Mansfield Twp purchasing Church at Snyder & Mt. Bethel
Interesting. For some reason this escaped my attention. I am glad this beautiful building will be preserved. I can't believe the sale price, though. So low!
This building would make an amazing art gallery for Warren County artists. That would be my suggestion for the site.
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/express-times/index.ssf/2014/06/mansfield_township_purchasing.html
Rebecka 
fitter Love that old church. I always have the kids in car though when we pass by so don't get to really look all that long. Is it a place you can explore the old grave sites?
ladeevee I actually looked into that building and was told by the realtor that there is a lot of mold.
kayaking So glad to learn the building will be cared for. It's such a shame it has been neglected for so long.
Ms Fishy Don't get your hopes to high on the town getting the church. It's not a done deal yet. They are looking into the costs to maintain it. The numbers the paper stated and what the council are telling the people don't add up?
Dadof3http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/express-times/index.ssf/2014/07/warren_county_charitable_trust.html
Here is the article that outlines how much the "grant" request was for-the county can agree to fund up to 75% of restoration. It is a shame that this information has not been presented to township committee and residents of Mansfield, only to the county land preservation committee.
A museum for $33000 in repair costs? What is the other $100,000k for
If the roof is bad there is probably water damage. How about handicapped access and bathrooms required for museums. Will the mayor repoint some of the mortar joints? Are there quotes by professionals or just the mayor. Where is the plan - time line vs cost. There are none that the public has seen. Keep in mind that the grant may get cut from $154000 to something considerably less since the grant pot is being reduced by close to 50%. Also the purchase is contingent on receipt of the grant which may come after this mayor is out of office. A big waste of energy is heating a church, since heat rises to the space that is empty but the mayor says he will do it any way..
The Township bought the Karrsville school about 8-10 years ago and I don't think one citizen has set foot inside since it was purchased. Will this be another Karrsville school situation?
DiaHillRes2 It's a beautiful building and would make a great site for something.
But if I read the article, they are asking for stabilization funding; that does not leave a useable building, just one that isn't eroding.
This one has a long way to go before it becomes something usable.
mistergoogle I'd love to see that graveyard cleaned up of the over grown weeds. I used to walk in there and read some of the headstones when it wasn't so overgrown, they are very interesting!
Given that Mansfield didn't have sufficient police cars a few years back and that, for the taxes you pay, you don't get a whole lot back, I would rather let the building erode into the ground than spend more taxpayer money on that.
If there are those who truly cherish the historical aspects of the building, then let them, as private citizens buy it up.
emaxxman From what I understand, the money to buy and renovate the church will not come out of the general budget appropriations. It can't. The Open Space Fund will be used, as well as, any county funding. Hope that helps.
Suyling I may be way off base here, but doesn't Mansfield have a few more important critical issues to spend their time addressing, than to consider purchasing an historical church? However, since I don't live in Mansfield Township, wisdom probably weighs in favor of my not even commenting on this thread...but what the heck!
Spring Fever I agree with emaxxman to the point that unless the building can be bought and put to good purpose, why spend the tax dollars, no matter what fund they come from. It will never be an "open space," even if those tax dollars are used. That said, if a win-win can be had to provide a profitable use for the township, then it is a good use of tax dollars. The area up there must have a lot of history, today it is mostly a mystery. The basic question: what is a Church doing way up on a mountain in the middle of nowhere?
It is a really cool building with a unique style for the times and would be a tragedy to let cave in.
It’s not like people in today’s surrounding communities were going to hitch up their horses for a Sunday climb up that hill. There must have been a community already up there as well as Port Murray, Karsville, and Townsbury --- all vibrant small towns of the past. Was an apple-whisky refinery in Karsville --- slurp.
Here's what I found, anyone have more?
