Can ANYONE explain this General Lee Car with the Confederate Flag?
If some simply says "the guy is a fan of The Dukes of Hazzard" Then fine that is what I will tell my kids. However. When I was standing out at the parade today I saw the car in the parade and then a man standing next to me says "Yeah that's the real flag that car is the best". My entire family as well as my wife's family have been and are in the military. We both are american down to the core. I think it is sad when we have to divide ourselves by "cheering on" certain symbols that obviously have a history of race issues. After all if there was a car driving around with a Nazi flag there would be posts, or even a Muslem flag. Just food for thought. It would be nice to be able to answer my kids when asked "daddy why is there that flag on the car?". My question is why are there people cheering the car on? ANYONE?
Johnson Because...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M
(NOTE: Don't click if bad language upsets you.)
Mark Mc. 
Steven Sorry, try this one;
"www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23705803"
you may have to copy and paste
3wbdwnj If you want to know about the car, ask the owner of the car. I know some others on HL have and that's the only way to understand.
The reaction of the person standing next to you is a different story. That you can't fix.
GC You're "hard core Americans "....it's called freedom of speech, beliefs, opinions, all that stuff. Johnson, you're absolutely correct... as freedom of expression is only ok if it is politically correct ... and depending on what part of the country you live dictates what is considered politically correct. You're right on about the Nazi thing. So the whole "freedom " thing is very hypocritical. Thanks to your military family for putting their life on the line for the rest of us. I think you're all incredibly brave, but I am against war in general. Support the soldiers... not the war.
sallysimpson Thank you Mark! I forgot about that tune. Truly one of the greats. F yeah!
NoHopeForHumanity "...So the whole "freedom " thing is very hypocritical."
It's only hypocritical if you reserve it for yourself and don't afford it to others.
With regard to the comment made, I wouldn't worry too much about it? Others are allowed to believe what they want as long as they aren't causing harm. Personally I think that the connotations of slavery associated with the flag have been diminishing for the past 150 years, for most it's just a symbol of the South. Teach your children and the negativity will be gone in a generation.
"My question is why are there people cheering the car on? ANYONE?"
Because it's the Dukes of Hazzard!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JMyrVZpe7g
justintime its the Dukes of Hazzard car to me. But it came from a prime time tv show. That was meant to entertain us and I guess it did, a lot of people watched it and know of it today. I refuse to over think it and let it annoy me. But yes there are many racist people still and most likely always will be. But I'm not going to let them ruin my time. and as we can see from some of these threads on this forum hate breeds hate. so all I can think to do is, go in peace.
aguy Here's a link to the earlier thread on the "Tribute Car" that I think you're talking about:
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/632365
I can't speak to what the person next to you meant, since you can't read their mind, however people do seem to equate the Naval flag, generally called the "Stars & Bars" with everything from just a matter of "Southern Pride" to an emblem behind which to foment their racism. It's likely that the person who had the tribute car made was a fan of the TV series, which may have shown "good old boys" Bo & Luke Duke, but they were more or less country Robin Hoods battling the corruption of entrenched local government rather than pursuing any kind of racist agenda.
Being raised in the South a good part of my formative years, I've noticed just as much racism up here as I have in the areas where I lived. That doesn't mean it's not still there by any means, but normally (as some have mentioned to me) it's more overt and out in the open down there, while it's more covert and "stab you in the back" style up here.
Phil D. 
Booster90 Believe it or not, equal amount of racism was performed under the american flag (and unfortunately still is). Comparing the nazi flag to this is a bit much, the confederate flag is part of american history, and has commonly been used for the symbol of the south. I don't see the big deal, especially not on a tribute car to the dukes of hazzard. I recommend reading up on some american history and then explaining it to your kids.
Darrin It was the wrong color. EVERY Dukes of Hazzard car I have seen since the series was on TV is the wrong color... the General LEE was ORANGE- Mopar Orange maybe? So why do all these people paint their GL's RED? I don't understand. If there was any orange in that car's color yesterday, it wasn't enough to keep it from being RED.
JeffersonRepub 
LoBo yeah, I'll never "like" how parades celebrating a certain thing are turned into grand displays of commercial advertising... I find it distasteful. What does a car dealership, or a gym, have to do with St. Patrick's Day?
At least the local bars weren't serving "green beer" LOL. Sometimes we "Americanize" things TOO much.
"Thank God it wasn't a Muslim flag !"
I actually wouldn't have had a problem with that, so long as Christians & other faiths were also allowed to march an display (it IS...SAINT Patrick's Day, after all- it is a CHRISTIAN holiday, technically),
and as long as the muslims in the parade weren't doing this
Really Johnson? The entire parade and that's what you focus on? Your kids don't know about the Confederate flag? It's part of American history. Maybe it's time for a good history lesson.
I think Americans (even our young kids) should know ALL of American history...not just the watered down politically correct version everyone is spouting now.
People sure can get their panties in a wad over such silly things.
Heidi JeffersonRepub: yeah, I'll never "like" how parades celebrating a certain thing are turned into grand displays of commercial advertising... I find it distasteful. What does a car dealership, or a gym, have to do with St. Patrick's Day?
