drawn out project!
Hopefully it won't be as dusty now as we have had some rain to calm the dust down!
Luckily you were able to get out, but you shouldn't of had to drive across you grass to do so....it can't be that hard for these contractors to do one section of the road at a time, leaving an area that is drivable to the houses on this street. It all comes down to respect to the people who live here. They only had my driveway blocked for about a hour, and as soon as it was unblocked they graded the road and asked if I could use first to go out and to be careful.
The residents of this street have endured ongoing construction every day, usually 6 days a week, for over two years.... starting at 6:30-7 am This project was very poorly managed between allowing them to build prior to D.O.T, and allowing them to break written rules with just warnings. Our town should re consider construction hours in residential areas, as well as implement written consequences in developer's agreements, and I hope that will be done with phase 2.
I surely hope this is a lesson learned to our planning board on future projects in town. It is not fair to make residents endure this, and I wouldn't wish what we have been through on anyone. Unfortunately, with the road grading that will be ongoing this week, I am afraid to say this will be the worst part of this project for us. I went to lunch before and had to take my truck, because you cannot make it out with a car.
Just a reminder 7:30 meeting tonight for phase two at town hall. If you are interested in what they are trying to do with the remainder of the bergen tool property, i recommend you come, this is a public meeting, all are welcome.
I saw this too late. How did the meeting go? Also have they said anything about the impact on the school system?
Thanks!
Dianne Dianne, this was only the first meeting of many more to come, the next meeting about this project will be July 26th, so no sweat, feel free to come to the next one.
They only went over the basics of the plans last night, nothing really in depth.
Thanks to all of those who came out last night to the planning board meeting. It was good to see and hear from those of us in the community that care about our neighborhood. The planning board is always respectful enough to let the public speak and voice our concerns.
As Darrin stated above, the meeting was just a general overview of the plan. The developer will be making some suggested changes to the plan that will be presented at the next meeting on July 26th. This will be a meeting not to miss, if you have concerns or comments.
last night we saw the general layout of the site including the # and type of buildings, the architectural look of the buildings and the open space area. it was a good first look of their plan but our town engineer did have changes that they will make and address the plan in more detail at the next meeting.
Also at the next meeting will be their environmental expert to discuss the cleanup. Which should be important for local residents to hear/question.
I would strongly suggest looking at the plans for the project prior to the meeting so that you can see what is currently planned prior to the changes. The phase 2 section shown last evening includes Retail space with 2 floor apartments above and 66 ( mixture of 2 or 3 bedroom) townhouses ..
It appears the construction team is more concerned with paving the CVS parking lot then finishing East Stiger Street which is currently in shambles from them.
Meanwhile the residents of this street are left with a dusty dirt road that turns to mud when it rains, and has deep unsafe ditches in various places.
Glad the town allowed the developer to get their priorities straight (NOT)
Not sure it's the same entity managing the parking lot and the streets. Streets may be guberment managed. And yes, they might come last because otherwise they just get guber'd up by the construction.
If the parking lot is being paved, that might be a good thing in that there should not be heavy equipment in there after that. Yippee???
That is par for the course Darrin..nothing has changed with that crew!!! Sorry you all have to go through that..I can't wait to see how our end of East Stiger is going to look like with construction vehicles and a dust bowl.
I don't look forward to it..UGH...
So.....I think something is funny with this seismograph monitoring.....
a few weeks ago, small compactor being run, somewhat minimal but definitely noticeable vibrations in the house, and the seismograph reads a 0.2ppv
Today, big compactor being run, stuff is walking across my desk, blinds in the house are shaking, and seismograph reads a 0.05ppv
? anyone ? Can someone please explain to me how the seismograph would read 4 times less and the vibrations be 5 times worse? 0.05ppv should not even be felt in a house I would think.
and secondly, so that means, legally, since they are allowed .5ppv, that the vibrations could potentially be 10x worse?
SD, I got an answer on the street. Contractor is waiting on gas company to finish dropping the gas lines before they finish their work. New estimated date is friday 7/15/2016. As usual, poor planning and the residents suffer. Has been the tune of this entire project.
When I was in construction, the final topping on the road was last well after anything big would be rolling. So the houses done, the driveways and cement second to last and then the final topping on the roads. We did two runs so there was a first rough coat of asphalt down.
Hard part was curbs and wastewater went in much earlier and we had to save those curbs and grates from all the crap rolling across them. Had strict curb rules since everyone treated them as if they weren't there and it made a mess to patch em up later not to mention looking ugly.
Of course we were lucky in that we had no one around us and could bang on the ground all we wanted to.
Darren
Did you happen to check Governor Crispy-Cremes list of road projects he shut down?
Bergen St. is a town street not a state street.
Christie only has the power to close down state projects. This does not include roads that are funded by federal grants either.
;"? anyone ? Can someone please explain to me how the seismograph would read 4 times less and the vibrations be 5 times worse? 0.05ppv should not even be felt in a house I would think." - darrin
hey there darrin; thought just occurred to me, and it might be a bit too late for this, but rutgers has a geology department, and i'm guessing that a doctoral student in the geology program just might have access to a seismograph that could be set up to give a contrast to the numbers coming from the contractor's machine.
i mean really it's like the butcher putting a finger on the scale isn't it? maybe keeping them more honest is in your best interests.
I agree with you Darrin - poor planning and residents have to suffer! We also have felt the vibrations the last couple of days! Was disappointed to see them there this Saturday working!
We got a letter stating that paving would be done by 07/1/16 and we would have access to our property while street was being worked on but that was a joke - as most of the time entrance for us was blocked in several areas which mean mail, garbage pick-up and recycling pick-up, etc. delays.
I can't imagine how any contractor could properly plan any work when, it seems every time they try to do any work, residents call the town to complain about something. Every complaint causes a delay. Which only draws out the length of the project. From my experience, It is a slow, difficult task to fully reconstruct a roadway while having to also keep the road accessible to local residents. This is especially difficult when the elevation of the roadway is being changed as much as it appears the elevation of Stiger street is. I would think the reason behind the elevation change is to help disperse the volume of storm water run-off that is of great concern to some of the residents.
Casual Observer cloudyday,
If you are feeling the vibrations and they are blocking your driveway, then you should put a call into the town engineer and let the town know. This way the town realizes this is not just affecting one or two people but a whole neighborhood. These contractors just seem to do what they please and this shouldn't be the case. There are rules in place and they need to follow them.
At the last planning board meeting a woman came in and complained that she had dust throughout her house when they were crushing up the brick and tearing down the buildings. Well the contractors should have been wetting down the dust and dirt during that construction but they would just do it for one day and that was it. Had she spoke up to the right people when it was going on, something could have been done. Instead she will just get frustrated and re-dust her house. We need hold these contractors to their agreements with the town and not let all this nonsense just happen. Some of the things they pull is just not acceptable and we as a community need to let them know that we are not going to take it.
I have tried so hard to remain nice and cooperative during this lengthy process, but when my wife calls me while I am at work, nearly in tears because our personal belongings are falling off of our shelves quicker than she can catch them due to the compaction vibrations affecting my home, that is where I draw the line of being completely unreasonable.