"The oldest Methodist edifice in Mansfield, this stone church was built in 1844 in a
meeting-house style but reflects eighteenth-century designs rather than styles that
were current when it was built. It was built on the site of an earlier log church. The
land for the church was donated in 1796; and in 1809 the village and congregation
were named Mount Bethel by Bishop Francis Asbury, America’s first Methodist
bishop. The cornerstone of this building was laid in 1844, and the church was built
for about $2,600. In the cemetery are two of the early owners of the land, Dr. Robert
Cummins (1742-1806) and James Egbert (1742-1817)." Historic Sites of Warren County
"Dr. Cummins induced James Egbert to come to Mount Bethel in 1790 from Staten Island. He was a tanner by trade, and built a tannery here and bought a great deal of land. He built the handsome stone church and owned it personally, but finally gave it to the Methodist Episcopal Conference. Hence it was known for many years as Egbert’s Church, and the name Egberts has about supplanted the earlier name of Mount Bethel for the place. James Egbert died in Morristown in 1846.” From History of Warren County, NJ By George Wyckoff Cummins, Ph. D., M. D.
OK, the next I fixed up a zillion typos and might have even changed it slightly, can't tell.
"Located on the dividing ridge about half-way between Rockport and the Hope township line. The first Methodist meetings were held in the house of James Egbert as early as 1800. Bishop Asbury preached there in ???? and named the place Mount Bethel, on account of the high position it occupies in the surrounding country. At this time, and for many years prior, there was a log meeting house was used by the Baptists as a place of worship. Finally, Mr. Egbert bought the church from the Baptists, and the Methodists worshiped there for several years. In 1845, James Egbert built a new stone church and presented it to the congregation, in connection with the cemetery belonging to it. The church was small in membership, and was under the charge of the Philadelphia consequently they had preaching at irregular interval-. The records Of the church have not been kept at that place for several years, and, as the old members have either died or moved away, a complete history with the names of the pastors cannot be given." James P Snell. History of Sussex and Warren counties,
I seriously considered purchasing the church about 5 years ago when it was for sale to convert into a residence. Would make a fabulous home. I am glad the township is trying to purchase it...it desperately needs attention. Five years ago it was in fairly good shape. Looking in the windows about a month ago revealed some serious water damage from the roof leaking. When a building isn't being used it goes downhill quickly. Here's an old picture. I grew up right down the street so this church is one of my earliest memories.
eperot I too would love to see this historic building preserved, however, I'd also like to see a clear plan from the mayor and township committee BEFORE they commit a penny of my tax dollars to this effort. The taxpayers haven't been privy to any of the details of this beyond the acquisition costs. When questioned, both Mayor Tomaszewski and Deputy Mayor Watters gave no insight into the costs to rehabilitate the existing structure and maintain it in the future.
There is a public hearing tomorrow (Wednesday) night at the Mansfield Municipal Building to discuss this ordinance. It looks like it will take place as part of the township committee meeting. I believe the time is 7pm.
I strongly urge any interested Mansfield Township residents to come to the meeting and get answers to any questions you may have before the committee votes.
taxedtodeath Does anyone know where we stand in the process? Did the sale go through?
I saw there was a tarp on the roof the other day - work getting started, or just maybe protecting the interior from existing leaks?
Protecting the interior from leaks...getting it ready for the winter. Waiting to hear from the County on funding.
The town did NOT purchase the church yet But have authorize the instillation of the tarp to water proof the church. And before everyone jumps on with comements, what right does any town have to spend the tax payers money on a building that the town does not own? And may not ever own if the funding doesn't come through? This just goes to show that this mayor and his side kick the deputy mayor do things in town.
@Onlooker - the town did not spend any taxpayer money on the building. The tarp was installed by a contractor as a donation to the church. So, settle down and get your facts straight.
@FoodforThought - Minutes from township meeting don't mention that there was a donation sought - here is what it states from 9/24/2014 meerting - tarp was installed prior to the next committee meeting on October 8th
"Mr. Watters stated that we received quotes to cover the Mount Bethel Church roof and the lowest quote was for 1300 from McGarry Construction.
Mr. Lavery stated that he needs to see if the Township can spend money on property that they do not own.
