Guns vs. Cars - which kills more?

Interesting report http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/12/gun-violence-car-deaths-charts

5catmom 5catmom
Dec '14

Paging Mark Mc......

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Dec '14

Guns nor cars kill people.

People kill people.

reynolds
Dec '14

Do note that the results are considered close not because gun deaths are on the rise, but because car deaths are on the fall.

Also suicide by gun is almost twice that of homicide, a common included stat when it comes to gun death statistics, its nice to see it differentiated here.

Darrin Darrin
Dec '14

oh good another gun thread. I'm sure this will be completely different than the other 500 threads on this subject.

darwin darwin
Dec '14

well once in a while you have to throw it at the wall and see if it sticks

5catmom 5catmom
Dec '14

incorrect darwin, I just searched for the word gun on this forums search function and there was only 50 results, most of which were not even a gun thread, but someone just used the word gun in their post.

Your numbers are almost just as exaggerated as the medias gun death numbers!

Darrin Darrin
Dec '14

"Also suicide by gun is almost twice that of homicide, a common included stat when it comes to gun death statistics, its nice to see it differentiated here."

But still included when trying to prove the close comparison to car related deaths... As I've pointed out before, why is suicide "honorable" when it's a pretty girl taking a pill in Oregon but deplorable when someone chooses to use a gun instead? Same result either way.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

I also assume since 5catmom is so concerned, she will be selling her car(s) immediately and posting "Car Free Zone" signs on her property. Better yet, wear that on a pin, then you'll never be in a car accident.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

If it will make you happy Mark - I'll give it serious consideration ---

5catmom 5catmom
Dec '14

You need a license and registration to drive a car... and visible license plates.

Andy Loigu Andy Loigu
Dec '14

Not if you operate on private property or are just "carrying" it on a trailer (even a super powerful race car).

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

hey - have had a license since 1962 --clean record --last accident - about 8 years ago when a bear hit my front right side of my bumper - bear fine- bumper a mess---
plates have been visible since my first car- 1970 corona--- so worry not Andy---
I only get clumbsy when walking - lol

5catmom 5catmom
Dec '14

Also, once appropriately licensed, you can purchase and drive ANY car, truck, or motorcycle on ANY public street in ANY state, as young as ~16.

Maybe we should "regulate" guns like we do cars, huh?

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

Hey mark, you also forgot to mention

With a car if you mess up and hit someone or something, you can still continue to buy and drive cars, and insurance jumps in to save you from the bills

Darrin Darrin
Dec '14

Yeah, I am all for regulating guns just like we regulate cars or just merge the two: start with the same level of product safety regulations, followed by conducting the necessary research and statistics into mortalities. Then we would restrict the guns, like cars, to reasonable levels, no more Formula 1 guns. I would be more than willing to face backgrounds checks and mental health checks before I get a license or buy a car. No problemo. Just fasten that seat belt before you load up.

There are numerous car free zones in America.

Total gun death versus total car death, including suicides, is a valid comparison. Just because cars don't cause suicides, the total is still valid. But if you really want to parse the data, try car homicides versus gun homicides. Darn, that's a big difference. Now, gun accidents versus car accidents ---- ok, now there you gunnies got a winner. Personally I think the entire guns versus cars, guns versus pools, and guns versus butter knives is a non starter. Guns kill, they are the main weapon of choice for m u r d e r, you just point and click and you troubles are gone, and the country with the most guns m u r d e r s the most people by gun and generally has a higher homicide rate than other less gun populated developed nations.

Meanwhile the "guns don't kill" silliness. Suffice it to say that America has more guns and more gun homicides, not including suicides, than any other developed nation on the earth. We also rate above almost every other developed nation in the world when it comes to intentional homicide rate. Still think it's a cultural thing? While gun advocates are quick to say it's an gang issue, urban issue or even race issue, it ain't. Try this for sobering: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/09/gun-control

mistergoogle mistergoogle
Dec '14

Darrin - The search function only gives you the latest 50 results. There can be many more threads on a topic that aren't listed.