Today the contractors ran the large compactor within 30 feet of my home, a home which has already endured structural damage from this very compactor, a compactor which was previously removed from the site due to the impact it had on the surrounding homes when being used much further away. Enough is enough.
I had sent a email about this large compactor shaking stuff off my desk on Friday when it was being used across the street from my house. Apparently bringing this up fell on deaf ears, because they did not change a thing and proceeded to use that same compactor directly in front of my home today.
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Hackettstown Planning Board will be held Tuesday, July 26, 2016 at 7:30 PM in the Municipal Building, 215 Stiger Street, Hackettstown, New Jersey.
AGENDA
1. Sunshine Act
2. Roll Call
3. Pledge of Allegiance
4. Approval of minutes - June 28, 2016
5. Resolutions - None
6. Case #16-01, Jade Hackettstown Associates, LLC
Block 21, Lot 18
7. Old Business
8. New Business
9. Adjournment
Reminder, 7:30pm meeting tonight on Phase two of Bergen Tool. 108 residentials, and retail space looking to be added. There should be engineer reports tonight on traffic and storm water I believe. Good meeting for concerned, interested, and affected residents to come to.
Tuesday nights meeting was a utter s*** show of the developer attempting to steamroll the planning board. The developer's representative talked incredibly fast, jumped all over, and did not stop for many questions while jumping from one topic to another. Considering ALL off the developers professionals and our town planner showed up late to the meeting, and came in together, along with the property owner, I can only assume this was a orchestrated plan of attack on the board to try to rush a decision.
The project got very close to being approved, but thankfully the board chairman demanded to stick with the policy of allowing public to speak, and the meeting is being carried to next month. Public REALLY needs to show up to this next meeting to express their concerns/questions. I cannot stress how important this is.
The number of public who showed up at Tuesdays meeting was just depressing. I just cannot believe that many people are being affected by this project and do not have concerns/questions. I suspect this is because of the developers devoted drive to not re-notice the public, and even went as far as researching their legal need to re-notice.
Oh, and BTW, already a parking lot is proposed to be moved into the open space because the developer refuses to adjust their plan accordingly.
I would suggest that residents on E. Prospect St and the surrounding neighborhood especially from First St. to Fifth Street and the residents of Bergen St, should look at the proposed plans for the rest of the Bergen Tool Property. I believe they are available during business hours at the Town Hall. The plan shows a retention basin being added to aid in the runoff into the Bergen Tool property and it looks like it is located on the Bergen Tool property behind the houses on E.Prospect in what is now overgrown grass, from the intersection of Second and E. Prospect up to the intersection of Third and E.Prospect. There are "entrances" into the Open Space portion from Third St and Fourth St. There are decks proposed on all of the Townhouse buildings, the Traffic plan shows that the access streets are mostly one way inside of the Townhouse portion of the plan.
If you want your comments heard by the board the August meeting is the place to have them heard.. .once the plan is voted on there will be no changes from the Planning Board unless the developer brings the plan back.. as they say it is "Speak Now or Forever hold your Peace"...
Retention ponds can be sink holes or grassy dips, you never know.
If decks are on the second story, what a bummer to the neighbors.
Are one-way streets, developer speak for skinny roads?
Certainly sounds like the neighbors should turn up. Everything sounds like more congested than nice.
while I disagree with Darrin's assumption and how he described how the meeting went I will agree that the public needs to show up. And like Michele said August's meeting is the last time to be heard.
Darwin, why else would every single professional show up at the same exact time (+/- 10 minutes late)? Did they rent a bus and come in together? And to see Ray Rice and his partner Paul show up prior to the meeting to inform the board everyone (8+ of the developers professionals) were going to be late........come on, don't be silly. What else would of caused this?
SD, yes, one way streets with no on the street parking, plus the developer is asking for bulk variances to buildings setbacks, etc as spelled out in the ordinance for the property, so that they can fit their max alloted units on the site. They seem very unwilling to drop some units to make the site safer/more usable/more sellable. All they seem to care about is their max units.
Jdem, I saw that too. Seems like a very expensive mistake, if it was in fact a mistake. No other reason really to tear it all out.
Judging by the other work done on this project, I am honestly not surprised.
There is curbs cracking all over, both on East Stiger, and in CVS's parking lot
The town engineer made them completely redo the front of my driveway and claimed it was "bulls***" the way the attempted to do it.
They still have grading and curb work to complete in front of my home, as they damaged my existing curbing and did not repair or replace it, just paved it in.
They left most of the stumps in my neighbor's yard from trees they cut down and just planted grass around them.
They filled the front of my other driveway with mud and told my neighbor it was quarry process that would pack down in the rain when she asked wtf.
All you can do is laugh when you see what these guys try to get away with, so I am not surprised to see this. Luckily for us, our town engineer is incredibly vigilant in making sure these items are taken care of, and the project is done right. Most likely the reason for tens of thousands of dollars of brand new sidewalk being removed.
I heard that the sidewalk had a lot of defects in it. The State and the town are making the developer replace the sidewalk.
Haste makes waste. it seems.
Darrin,
That "Mud" sure looked like DGA (Dense Graded Aggregate). DGA is quarry processed stone, with a small amount of fines. The reason DGA is used in driveways and roads, is because it is a compactible material. You should stop posting lies all the time.
Tired of the lies Darrin and anybody else concerned with how this project is going down-
If you feel you're being steamrolled and your concerns aren't being addressed at these meetings, your best bet is to become a bigger threat to the people who can do something about it (the board). You do that by having numbers. If the developer isn't sending additional notices to the affected parties, get together and write a one page letter sharing your concerns and send it to the whole neighborhood asking them to come to the next meeting. Stick to facts as there is probably liability otherwise. If you can show your willingness and ability to organize a group of people you will have more success having the board battle the developer. This is both out of self preservation (more people angry = less votes) and because our society is ok with trampling a small number of people "for the greater good", if that number of people starts to increase it becomes less palatable and justifiable. Add to this that those on the board who may already oppose the project (or portions of it) will now have the ammunition to fight with.
Lies? All the time? You only questioned one aspect...got anything else to back up your statement of "lies all the time"?
Look, whoever you are, you can think what you want, and say whatever you want, but all that matters to me is that the town engineer agreed on all the issues I raised, and it will be taken care of.
It's not worth my time arguing about what material they used, it's unacceptable as is, per the plans, the driveway needs to be returned to it's previous condition, and the town engineer told me they have to correct it.....end of story
Highly doubt it, coming soon signs still up, pallets blocking front doors, and the front sidewalk is not done. They need their CO to be able to open, and from what I understand there is many punchlist items still open.
Last I heard, they were shooting for 8-14-2016, but that seems to be constantly changing.
They were unload drinks and cold items today when i drove by so can't imagine they plan on it being much longer but like darrin said that whole side walk outfront is still a mess
I will be surprised if CVS or the town does not make them replace all the cracked curbs. But i do not think this will tie them up, they will probably end up fixing it while CVS is open.
The cracked curb on East Stiger is a different story. The town engineer may not allow a C.O. until everything is to satisfaction, not really sure about that one.
any news on what's happening with the Mansfield CVS? Are they staying open or are they moving to this new one?