Mr. Misertino made a motion to approve the tarping of the Mount Bethel Church roof as long as the attorney finds that this is allowed, which was seconded by Mr. Clancy"
I agree with Onlooker - the project was completed with taxpayer dollars - the committee voted yes and the township just had to await the attorney's approval. At this point, shouldn't the town pursue a lien to recoup $$$ in case the deal falls through.
If McGarry Roofing company decided to donate it - well a big THANK YOU! Otherwise, I have a project in need of $1300 - maybe the town will give me money, too!
Again, certain people seem to have nothing better to do than spew rumors and lies. NO, the township did not spend any taxpayers dollars to tarp the church roof. I looked on the townships website for the Oct 22nd minutes but, they are not posted. However, I attended the mtg and the discussion was that the tarp covering was a donation....period. And Mr. Clancy and Mr. Misertino stated that no taxpayers dollars are going towards future reimbursement.
Get to the meetings and get informed.
I hope that puts this to rest.
Wasn't it Mayor Tomaszewski who decided to buy the church? What happens if it's not purchased by the town by the end of the year when his term is expired? Are the other council members going to go through with the purchasing?
FoodForThought when the fact that the town is spending taxpayers on a building they don't own during the mtg, Joe Watters stated it was a donation by the contractor. The funny thing the contractor had no idea that he was donating the work. Also if it was intended to be a donation then why did the mayor and his partner put it out for bid? The mayor and deputy mayor had all intentions of using town money to pay for it. Get the minutes and read them. Also you should OPRA request the bill list to see it appears on there to be paid.
You people are talking peanuts. How would you like to build this church with your taxes.
What country!!!
. http://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/2014/12/12/bridgewater-township-new-jersey-pays-muslims-7-75-million-to-purchase-land-for-new-mosque-construction/
Old Gent Old Gent, that's a really bizarre interpretation of a settlement that is bad enough on it's own:
http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/local/somerset-county/2014/12/02/bridgewater-mosque-reach-settlement-million-land-swap/19775661/
No "DOJ" involved. Byline says "CNN", look closer and it "Christian News Network": obviously, from the content of the article, a bigoted, theocratic internet rag. May be not really theocratic: just another click bait site.
I will give that. They didn't explain very well that 5 Mil is covered by the Insurance Company. I bet their rates go up tho.
Just wondering if anyone on HL has any updates on this Church? It's such a beautiful structure, I would just love to see it being preserved and used for something.
The church is now owned by the twp. We will have to wait to see what the next step is.
Here's a link to the article that was in the Warren Reporter last week:
http://blog.lehighvalleylive.com/community-calendar/2015/07/preserving_mansfield_townships.html#incart_related_stories
They're looking for volunteers. The cemetery work would probably be a good Scouting project. I was just at a project in Metuchen a week ago to learn how to restore graveyards and there are some local folks who have knowledge in this area. I'll have to contact them, since I'm interested in helping with the cemetery restoration.
Phil D. There's some good welders in town, I wonder if you could elicit some fence help in return for a fence plaque with their name. It's a last remaining iron fence.
strangerdanger I checked out the property today after work and it was obvious that someone was mowing and clearing some of the brush from the edges. There are a couple of amazing early stones there dating back to 1803 & 1806. The grass needs clearing and more mowing to be able to find stones that have fallen and been covered over and more brush needs to be both cut down and dug up to clear the entire area of the cemetery.
The outside of the cemetery itself is bordered with a wonderful iron fencing that has the coolest corners I've seen in a while! One bad point is that some of the stone fence between the church itself & the cemetery has collapsed into the cemetery and needs rebuilt as well. A number of the gravestones are laying on their sides and there are a number of "leaners", either side to side or front to back. I did take pictures, but I have to find my adapter to download them to the computer, then I'll post some.
The back of the church itself has a collapsed roof on the add-on building.
By the way, the bugs were HORRIBLE! They were all over the front of the camera as well, making it hard to take pictures at times.