I'm glad Darrin and Mark still have the stomach to debate this ridiculousness, that has been shown as false time and time and time again.... even the American people have figured it out- 52% to 46% in favor of NO MORE gun legislation- and that DESPITE being within the 2 years after the Sandy Hook massacre, when gun control was (attempted to be) shoved down our throats. I think that speaks VOLUMES. The American people have woken up on the issue, are doing their homework, and learning.... rather than buying hook, line & sinker the "feel good legislation" put out by the anti-gunners.

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Dec '14

I'm just going to leave this here....

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/court-cases/breaking-court-rules-its-unconstitutional-to-ban-former-mental-patients-from-gun-ownership/

...talk amongst yourselves......

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Dec '14

From the CPSC web page :

"CPSC is committed to protecting consumers and families from products that pose a fire, electrical, chemical, or mechanical hazard. "

When guns start killing thousands by blowing up or catching fire, let me know (I won't buy those models). In the meantime, how exactly would the CPSC address the murder issue, MG?

Maybe they could introduce such life saving innovations like the "DO NOT REMOVE" labels on all pillows and mattresses...

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

the difference is that almost no deaths by car are intentional, while many of the deaths by gun are intentional.

ken e
Dec '14

Pro-2nd Amendment candidate officially wins Gabby Giffords old house seat.

Despite what some in the Democrat Party may believe, elections mean things. The absolute pounding offered by Republicans in November’s midterms does not mean that every American supports a conservative agenda; it does, however, mean that the majority of Americans wish for the U.S. to pursue a path that is different from the vision of America favored by the radicalized Democrat Party.

http://www.tpnn.com/2014/12/18/the-people-have-spoken-pro-second-amendment-candidate-officially-wins-gabby-giffords-old-house-seat/

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Dec '14

Thought you were done JR? ;-)

Calico696 Calico696
Dec '14

yeah yeah lol ;-)

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Dec '14

It doesn't. But you said you wanted cars and guns to be treated equally so all righty then, what are you afraid of? A safety recall versus waiting for the manufacturer.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
Dec '14

"the difference is that almost no deaths by car are intentional"


I'd classify any DUI closer to the "intentional" side of that equation, but again it's not correct to blame the "car" there either. We have plenty of DUI and distracted driving laws, but amazingly (I know this is hard to believe for some) people still break them. Even more amazing, we don't register/confiscate everyone's liquor cabinet when that happens.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

What safety issues need recalls that manufacturers haven't addressed? You're the one conflating "product safety" with "murder"... so now you admit that's just another MG red herring?

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

JeffersonRepub
exactly where did you get those statistics everything that I have read is that over 70% the American people want tougher gun-control at the bear minimum background checks for anybody purchasing a gun and the only reason why that didn't happen was because the Republicans have been bought off by the NRA gun lobby so don't give me this crap that the majority of Americans don't want tougher better gun control

oldred
Dec '14

If one more thread about the gun debate is started, can someone please *find* a gun and shoot me?

Rebecka Rebecka
Dec '14

oldred,

Your favorite radio station, NPR, reported it:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/10/369945677/gun-rights-outweigh-gun-control-in-new-pew-survey

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Dec '14

Re: Guns vs. Cars - which kills more?

In his defense, he did say "everything he read"...

It's probably just articles from Mother Jones, Brady Campaign, and Moms Demand Action....

The fact that Pew Research has never (going back to 1993) recorded gun control support at 70% is not his fault.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

I am with JR honestly, time and time again data is proven to be false, yet round and round we go, discussing the same topics, the same data, all to the same decision, which we all know what that is

Darrin Darrin
Dec '14

can we still buy a brand new clothes washer today that you cam open the lid on after you start a load? (yes/no)

consumers are being hogtied into having less freedoms under the guise of 'safety'

watch out for the curve balls coming your way from the government bureaucrats. they will strike you out.

dish washers that don't wash very well, toilets that don't flush very well, how much more regulation are you guys needing in your lives?

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Dec '14

What data was proven false?

Also, many a drunk has used a gun also.