Last i had heard they were staying open because the customer base of customers dropping off prescriptions and going into Shoprite was so good that it was worth keeping the other store open.
Darrin,
Here is some of my back up regarding your lies. These are your own words.
In October 2015 you posted…
“ My contractor noticed a crack in my foundation, and talking to my other neighbor, he has a door way that has moved and is now hard to open.”
In April 2016 you posted…
“I have damage done to my home that I know are from these ground movements including a closet door that will not open properly and a crack in my foundation from top to floor that I do not remember seeing before.”
Also in April you posted…..
“Just so happens I have pictures from when my natural gas conversion was done in November 2015, and you can see that crack was not there. The pictures only show the tail end (by the floor) of the crack though”
This picture was taken 1-21-2016”
Your next post…..
“And here is from another angle. Photo taken 1-21-2016
As you can see, no crack”
I'm no linguist or lawyer, but none of those statements appear to conflict with each other? What exactly were you trying to show as a lie, "Tired of the lies"?
Just providing a timeline.
He states that he was made aware of a crack in October. Then, in April, says the crack was not there in November, and posts a crack free picture taken in January.
You went to all that trouble to prove nothing. He may have multiple cracks, ever think off that?
Tired of the BS
Tired of the lies, I have no need to prove anything to you, you are a nobody to me, and somebody that is obviously too scared of the repercussions of slandering someone to post under a real name.
Thank you the Man for realising the obvious.....TOTL.... I potentially have multiple damages if you were not able to figure that out on your own, pretty obvious really, but you ran with the lies just cause it seemed fun?
Secondly, nothing was ever claimed about the October 2015 crack being caused by the vibrations as I had no pictures of that area prior to prove it, it was just something my contractor pointed out to me when he felt the vibrations himself, and was as well concerned about the vibrations affecting my home....but again, two different cracks.
The other "timelines" line up with each other and I have the date stamped photos to prove it....they have even been posted here, so I am not quite sure what you are trying to get at. You certainly did succeed at wasting a bunch of your time and making an utter fool out of yourself though, good job on that one! Good thing you used a troll name.
Not sure who you are, or what you are falsely trying to prove..........but there is your facts
#tiredofthelies myself
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/568705#t740968
You did not post date stamped photos. You posted pictures that aren't from the same perspective.
So, what you are saying, is that use of the destructive equipment was allowed to continue after you presented photographic proof of new damage to your home to the Town Engineer, The Mayor, and the Police? I cannot believe that your attorney did not have the project shut down completely.
weird that we got some newbies come on this thread out of the blue and bring up 4mo old posts.
Listen, i have all the proof i need, bottom line. There is no sense in me trying to prove anything on HL. I have posted some info, if you want to make claims I am a liar, have at it.
back to subject at hand, CVS is scheduled to open on 8/14, but as of last night they did not get their CO. Had to replace the sidewalk since it was installed so badly. Once they redo that which should be today? then they will get their CO and be ready to open on 8/14.
last meeting to discuss concern for Phase 2 is on Tuesday 8/23. I encourage people to show up. Like the wedding phrase goes, "Speak now or forever hold your peace"
I have no doubt in Darrin's veracity. At most, like the rest of us, he makes mistakes. But doubtful in this case.
Thanks though for helping him flesh out any potential weaknesses in his case which I hope he brings with success.
And yes, I hope all Hackettstowners turn out for this next meeting. This sounds like a wedged-in overpopulated development squeezing in more square footage for living than the property should allow. It is what it is but you should not give an inch more.
darwin, have all of the conditions that deal with the rest of the property been met for the CO to be obtained. I know that during the planning board meetings there were many discussions on what would be tied to the CO of the CVS property.
I believe, and just checked the meeting minutes of 10/22/13 that the only requirements to receive CO was:
"Sterbenz further recommended the remaining buildings be removed, and the balance of the site re-graded and made turf."
which has been done.
what's funny is at the end of that meeting: "Rice indicated Jade Hackettstown is approximately 45-60 days from filing an application for the balance of the Bergen Tool property. "
Well we all know it took over 2 years to get a formal application LOL
The new CVS looks very nice! Decent amount of setback from the road and more of an upscale building than what we have with the Rite Aid. I know looks aren't everything, hopefully the structure is ok. I plan to make it my go-to pharmacy once it opens. Closer for us, in walking distance.
I am just stating what the additional requirements the board and town engineer added to the agreement to get the CO. those are what it thought michelemorp was alluding to in her post.
This sounds like a wedged-in overpopulated development squeezing in more square footage for living than the property should allow.
Love it...!!!!
of course pampurr, but if nobody from the public shows up to voice their concerns/opinions, the board will never know the public's opinion. They have to go with the silent majority, and since thus far, the majority of people surrounding this property do not show up, what does that say?
I will tell you, if there is not a good public showing at this next meeting, it is guaranteed to be approved as is. The only thing that kept them from being approved last meeting is the chairman carried the meeting JUST so there was time for the public to speak. Speak now or never.
You are so right Darrin.
I would think it would be in the best interest of anyone within 4 blocks or so in any direction to be there. Rest of Hackettstown should be interested too since with these planners you may be next and only "there by the grace of God...." is it missing you this time. These closer folks are going to feel the brunt of this new high density development of people who buy squished townhomes.
"Love it...!!!!"
funny pam we haven't seen you at a meeting in what 2 years now?
I hope you "love it" when its in your backyard and you never voiced your concern to the board.
Man, I get one compliment and you gotta dump on her. Shoot, probably never get another one now :>)
Let's not waste time pointing fingers, we need to group together as a town and be at the next meeting, that is what is important.
You are correct SD, a project this dense is going to put a major burden on Hackettstown, as well as Main Street which already has traffic flow issues. The plans IMHO are incredibly unsafe....one way streets, shared parking with CVS's parking lot where people have to walk across streets to get to commercial. It's just a all around bad plan.
The retail only has a select few on the street parking spots rest of the parking goes into CVS's lot and walk it.
Same for the town homes, 1 garage spot, 1 driveway spot, slim to no on the street parking, with only 15 spare parking spaces for 66 town homes. Hope nobody has more then two cars.
There is also only one main ingress/egress. There is a smaller one that goes in between the retail, under the apartments, but it is not large enough for emergency response vehicles. So if something happens at the intersection of First and Stiger, or Stiger and Bergen that blocks the intersection, there is no way for first responders to get into the site.
What an effed up plan..Darwin is wrong, because I handed you documentation Darrin that evening before speaking to Keith with my husband...what is the point of lying to people about my attendance at these meetings???
Not happy how the parking plans are. Lets hope the planning board makes them fix it. Its not going to work.
pampurr relax, So he was wrong you went to 1 meeting then in 2 years. No reason to start calling people names.
I agree christine. The parking plan is a all around disaster.
I did question the parking during public comment, but the answer i got was that with the addition of the shared parking with CVS, they meet the towns parking requierment.
That sharred parking imo is going to be quite troublesome.
The developers main goal is to fit their max townhomes as per the ordinance it seems. Everything else (IMO), safety, sellability, parking, seems to have went out the window.