I have no talent but am still going to volunteer. I am sure they can find something for me to do.
happycamper Interesting; 1800 graves would pre-date the stone church by about 45 years to the original log church.
Since the stones are of a different material from the others, they are a bit out of place. It may have started as a family graveyard on the original landowner's farm that was later donated to the church, with that thought in mind. Other stones and a church would make it more likely that the family plot would be later cared for along with the other stones. I'll try to download the pics to the computer tonight.
I checked my cam and the oldest states "In memery of Mary Rose, who Departed This Life in November of 1803, in the 48th year of her age." Memory is misspelled on the stone and the caps are as I wrote them. The "s" in Rose is also the stylized "f" that you see in older times as well.
I'm not sure if the town realizes it, but there is approximately 100 feet of the original fence in good condition in the woods extending back from the rear of the cemetery. This could be pulled out and moved to the front where some newer ugly aluminum fence was put up after a car accident took some out years ago.
The Egbert grave near the front ( has a hand with index finger pointing upward to the heavens) was the man who gave the Money for the church to be built. He lived across the street in a house long gone and replaced by the current home at the corner of Parke/Mt. bethel. At first people actually called it "Egbert's Church".
I have photocopies of books celebrating the important anniversary dates of the Church and lots of information. I was a total geek for the history of the building and sought to purchase it myself to make into my home but the sellers were totally unresponsive. My information comes from Dot Liechtenstein, who used to run a small store out of her house on the corner of Jane'sChapel and Mt. bethel. As far as l know, she became the last person to be burried in the cemetery back in the early 2000's. A great person.
Eperot
Thanks for the info, that's pretty cool! I downloaded he pics to my one computer last night, but didn't get a chance to post any yet, but I did verify the death dates as 1803 and 1805. The slant of the stones has actually protected them from the weather and there's marvelous detail in the inscriptions which quote Scripture. They were likely made by one of the more talented cutters of the day, but I didn't look on the back for the carver's name. I have to do that next time I'm there, just in case their work was signed!
Yeah, I know those two graves, John and Mary Rofe (Rose), beautiful markers in a cool reddish stone. if you look carefully over near the stone wall there is a head and footstone that are just actual stones with the initials "R.P." crudely carved in. A unique reminder that not everyone had the money for a "real" headstone. I hope nobody moves them by mistake thinking they are just fieldstones!
Also, there is a smaller second cemetery up in the woods on the opposite side of the church. There was some story behind it, why it was separate from the Methodist Episcopal cemetery and not because it was a family plot, because it isn't. Two of the stones up there are of two young sisters who died within days of each other very young. IIRC they died in 1918 so it may have been from the flu outbreak that year. An unimaginable tragedy for the parents, I'm sure.
Here's Mary Rose's stone. Look at the top of it, there's an "accidental" Mitsubishi symbol on it:
Driving by today, I was admiring how neat and clean the property looks. I've never seen it so well tended. Not sure if it is volunteers or the town who is responsible, but kudos to whomever has been cutting the grass, weedwhacking, and generally making the churchyard look well cared for. Nice work!
Does anybody know how far back church records go as far as burials in the mid-1800s? I live very near to the church and a few years ago I found a headstone for a baby. It was in 2 pieces, a third piece was missing. Would like to reunite the baby with his parents, assuming they are there also.
G-po G-po, not sure about records, but you might get lucky by posting the family name here. Anyone who visits the graveyard could keep an eye out for the name.
Just returned from Mt. Bethel Rd. cemetery. I was looking for the name Henry and Charity(?) Miller. I found a headstone on my property belonging to their son who appears to have died in 1868. His name, I think was Liffie. I did not find any Millers on any of the stones. Will go back when the bugs are not so bad. If anyone is in the cemetery and sees the name Miller, let me know. Also if there are Millers in the area, maybe they are related. Would like to reunite the stone to its proper place.