Lastly, gun industry recalls are many and are at the discretion of the manufacturer since the CPSC has no legal control and ATF doesn't do recalls. Do you think the many recalls are done effectively?

mistergoogle mistergoogle
Dec '14

So recalls are many... sounds like the manufacturers are keeping tabs on issues that need to be addressed, no?

Seriously, name one specific outstanding safety issue a manufacturer is dragging their feet on... with cars, we always hear about things before the "authorities" get involved... Toyota gas pedals, GM ignition switches... eventually they recalled things, but it was in the news for months before the big names did anything for their customers.

Just one example for guns is all I ask... and not some anecdotal "my friend had a crappy trigger" but rather a widespread design safety issue that is being ignored because the CPSC doesn't have the proper authority.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

Before you feel too proud of yourself, the Remington 700 trigger is just about the only issue I can think of, and that's currently under manufacturer recall. Even there, out of 5 million rifles sold over 50 years, the number of injuries is in the 100's (some of those due to altering the stock parts - which violates warranties/safety warnings on a whole bunch of products).

The only other list of complaints I can quickly find about "dangerous" firearms, contains items dating back to 1953 (before the CPSC was formed and from some manufacturers that no longer exist) and even then it totals between 600 and 1000 cases over the last 61 years. Hardly the bane of society.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

now mg is attempting to use recalls as a rallying cry???

The straws you grasp at keep getting smaller and smaller....

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Dec '14

Rebecka , can I run you over with my car instead?
Hahhah


"So recalls are many... sounds like the manufacturers are keeping tabs on issues that need to be addressed, no?" How would you know? Quantity does not equate to quality or timeliness.

"Seriously, name one specific outstanding safety issue a manufacturer is dragging their feet on..." Yes, they are the angels of the business world. We should take gunny corp. management and place them highly up in all corporate and government organizations. Then we wouldn't need the CPSC or other hallway monitors. But again, how would you know?

Here's a few pages of recalls: https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=gun+recalls&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GDIS_enUS565US565&q=gun+recalls&gs_l=hp..0.0l2j0i22i30l3.0.0.0.7130...........0.K7vqrOkKGkQ

I am sure they were all proactive, no harm, no foul. Angels I tell you angels.

And that's just recalls, that doesn't begin to touch on possible safety issues. Before seatbelts, I remember guys like were saying: "sounds like the manufacturers are keeping tabs on issues that need to be addressed, no?"

"Seriously, name one specific outstanding safety issue a manufacturer is dragging their feet on"

" with cars, we always hear about things".

Well, I guess you just missed hearing about all the voluntary recalls and certainly don't have a clue as to the timeliness nor the damage the skirted by handling issues behind the barn door.

Again I was just agreeing with you that let's regulate cars and guns the same way, merge the two. It was your idea, remember.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
Dec '14

I think you misunderstood my question. I was asking for an example where a manufacturer HASN'T issued a recall for a known widespread safety issue. Somewhere that needs the CPSC to step in to do their magic.

I'm well aware that there have been more than one recall. The list you posted seems to support my assertion that the manufacturers are doing a good job when it comes to repairing safety issues. Some recalls aren't necessarily safety related, but performance/reliability related (if you send a gun in to get fixed it will be upgraded to the latest design, where possible). When's the last time a car manufacturer gave you a new engine because the next year's model was better?

I know you're trying to back me into a corner with the car = gun analogy by appearing to agree to the bargain. Well, were that to happen (not likely) you wouldn't just get the additional product safety rules/regs that you want... we'd roll back ALL of the purchase/possession/capacity and public operation laws already in place. Still want to make that deal?

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

Oh CBGB. That was terrible. Lol. Nice one.

Rebecka Rebecka
Dec '14

I would agree to CPSC oversight in the issuing of recalls if my ccw permit was nationwide. Done.

Brendan Brendan
Dec '14

There's one mistake that you're all making. Under the law driving is viewed as a privilege.
Under the US Constitution the right to bear Arms is a right.
There are two clauses written in that rather old fashioned legalese. The first has to do with a militia which would be something like the State National Guard. The 2nd clause refers to the citizen having the right individually to possess Arms.The first 10 amendment are also called the Bill of Rights and every Supreme Court has ruled that they are individual rights, not rights held in common.
If you don't like this then you are going to have to amend the Constitution to change it since amendments become part of it.