They are including using East Stiger Street as a retention pond spill way, meaning if the retention pond over flows or backs up, it will flood east stiger street. I am very against this, especially after CVS spent all the time and money correcting the major issues we had on this street, now we are just going to add more?
The developer also has already proposed to move one of their 3 auxiliary parking lots into the open space. They refused to rearrange any of their homes to make room for this lot elsewhere. The lot was originally shown 10 feet from a existing home, with the parking spaces pulling in facing this home. This is to be updated on the plans for the next meeting. IMO this should not be allowed
I did opra request the last planning board meeting, and have a copy of it on cd. When transferred from liberty recorder (120mb) to windows media player, the file size is 25mb. If anyone is interested in me sending this to them, pm me with your email.
Well I can tell you I don't know many people who would buy a townhouse with that kind of parking. It doesn't make sense. They should take a look at Valleyview Woods townhouses and their parking or Panther Valley. Parking is centralized and close with plenty of visitor parking. Rices plan does not make sense.
Some people on this thread really need to get a life...Taking count of how many meetings Steve and I go too!! Really??? Now Christine jumps on the "hot dog wagon" too?
Darrin..all of the planning boards promises in the beginning of this fiasco of keeping the ball field open..is just a bunch of Bullshit...
The time and the place to vent any concerns, opinions, or questions is at the planning board meeting.
If people cannot make it to the planning board meeting, you also have the option to submit a written statement to the planning board which can be emailed to planning@hackettstown.net and will be distributed to the board members prior to the meeting by the board secretary.
I am still trying to get the CVS lights fixed going on for 3 weeks now. The lights are not to plan in brightness nor do they shut off as their lighting plan states (Drawing LT-1). The town engineer and mayor has been made aware of the situation on more than one occasion, and the town engineer told me he had a discussion with them last Friday about the lights, still no change.
I don't understand the sidewalk out front at the intersection. Am I missing something? It appears that if I walked to CVS and crossed the street at Rt 46 and E. Stiger I would have to walk all the way down to one of the driveways to enter. Or I could climb over the brick wall and step on the flowers. Did I miss the gap in the brick wall for pedestrians? I only noticed this while driving by in my car. Thanks
It is very weird both from an access standpoint and as a obvious place to hang out like when your just hanging or looking for work..... I guess they're not expecting much walk in traffic from across the street or to the West on 46.
Would have suggested maybe some nice low wrought iron on top of the wall to stop folks from sitting on the wall. Looks like a bench now. Younger folks are just going to use it as the front steps to CVS. Might as well put steps in.
The town engineer did reply to me and stated that untill their lighting is corrected their C.O. will be held up, along with other punchlist items that need to be corrected prior to the issuance of a C.O. This has been going on for 3 weeks now, I asked why the town does not make them shut off the lights until the timers and the lighting brightness is resolved, but did not get an answer on that aspect.
We will see if the 8/14/2016 opening day will happen, as they have re-paving and curb work to do as well, if the town holds them to this for the C.O as they say they will. I am interested in seeing if they try to get away with the curb repairs they did in CVS's parking lot on the town side. They had two large cracks in the brand new curb, one of which they filled with caulk, and the other they stuffed the felt pad into so it looked like an expansion joint. The work on this site never ceases to amaze me.
I did notice yesterday that they ripped out more of the brand new sidewalk.......
Darrin,
Were you trespassing onto the CVS site to look at the curbs? It sure sounds like it.
"on the town side" makes it sound like the side facing away from the CVS, so that would probably be visible from town property... but who really cares?
Are you seriously more concerned with where he was standing when he noticed the shoddy repairs to a bad concrete pour rather than the shoddy repair work itself? I thought it was a bit of a reach that the developer (or whatever interested party) would have shills on here pitching their viewpoint and discrediting valid concerns... Now I'm not so sure...
Casual observer, you can very easily see the area from the public sidewalk they installed on East Stiger Street.....Check for you on the assumption collum though!
I am with you Brendan, been all along!
Per the coupons I just received in the mail today it appears that the Grand Opening is on Saturday, 8/20 and runs thru Sat 8/27.
I know the Store Manager of this CVS and he is a great guy! My wife and I are looking forward to seeing a local bring this big box store a small town vibe. Good luck on the Grand opening we are looking forward to be your regulars! We are so tired of hearing the negative banter about this store.
MOVE ON
Got the Grand Opening Coupons/Flier today too (8/10). Shows 8/20 (Sat) as being the Grand Opening.
smitt,
The negative "banter" about the store has been slim to none other then people having the concern about the real possibility of putting existing small town stores out of business.
The negative "banter" that you seem to have confused wouldn't exist had the construction team followed the developers agreement. The majority of "banter" has been plans not being followed, or set forth rules being continually broken over and over again. This still continues with the lights.....they do not match the agreed plan in effect on the surrounding residents nor timing when they are suppose to be off......maybe you should pass that on to the manager you know and get it fixed so that we could "move on"
And why should Darren Move? He was there first and is only looking out for his neighborhood. Hopefully the management of CVS will be easier to work with than it was with the developer.
LOL, yeah, put my house up for sale because developers cannot follow simple rules......good one!
Better to sell now while your house still has value..the next phase is going to bring heavy over crowding and much more construction damage
I gather from a review of recent posts,compared to those of a year or more ago that LITTLE has changed about this entire project !! The developer does as he damned well pleases and gets away with it. A BAD DEAL for H-TOWN from day one.
Geedo In what market does brand new construction of retail and homes bring property value down . Especially in this case where it replaced a run down , mess of an old factory. I am all for making developers honor contacts and keep things on the up and up but in the end this was a huge improvement. Anyone owning property in the area should be more then happy for what it can do to the values around.
Darrin... Life doesn't always go according to plan. People don't always follow the rules, and life must go on. I promise you will be a happier person if you realize your complaining has done nothing but raise your blood pressure. Accept what it is and that nothing you have said or will say makes the difference. Life is short and could be worse. I would look into moving as suggested above. At the end of the day you can keep it up and continue your frustration.... OR you could accept it and fuss about something else you want to spend the rest of your years bitching about.
Smitt, The negative things have been about the developers doing what they want and not following the plans and rules, more than it has been about CVS. On that note, CVS could have been opened a lot sooner if the developer did what they agreed to and not just what they wanted.
As far as a big box store bringing a small town feel... Now that seems to be an oxymoron and I doubt that will happen but we'll wait and see. Hopefully, a small town business like Skylands Pharmacy can survive a big box store across the street. Good luck.
Darrin, you should sell your property to a competitive pharmacy. They love those corner lots across from other pharmacies, so I hear. LOL
News confirmed that Skylands last day is Saturday....way to go Hackettstown!!!!!
One empty space filled, and yet another great family run small business run out of town......
smitt - Not making a difference is not fair to Darrin, or THEMORP either. You may not completely squash the construction altogether as a couple her would like, but the whole water drainage issue would have been glossed over the town engineer would have been far less informed and prepared to oversee the construction. Maybe there has been some wasted energy at times, but who are we to judge, it's their business.
If you look closer Geedoo, there's a big difference between doing what they want and trying but getting caught, as well as what they propose and what they're approved to do. The latest things in the planning stages you reacted to aren't yet approved which is why the call to come out to the meetings. Their miscues on site have only cost them money when they have to redo them. Your blanket statement is too broad.