G-po
Have you ever looked up your property on an atlas from the era of when the child died? Back then there weren't the same rules and regulations in place about burials and it may be that the child was buried near a favorite tree or landmark that they used to enjoy, unless indeed it was an infant, many of which were also buried on the family property and sometimes on the outskirts of cemeteries, not always next to their parents.
The main Warren County Library would possibly have burial records for that cemetery, as may the Hackettstown Historical Society (since they have various records of the area, not just Hackettstown proper). I checked findagrave.com and found no records of a "Charity" Miller, but 10 results for Henry Miller in the county, some of which are too young (could have been a brother of the deceased) or likely too old to have been the father:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gsr&GSfn=Henry&GSmn=&GSln=Miller&GSbyrel=all&GSby=&GSdyrel=all&GSdy=&GScntry=4&GSst=33&GScnty=1927&GSgrid=&df=all&GSob=c
Here's a Henry Miller in Hackettstown Union Cemetery:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Miller&GSfn=Henry&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=33&GScnty=1927&GScntry=4&GSob=c&GRid=26673142&df=all&
There's also one in Greenwich Twp.:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Miller&GSfn=Henry&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=33&GScnty=1927&GScntry=4&GSob=c&GRid=31557467&df=all&
G-po
There were a lot of bugs in the area when I was there too. Many of the stones have fallen and been covered over, so a complete restoration of the place would perhaps include either taking up the layer of "grassy weeds" and replanting after carefully checking for hidden stones or going in a grid pattern like archaeologists using dull probes to look for more stones, using 3 to 6 inch squares or so.
There are a number of scenarios one could imagine that may have happened as far as the child's stone ending up where you found it and where the family may be buried as well. A local history of Mansfield Twp. may also list the family and would be worth looking into, as it may provide some detail.
I also checked my copy of the 1874 Atlas of Warren County and found 2 people named "H. Miller". One was in Pennsville along current Rt. 57 and the other in Jackson Valley towards the western border of Mansfield Twp, You just had to get me interested in the mystery, didn't you? LOL
By the way, here's a picture of the stone that eperot mentioned earlier. I couldn't post it before until someone revived the thread since you're not allowed more than two posts in a row... .
BTW, Rebecka I owe you an email. I'll try to get it to you soon.
Thanks. I am trying to decifer the headstone further. He apparently was 1 year, 1 month and 1 day old and died in 1867.There was also a poem engraved that I am trying to read. Appreciate the feedback.
G-po
A trick shown to me at a cemetery preservation workshop by a gent from the Hope area was to use a mirror to reflect sunlight on it from to the side to about 45 degrees from the side in order to highlight the light and shadows as much as possible and take digital pictures of it. From there try different effects with Photoshop on the digital picture to try to get the best legibility. The mirror trick was surprisingly simple at how it made things stand out to begin with. He had a door type mirror mounted on a custom gimbal with which to try various angles of light and he didn't then need an assistant to hold it while he took pictures or vice-versa.
Hello all - has anyone compiled a list of the names that are on headstones in this cemetery - at least those that are legible? And/or know where the cemetery records are kept, and if they're available online? I'm researching DeGraw, in case anyone has been there and seen this name.
Hope Hope
If you go to the findagrave website and click on "View all interments" you'll find a llist of what they know:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&CRid=2142522&CScn=Mt+Bethel&CScntry=4&CSst=33&
There are 312 listed so far, with 81% photographed. What I've found in the past is that sometimes there are duplicate listings, but that doesn't seem to happen too often, thank goodness. Many times the County Historical Society (or main County Library Archives) will have transcription records. The local Society (if there is one) or even the Hackettstown Historical Society (since it's in the area) may have them as well.
I see also that the Methodist Church has an Archival and Historical Center, which happens to be in Madison, NJ. Their website with search capability in several areas is located here: http://www.gcah.org/
Best of luck!
There is a very good list from 1977 online that was taken from the Genealogical Magazine of New Jersey, Vol. 52, No. 3 that has most if not all of the information available on the stones at the Mt. Bethel Cemetery at that time. It is here: http://raub-and-more.com/mtbethel.html
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