DaddyWarbucks DaddyWarbucks
Dec '14

Again you are somehow mistaking quantity with efficiency, effectiveness, and quality. Like saying "they have announced a lot of problems therefore they are doing a good job on safety."

From the list: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/remington-dont-call-gun-fix-recall-n263851 Remington skirts the lawsuits and bad rep by not calling the millions of replacements a recall. With thousands of complaints, 75 lawsuits, 24 deaths 100 serious injuries and a 7.85 million plus person class action suit, I guess this was timely. Or was it? Let's see, from 1979 to 2004.........angels I tell ya, angels.

I would say this qualifies as a manufacturer not issuing a recall for say, 25 years, with known deaths, injuries, lawsuits, etc. etc. etc.

Since that was within the first few of the list you goggled, I will let you discover how many gun manufacturer angels are dancing on the tip of your bullets. Or are they just businessmen in dealing in the business of death?

mistergoogle mistergoogle
Dec '14

As I stated... ~100 injuries/deaths out of 5 million sold (per your stats almost 8 million sold) over 40+ years. That's the worst you can come up with? 2.5 injuries per year?

You could probably find more people inured with forks and spoons while eating dinner over that time frame. Certainly more are injured by a whole host of things that the CPSC does monitor. Compare it to other dangerous items like say a lawnmower... 800 children run over, 20,000 injuries, and 75 deaths (20% of those are children)... PER YEAR.

Sounds like they need to put some more safety labels on lawnmower decks before they worry about firearm triggers (which even if they are defective requires violating the primary safety rules all firearm owners should know - even kids, if you didn't object to firearm safety courses in grade school).

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

Actually that's all we know about; no one knows how many Remington swept under the carpet via pay-offs combined with legal gag-orders. Without a CPSC oversight, just does not have to see the light of day.

Like I said, I do not have an issue with merging car and gun regulations. Sounds like a concept to me.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
Dec '14

"I do not have an issue with merging car and gun regulations"

Considering you've spent a whole bunch of time pushing for the exact opposite (further clamps on who can buy firearms, what they can buy, and where they can use them) you'll pardon me if I call BS on that statement...

When I can walk into a firearms dealership, and walk out with anything I want, cash, no background check, and "drive" it away with a full tank of gas across any state line I choose, then toss the keys to a friend so they can borrow it, then we can talk.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

The answer is always more bureaucracy!

Brendan Brendan
Dec '14

"Actually that's all we know about; no one knows how many Remington swept under the carpet via pay-offs combined with legal gag-orders. Without a CPSC oversight, just does not have to see the light of day. "

When in doubt, and you are backed into a corner.....use your imagination.....got it!

Darrin Darrin
Dec '14

Amazingly you're idea of merger is out with the bad and in with the good. Cool.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
Dec '14

Who are you talking to mg?

Darrin Darrin
Dec '14

guns - just gotta love them http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30636326
two year old shoots mom with gun he pulled out of her pocketbook --just watched a video of a test case - woman who had been hospitalized for mental illness was able to buy a gun - without a problem ---- something is a bit off here ---sorry to bring it up again but this story about the 2 year old really spoke to me

5catmom 5catmom
Dec '14

Re: Guns vs. Cars - which kills more?

So the mom is stupid for not securing the gun properly (purse carry is not generally recommended as it's not "on" the person). The same carelessness from thousands of other parents results in plenty of kids (many more than any firearm incident) getting into a bottle of bleach under the sink, the knife block on the kitchen counter, or through the unlocked pool gate with similar tragic results.

Is there a background check that prevents those from happening?

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '14

Mother Jones Magazine?? Enough said.

Heidi Heidi
Dec '14

Crazy story, but do not infringe on others rights when they are responsible.


Just a story of pure lack of responsibility, nothing to do with the gun.

Why is it we always blame inanimate objects for the stupidity of our fellow citizens?

Darrin Darrin
Dec '14

Well, I guess we don't have to work the "negligence" criminality issue on this one.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
Dec '14

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