Spot on GC....there have been a TON of changes to this project because of public input, to say it was time wasted is a utter lie.
How's is that Hackettstown's vault Darrin? CVS hasn't even opened up yet so how could they have stolen business away from Skylands yet? Same with Bach, you can't blame CVS for them closing up shop.
Quitting while they were ahead instead of riding out a painful slow death is the approach they took.
CVS is most certainly to blame, if you don't believe me, talk to the owner of skylands yourself.
Then that's their issue, if you are in business you need to expect competition. Again they have no clue how much business they would have lost to CVS. community banks survive, local auto repairmen survive.
Slyland Pharmacy is closing?? Well that makes me sad. No other small town pharmacies in Hackettstown. I have been a loyal customer since they opened. Their pharmacy staff far exceeds CVS staff in which I have had nothing but problems with. I like their gifts and cards and the owners are great. I really hope they rethink that decision. I do use CVS in Mansfield as their sale items and CVS card added with coupons make some grocery items cheaper then Shoprite.
Please Skylands don't close.
Darwin-No question that CVS opening is a direct effect of Skylands closing up.
Do the owners close Saturday and walk away with something or do they waiting 2 years and walk away with nothing?
I'm sure we'll approve of putting another pharmacy on Darrin's property when he sells his house within the next 2 years, like I suggested earlier.
As I said at the planning board a couple of years ago. Putting in a corporate pharmacy across the street from mom and pop pharmacy, will put the mom and pop pharmacy out of business. I was told that the mom and pop pharmacy was ok with it(which was not true). And now all I can say is I told you so.
Corporate Giant stomps Mom and Pop Rx = Town Home Feel
The whole thing really is an embarrassment quite honestly.
I'm also saddened to learn they are closing. I don't have Rx insurance and Skylands always gave me a discount b/c they knew how expensive drugs are. I have gotten the wrong medicine from the CVS in Mansfield and the wrong dose from Rite-Aid, something that never happened at Skylands. I want to cry. Guess I'll have to go to Panther Valley Pharmacy.
Bachs went bankrupt. Bachs was partnered with Skylands. CVS bought out Skylands.
It happens when insurance runs you out.
Rite Aid is awful and we needed an upgrade.
Maggie S CVS is no better. I had problems with them before Skylands opened up and I left. Wrong meds, lost scripts etc. I won't be using them.
I am not at Liberty to say what the owner told me. He wants to inform his customers.
Well it was discussed at the town council meeting tonight so it is public knowledge.
Skylands sold their client list to CVS
No need to worry about lost scripts and wrong prescriptions as Smitt's friend will be running the new CVS.
"Skylands sold their client list to CVS"
Might as well make a buck off the people who just shut down your bread and butter.....smart business move IMO
I "did the right thing" and used my local mom and pop shop drug store. One day, I went to fill a prescription and they had closed down. No advance notice to their loyal customers, nothing. Just a sign on the door saying that your records were transferred to their sister drug store 5 miles away. They also didn't have a CVS across the street from them so they can't blame that for their problems. Now, I use the pharmacy at the grocery store. Much more convenient than making a separate trip to a stand alone drug store, be it M&P or big-box, IMO.
"Might as well make a buck off the people who just shut down your bread and butter.....smart business move IMO"
that list was their bread and butter. And they could have kept most of the clients on that list if they tried. Most were going to Skylands because they like the customer service and expertise along with the small town feel of the store. Not because they were the closest pharmacy.
There are so many options to go within a 5mile radius of Skylands, so the fact that people were still going there over all the other options shows they could have survived CVS. But I guess they got an offer they couldn't refuse. Best of luck to them.
Yeah dont shop at CVS, they employee all those robots not local residents and that was all fake money they spent on the site. They went and ruined a perfectly good waste land of a site.
Last time I went into that Skylands looking for a knee-brace, it felt like it was going out of business.... Pharmacy might have been grand, but store was not so much. Think they just went out of business and CVS was an opportunity, perhaps a threat but if so ------ then location, location, location.... Wasn't that much there to move...
I use CVS and yes, have had some issues with initial scripts, no issues on refills. But pharmacists very nice and not always their issue. And difficulties seem to abound on initial scripts no matter who I use. The benefit I get is national exposure and they have really helped when I am on the road. Have forgotten meds on a 4-hour drive and had them waiting for me when I arrived.
Plus drive-though will be great. Honk if you love Darrin as you leave !!!!
CVS received their CO yesterday and are on schedule to have their Grand Open on 8/14.
I don't care the reason why they are closing. It is hard when you are a small business and make that decision. We knew it was going to be hard to compete with CVS but when you work your butt off and all you make is close to nothing it's just time to say goodbye.
I wish them all good luck. Will miss the whole gang over there.
darwin, I highly recommend you talk to the owner and get the real story....there is more to the "could have survived" then you are making it seem. Time to do some fact searching my friend, not just assuming.
Secondly, CVS is having multiple dileveries by tractor trailer.....anyone else remeber CVS saying at the planning board meetings they only use box trucks and tractor trailers would not be used?
Also, I spoke to the store manager, he came over to introduce himeself... very nice guy, hopefully we can work the lighting issue to be as stated in the plans, but he did say 8-14 will be a soft opening, 8-20 is the grand opening.
My qualms are not with CVS, they are with the people who built it....good thing the town has a performance bond on them!
Secondly, CVS is having multiple dileveries by tractor trailer.....anyone else remeber CVS saying at the planning board meetings they only use box trucks and tractor trailers would not be used?
that was for normal everyday deliveries. I'm sure they need a large trailer to fill the store in the beginning. it's like you find shit to bitch about.
Darwin, It was specifically asked if the tractor trailers would EVER be used and we were told NO... i guess it is ok then that they forgot that they had to fill the store... It is one thing after another with this whole project. If it is ok for them then why should ANY resident/ developer follow ANY rule that is part of their new garage build, new house build etc and they can have the tractor trailer deliver on a town street that does not allow it you are setting precedents here whether you realize it or not..
"it's like you find shit to bitch about."
No...it's like I know the rules very well, because living as close as I do, they are things I as well as other residents were concerned about and were discussed at planning board meetings which I was very involved in through this project.... I have no problem calling out when they break them.
If you lived next to it, you would want the rules that were made so that the residents were not impacted followed as well.
I went to the meetings, voiced my concerns, and my concerns were to be handled by the rules set forth, they break the rules and I am "bitching". Guess cops constantly "bitch" at people too?
Saying someone is "bitching" is a good way to recognize the problem and admit that you don't care that they are breaking rules.
What is the point of the planning board and town engineer setting rules, and making agreements with applicants if when the public notices these rules are being broken they are just claimed as "bitching"???? Why make rules then?
As I have stated 100 times, I want the project done properly, to the plans and agreements we were promised. If you cannot keep to those plans or promises, don;t make them in the first place.
The developer was not to use trucks on east Stiger without the road being closed....do you know how many times they used trucks....how many times the town engineer told them they can't be doing that? And they kept doing it.....
Nip it in the bud early before it gets to be a problem like everything else on this project.
So sorry to see Skylands Community Pharmacy closing. It is truly a sad, sad day.
Put out of business by CVS Conglomerate.
I too will drive to panther valley before I will use CVS. Nothing but problems with them years ago; shorted on pills, given wrong strenth of pill and one time even gave me some strangers prescription instead of mine! Best wishes to the entire staff at Skylands!
Msprim "Secondly, CVS is having multiple dileveries by tractor trailer.....anyone else remeber CVS saying at the planning board meetings they only use box trucks and tractor trailers would not be used?"
From the outside it appears that this three story building will need a number of tractor trailer deliveries to fill it. Maybe that's why they need the extra week before the Grand Opening.
TU I believe that Skylands'customers would have stayed so I do not know why they sold out.
I totally agree with Msprim. I had the exact same issues with CVS. I was given someone elses Rx and they must have gotten mine. The bottle was mine and the printing was correct, but the medicine was wrong. Another time my Rx said 5 mgs, and they gave me 20 mgs. Big difference. Also that big building just doesn't look like it belongs where it is. It's totally out of place at that end of town too.
I was very very happy with Skylands..and the staff. Sorry to see them go. Now my personal medical information is sold out to a company my family does not intend to do business with..Good job again Hackettstown running the small business man out.. Bravo!
Tractor trailer deliveries have been occurring for many weeks now, if anyone has passed that store they would know they already had the majority of their items weeks ahead of time and that people have been stocking the shelves way ahead of time. There is major safety issues with a tractor trailer trying to enter/exit from East Stiger Street. They block the whole road and almost cannot make the turn.....this is why it was said that NO deliveries would occur by tractor trailer.
CVS is also STILL breaking their agreed lighting plans.....the town engineer is suppose to meet with me next week, but I do not understand why it is so difficult to get what lights are allowed to be left on and what lights have to be shut off 1/2 a hour after closing right. The brightness, yes, could be a more challenging problem, but untill then, the lights need to at least match the plans with timers.
FYI the CVS target buy out was end of 2015 and does not add new pharmacies; there were pharmacies in the Target's already.
Darrin,
I did as you suggested, and took a look at the Lighting plan (LT-1). The Energy Management Schedule shown on the Lighting plan (LT-1), states that the outside lights should turn off either at store closing, OR when outside light levels reach greater than 45 foot candles.
Casual, you are correct, but it's the wall pack lights that are to remain on, not all outdoor lights. The wall pack lights are designated by WP on the plan.
All other lights are to be off 1/2 a hour after store closing. So that means signage, interior, etc is to be off. I have not seen that happen once yet other when they did not have power.
Scheduling is really the least of my concerns, if you saw the plan then you also saw that the lights were not to affect onto the residential properties, which is far from reality. I do understand that this brightness confusion could take a little time to figure out, so all I am asking is for in the meantime, at least match the scheduling plan so I do not have to deal with the brightness issue all night. Is that too much to ask for?
The seating area on the corner is very nice! No need to sit on the wall!
Also changing the parking lot a bit was a good move. Much better then the prior plan but let's see the new plan first.
I think it looks ALOT better the what was going there.
Haven't seen the seating but how they can expect folks walking down the street from the West to go another block versus jumping the wall and garden ignores basic human nature. First short cutters will beat down a path and then CVS will put in a path. Don't forget the wheel chair access :>)
The eyesore is gone and the store looks great. How about being positive instead of complaining all the time. It's here and the store is opening and it's a huge benefit to many people instead of driving over to the other end of town. Good to see something positive going on the Main Street.
What ever happened to the memorial to the American Sawmill that was suppose to go up in the public plaza utilizing the bricks from the old buildings?
This was actually asked by a board member at the last board meeting, but nobody seemed to have an answer.
stranger, seriously a full block? Its not even a half a block! BUT I guess we will see what will happen with everyones speculation.
It's definitely 3/4 of a block if not more if going toward bergen, a full block if coming to stiger, but hey, that was CVS's choice. I agree with SD that people will be jumping the shorter section of the wall if they are already parked at quick check and walking across, or really any foot traffic for that matter unless already coming from first or bergen.
Technically they would have to walk more than a block since they would have to walk 3/4 of a block to the road entrance, and another 3/4 of a block back to get the the front door.
Hey, in NYC. Cross street to cross street is a block. And we'te close here. Ok. Short block :-)
Point is anyone with a bit of flexibility will be taking the shortest route. Watch the path evolve.
The wall hinders disabled traffic. If I am in a wheelchair ( or using a walker, etc.) and cross the street I now have to travel down the sidewalk 1/2 or 3/4 of a block, enter the driveway and go thru the parking lot ( dodging cars?) to the front door. I am surprised this limited entryway passed Federal and State Law in regards to Handicapped Access. And yes, the able-bodied will take the shortcut over the wall.
JBJSKJ
how is this any different than if you were going from CVS side to Quick Chek? You would cross at the intersection and then have to wheel either up Main St to the parking lot entrance or down Stiger to the parking lot entrance. There is no short cut thru the bushes at the corner to go diagonally thru the parking lot.
plus if they made steps at the corner, switch would have been nice, then they would have also had to put in a ramp. Not sure there is room for both stairs and a ramp so easier to just build a wall and make everyone go around.
Or just a ramp but yes. Haven't checked the Quikcheck side but sounds dumb too.
its the exact same layout of except instead of a brick wall there is a wall of bushes. Still need to go up and around to parking lot entrances from corner to get to stores. Or cut thru bushes by foot. But strollers, wheelchairs ect, have to go around.
No Phase 2 plans to bee seen at this month's meeting......wonder what happened? The developer was so pushy for approval last month, now they ask to carry the meeting?
HACKETTSTOWN PLANNING BOARD
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE THAT the Chairman of the Hackettstown
Planning Board, after consulting with the Board Attorney and the Town
Engineer, has cancelled the regular meeting scheduled for Tuesday,
August 23, 2016 at 7:30 PM.
Case #16-01, Jade Hackettstown Associates, LLC
Block 21, Lot 18
At the request of the applicant, the above application is being requested to be carried to the next regular meeting of the Hackettstown Planning Board scheduled for Tuesday, September 27, 2016 without further notice.
The next regular meeting is scheduled to be held Tuesday, September 27 2016 at the Municipal Building, 215 Stiger Street, Hackettstown, New Jersey, and will be held at 7:30 PM.
I wasn't entirely sure what you guys were talking about and getting all riled up about with the wall and walking a block to get in and whatnot. I finally got to take a decent look at the layout the other day and I'm astonished that there's no access on the corner there! That's nuts! I'm a big believer in personal responsibility, and if you do something dumb you're on your own, but if (when?) somebody get's hit crossing 46 opposite the driveway as opposed to in the crosswalk, I'll bet they have a decent case against whoever laid this out... Especially if there were plans for an entrance on the corner (or better yet, a crosswalk across 46 at the driveway).
I couldn't understand what you guys were talking about because it was beyond me to think that there wasn't steps/ramp buried in that corner with all the benches and whatnot! I hate to be one of those people complaining about the little things, but that's a little thing that's probably going to get somebody hurt.
"but if (when?) somebody get's hit crossing 46 opposite the driveway as opposed to in the crosswalk, I'll bet they have a decent case against whoever laid this out..."
Wouldn't that be jaywalking? which is technically illegal. And again I will say we have had the exact same layout on the opposite side of Main St with the Quick Chek for how many years now? I don't recall anyone complaining that they have to cross Main St and then walk around to the parking lot entrance for that strip mall?
Could someone please post a picture of this area? Not understanding the wall, benches, etc. Moved away a few years ago and can't imagine what it looks like without Bergen Tool there. Thanks.
"And again I will say we have had the exact same layout on the opposite side of Main St with the Quick Chek for how many years now? I don't recall anyone complaining that they have to cross Main St and then walk around to the parking lot entrance for that strip mall?"
That's because everyone crosses 5 feet from the bushes in the corner Darwin, take a look at it, bet there is even a path worn in.
Darrin,
JBJSKJ's complaint was regarding the handicap and how the plan shouldn't have passed the " Federal and State Law in regards to Handicapped Access". which I was pointing out the handicap have to do the same thing across the street
How does the Architect, The General Building inspector miss that? Are those outside lights by timers or photo cells?
As one who grew up in the neighborhood of this new store I can only say that the ice sore is finally gone and a really nice building is in it's place now. I really love that the town has extended the sidewalks to match the rest at both ends of town.
For those of us that can remember the old Shop-Rite on the corner where the one parking lot was across the street from the store with no light at the intersection, this intersection sure looks good now. I know someone won't agree with me and say that an accident at that intersection caused the light to finally go in. Unfortunately sometimes it takes something like that to change things.
I wish the owners well with the store and am sorry to hear that Skylands isn't staying. I personally will continue to use the store in Mansfield as I can shop at the grocery store while waiting for my meds.
Magpie Darwin-
"I don't recall anyone complaining that they have to cross Main St and then walk around to the parking lot entrance for that strip mall?"
Where were they crossing from? The derelict bergen tool site? There would have been ample crosswalks they would have to walk past. I'm talking about somebody going from the quick check to the CVS... As it looks to me you would have to walk out the quick check driveway, west on 46 to the light, cross, then walk east to the cvs driveway, enter the property and then walk west again to the entrance of cvs... As opposed to walking directly across the street from driveway to driveway. I understand this would be jay walking, but people have had far better results suing for far dumber things. It could be easily prevented by having installed a crosswalk at the driveways, or having steps/a ramp on the corner at CVS.
Most people with a disability will be in a car and not walking from store to store. At least I do. Many times I would be at Skylands Pharmacy and get back in my car and go to Quick Check. No way was I going to walk to the light cross over and back again. I agree with Darwin Quick Check is the exact same thing. So is Rite Aid.
And yet again my point is anyone going the opposite direction from cvs to quick Chek will have to do the same thing in reverse. The 2 intersections
Mirror each other.
So why is one corner poor planning and the the other corner fine for the past x amount of years?
"So why is one corner poor planning and the the other corner fine for the past x amount of years?"
Pretty obvious, because it was always just one, and the possibility of walking from one to the other was never there
I thing Brendan's point holds true, it is definitely something to look for in future plans.
I see people jay walking from Quick Check to the skylands area all the time.
FYI, here is a pic, that center area is just asking for a walkway into the entrance
There is no need for steps or a ramp. The day workers will be blocking the area sitting on the wall soon enough.
Noticed tonight that it looks like they will be putting in bike racks. They match others in town. It looks nice considering it is another big box store. Could be just a ugly parking lot ala Rite Aid, Salvation army, etc. I do hope that the up keep is kept up.
Maybe a new work space for Shaddog ;)
Finally finally finally, the lights got shut off at night and man what a difference!
Thank you to the town engineer and Mayor for getting this aspect taken care of finally!
My gosh so much complaining look for the good the store is open huge benefit for everyone on this end of town. All the comments about access give it a break and move on. The corner looks great with the benches and the walls.
Passed by there this morning around 5am....Someone sleeping on the brand new bench.....
CraftBeerBob- I wonder, was it one of Skylands former employees sleeping on the bench?
What did you expect? Didn't take them long to be sleeping on the benches.Hard metal no less. Yikes
towniejim, people are welcome to their opinions be it good or bad
Chris......OUCH! TOO SOON!!!!
"What did you expect? Didn't take them long to be sleeping on the benches"
who is the "them" in that sentence?
provoke? I trying to figure out who she is talking about, CBB said he saw 1 person supposedly sleeping on the bench and now it has turned into "them"? 1 person does not make up a "them"
Correct it was just one person. I did not stop to interview him to find out who he was. It was just an observation.
And that was my point. Let not turn this into multiple people sleeping on benches multiple times. 1 person, 1 time
Is this what it has come down to? Arguing about the use of the word them?
With phase 2 plans seemingly postponed or canceled, I am more interested in why that occurred when they were so close to being approved last meeting. I posted this, but people want to argue about "them" instead of discussing the important things.
Thanks for letting us know what we are ant aren't allow to discuss
Just making sure ppl aren't blowing a time 1 event out of proportion
So you want us to speculate what's happening rather then just waiting until the next meeting to find out the facts first hand? Didn't you just scold us in the Skylands thread for speculating about why they closed? It's not ok to do that but it is ok to speculate why developer canceled their meeting ? I'm now confused
Darwin, there has been 10 posts about the use of them....i mean if it really floats your boat, go ahead and argue.
For the record I did not once say stop discussing "them" all I said is right above your post, don;t try to make it into more than it is.
I have heard quite a few rumors floating around and was asking if anyone had info as I am sure someone out there does....am I allowed to do that?
You scold me for speculation and you scold me for asking for facts....who is scolding who here?
Sure you could wait until the september meeting, but wouldn't you want to know why the boards and public's time was spent on plans that may be changed. Or why the developers attorney was so pushy to get approval last month but then canceled this month? Getting some details early allows one to prepare for what's to come.
Are they changing plans?
Could they simply not make it?
Did they find something that would not work?
It could be a slew of things, I was just asking and said I am more interested in knowing why then arguing about the usage of the word "them"
...how you turned that into "Thanks for letting us know what we are ant aren't allow to discuss " is beyond me.
I have heard quite a few rumors floating around and was asking if anyone had info as I am sure someone out there does....am I allowed to do that?
Let's see the people that have info on why the meeting was cancelled are the following: Developer, Developer's attorney, Planning Board members, Town Engineer. So unless one of those groups come on here to give facts, the only thing you will get is more rumors.
You're setting yourself up for a flop darwin.....you and I know that
Secondly there are plenty of people on this forum who speak with the list of people you just gave on a regular basis.
:-O
The town engineer is coming to my house tonight to discuss punchlist items and lighting issues. I will see what info he can provide.
Actually Darwin it was Chris Morpeth that said, " I wonder, was it one of Skylands former employees sleeping on the bench?"
Then pampur stated, "What did you expect? Didn't take them long to be sleeping on the benches. Hard metal no less. Yikes"
CBB just saw someone "sleeping" on the bench. He could have been just laying there resting or whatever. I would bet you they were not there very long. Our officers would have checked on them if they saw it. Anyway..........
I am very glad that Lynda is working there. I may try them just because of her. As I said many times I do buy grocery items there for their sales etc. I realize she wont be there all the time but one problem with my prescriptions I will be out of there.
Just a suggestion here, Can we start a new thread? This takes forever to load. You started the thread Darrin so go for it.
Christine, maybe we let this one die out on the CVS topic and start a new one for the Phase 2 plans?
Right now the two topics are getting mixed, and I originally had two different threads, but the moderators closed one down and said to use one....this was the mix I was trying to avoid because now people want to talk about the new CVS but others want to talk about the new plans and info on phase 2 is getting buried.
Darrin - You're naive if you think the previous discussion was about grammar. It's all about people spreading FUD and then saying everyone else is the liar.
seenit - I was wonder about the same thing with shaddog because to me it's all about the people and not the name on the store. I'm one of the regulars at the old CVS because of several really good people who have gotten me my flu shot paid by insurance when they usually don't, ordered specialty prescriptions quickly, and got supplies pre-ordered so there was no need to wait. I've never had any screw ups and never a hiccup with insurance. I'd be very happy to have a couple of them over at the new store. I heard yesterday directly from the (uh) "horse's mouth" that shaddog would be at the new store on Monday. ;-)
Great job CVS and staff. I went in the other day to get my free coke, soap, and snickers. The staff is friendly and seems happy to work. And can you believe he hired locals to staff the store?! Great job Ben.
Hi GC and Shaddog,
I meant some of his beautiful landscaping that we get to enjoy on Main Street each day. I didn't know he (or she) was employed by CVS but that is wonderful that it is our local folks that are working there.
Bessie I agree we need a new thread that focuses solely on Phase 2. Let this one continue as the CVS one.
Darrin,
How did your meeting with the town engineer go last night? Is the engineer going to make the contractor change the brightness of the lights?
Casual,
It was found that the lighting effect at ground level was in minor exceedance and at chest level or window level it is majorly impacted. We were seeing around .16-.24 ft candels hitting the front of my house if my memory serves me right.
I am not fully aware of what the town engineers action will be yet.
"Evening, Paul. Is that a light meter in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" (-;
Well, that didn't take long to attract some crime
On 9/23/16 at approx 2:20PM the Hackettstown Police responded to the area of Rt46 and Stiger St for a report of a shoplifter that left the CVS Pharmacy on foot. As the suspect was running through the parking lot, one bag broke and the suspect left other bags along a fence. The suspect then handed a bag to individuals in a vehicle with New York plates that was parked in the area of East Prospect St and First St. The vehicle then took off and the suspect ran towards Main St. An officer located the vehicle matching the description and initiated a traffic stop on West stiger St. While the officer was talking to the driver, the officer detected the odor of burnt marijuana coming from inside the vehicle. Another officer was advised by employees of a local business that a male ran into their store. The officer then located the suspect inside the bathroom. Through an investigation it was determined that 23yro Larry Brand of Brooklyn, NY concealed $3,326.36 worth of merchandise in shopping bags and left the store. The driver of the vehicle was identified as 30yro Matthew Richardson of Staten Island, NY and the passenger in the vehicle was identified as 21yro Daquan Carlisle of Brooklyn, NY. Larry and Daquan also had in their possession a Ziploc bag containing suspected marijuana and all three were in possession of multiple credit cards not belonging to them. Larry was charged with credit card theft (4th degree), receiving stolen property (3rd degree), possession of under 50 grams of marijuana (disorderly persons) and shoplifting (3rd degree). Matthew was charged with credit card theft (4th degree), receiving stolen property (3rd degree), conspiracy to commit shoplifting (3rd degree), possession of CDS in a motor vehicle and failure to stop at a stop sign. Daquan was charged with conspiracy to commit shoplifting (3rd degree), possession of under 50 grams of marijuana (disorderly persons), credit card theft (4th degree) and receiving stolen property (3rd degree). All three were unable to post their $20,000.00 bail with no ten percent option and were then lodged in the Warren County Correctional Facility
JWolfe75 The big question is did he run down the lot and out one of the entrances or did he just jump the wall? :>)
Who in their right mind would think it's a good idea to commit a robbery in downtown Hackettstown? There are exactly ZERO plausible escape routes. I'm surprised they made it as far as West Stiger, lol.
Christine, thats not what i said, nor is it what i meant. Please stop putting words in my mouth.
I <3 Darrin HEY you said it not me! "...attract some crime."
Care to explain then if that's not what you meant? I think its funny you said it since you never had brought it up as a point in the past.
Sooo Quick Check has the same problem in theft. Not as much money though!
http://wrnjradio.com/rnj-news-department/2016/hackettstown-police-looking-for-energiezed-thief-stole-149-worth-of-red-bull/
Pretty sure I read somewhere they got him already! KUDOS HPD!!
Looking at the ACMS online court records database for NJ, it appears Ray... in 2016 alone... has been sued by his traffic engineer, his project engineer and his architect for his Towne Center at Washington project in Washington Borough. His project there has apparently gone completely awry.
Herb On a lighter note CVS is closing 70 stores in 2017...wonder if any around this vicinity will be closing..looks like they didn't make their numbers on the street...hmmmmmm
Pampur
70 out of 9,600 locations is a drop in the bucket..but you are always a ray of sunshine
Thank you Brad for your kind words...lol...CVS didn't beat the street.. Macy's and Sears and K Mart are closing down stores and some other name brand stores are going bankrupt. No need for brick and morter and high overhead. A lot of folks today buy on the internet.
CVS was denied the use of tractor trailers at the PB meeting on a 3-2 vote. Thank you to those who voted NO, essentially for safety and to protect our residential streets.
The town engineer said a TT could safely fit onto the site, then later said there was a small snow bank that caused him to have to back up....and then even later said it takes a skilled driver to get into the site in a tractor trailer. So after much discussion the board decided, with public influence, that until CVS changes something and makes the site more accessible, it's a NO-GO.
So CVS will have to go back to the drawing board, and more then likely re-do their parking lot curbs and loading dock area if they plan on using tractor trailers.
Pampurr don't get all excited because 70 stores is very small amount. You should also keep in mind there could be members of this forum that work at one of those stores or maybe a family does. There is no way they would close down a brand new store.
Mommyof3 Not two days after the store manager and attorney of CVS were told they were not allowed to use tractor trailers, they already had a tractor trailer delivery. Lets see where the town goes with this.
That just shows a complete lack of respect to the town and the residents IMO
We just went by and saw a TT on the side if the building..seems very awkward the parking for those rigs in the lot.
I would not automatically point fingers at the Store Manager. If the highers up haven't changed it, it's likely the store manager has no control.
Interesting Sign posted on CVS's property
I have not had the time to call, but was wondering if anyone knows anything, or has called?
Rufus I understand what it is, my question is why? That site was sold to CVS as "all cleaned up" and "good to go", and this is what the seller told the town and the residents or the area at the meetings.
It is also interesting that now CVS has a different company managing the cleanup, and it is not the same company that originally did the cleanup.
No news is good new, cough, cough.....
Just glad to see more traffic going through CVS though. Very convenient location and layout.
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