100% agree. I think it is extremely tacky to advertise your business in a parade. I intentionally make the decision that I will not patronize businesses that appear in local parades. I don't have a problem with the business's banners that say they are sponsoring the bands etc...but to drive a oil truck/trash truck etc during the Memorial parade/St Pat's parade is just tacky.
nancy 
Greg Without those businesses there would be no parade! For a parade to go off it cost a lot of $$$$$!! Bid businesses can be a participant, donate or sponsor. Businesses not in the BID PAY to be in the parade. (Its called revenue) There are budgets and we have to raise the money to meet the parade budget.
If you have better ideas then come and join the BID Event Committee. We never turn anyone away. Its hard work that we all enjoy participating in. We do it for "our town"! Its a great group that gives their time for all to enjoy. Are we perfect? Nothing is. LOL
Christine "Comparing the nazi flag to this is a bit much, the confederate flag is part of american history,"
Isn't the Nazi Flag apart of German history then too?
Both flags represent the lowest point in their country's history.
darwin Not to go off on a tangent, but there's ALOT more to the Civil War than "ending slavery".... some even say that was NOT the primary reason it was fought, but WAS the primary reason GIVEN. Anyone truly interested should do some research.... if you think the Civil War was "all about ending slavery" and was "North Union = good guys / South Confederacy = bad guys"..... you've got some learning to beyond what you were taught in public school.
Oh there are so many flags in history that could be shown in bad taste.
Perhaps to some, the Stars n Bars represents the rebel spirit of freedom and state's rights. I know growing up in the South that's what I thought. But now to a lot of us it represents the a huge loss of American life in order to protect a heinous practice if not the heinous practice itself and a lot of the evil that followed in it's aftermath.
So sure, a part of history, but certainly not one to wave in many folks faces and not expect some pushback. I don't think you can even legally use it on the General Lee anymore; think the owner's removed it from the brand.
mistergoogle The Confederate Flag flew over the slave states for 4 years (1861 - 1865). The United States Flag flew over the Slave States for almost 90 years. (1776 - 1861).
The Confederate Battle Flag was just that. A Battle standard. The Confederacy had 3 different national flags during the 4 years.
Under a Federal Law, the Confederate Flag instead of the United States Flag flies 24/7 in a New Jersey Location.
The major cause of the civil war was states rights. Some Americans wanted to be ruled by a government closer to home, not from Washington.
I didn't learn the facts in school unfortunately. I read books and became a Civil War Living Historian.
John C JeffersonRepub
one of the biggest reasons was states rights the right of people in some states to own other people
oldredFreedom of speech means you allow the Nazi's or racist to speak, but you also allow everyone to point at them and call them idiots. The first amendment is not only to say what is nice and pleasant but to speak the ugly freely. Personally I watched the Dukes of Hazzard in the 1970's, it was fun harmless comedy. The confederate flag is however a symbol and offends a great many folks. I would never cheer it or put it up, but have no qualms if someone else does.
It is always better if racist identify themselves, its a more honest position than the hidden racist. At least we know who they are.
Agust Can anyone explain why the fire trucks have to blast their horns at an inappropriate level. Out of control, I thought i was at a horn blowing contest
I believe even nap Car took out all pictures of the stars and bars in their Tribune to the rebel 500 race in their nap car Museum
As far a the issue people have with businesses advertising during the parade,
well why don't you go watch some other non-commercial parade instead...
something like the MACY'S Thanksgiving parade perhaps.
smtt23 Maybe they should cancel the parade since it has so many "problems". Some of you folks really have too much time on your hands.
CraftBeerBob Seems to me the meaning of the dixie flag has evolved a bit. Its more about the TV show, running moonshine, out-witting authority, more than anything racist. Like Nascar, it all started with the moonshine.
hktownie Well Thank you all for your great answers. It's refreshing that there are people in the "same race" that will take time to explain the situation. This is what I feel we need in all races. Sometimes we do not understand each other and the best way is to simply ask and not just "hate back".
PS My last local experience was I went fishing with my kids at oxford furnace lake and when I got out of my car I was told "I can't catch fried chicken in the lake" Which honestly I thought was extremely funny. I confronted the guy and the 4 families that were having a bbq and they just explained to me that their friend was drunk. So in this case maybe the guy yesterday was drunk also. lol watch out for that Liquor it will bring out the "truth". Thank you all again, it is nice to see cool smart people.
I don't think you can call out states rights as the major cause of the civil war. Perhaps a major cause but certainly not the major cause. I believe there were some other major reasons as well.
Gadfly It still flies at the capitol in SC John C.
+1 Johnson.
Flippin saying "he's drunk" is a lousy decision; they should have jumped all over the guy. And you're kids have to learn to live with and put up with this stuff so young.
Perhaps folks this is why we still have to overreach a bit on this crap especially if you believe in "broken window" theory. Perhaps this is why we need to overreach a bit and say ---- no, the Stars n Bars has no place in Hackettstown except in a history book.
The confederate flag is a part of American history, it symbolizes division and civil war ( The Confeserate States of America). It is a part of the souths heritage not New Jerseys. It doesn't belong here. All it represents in NJ is racism and ignorance. It's good toilet paper.
Yes, the Stars and Bars only belong in a historical setting like a civil war living history or re-enactment. I even have a picture somewhere in my vast collection from October 13th, 2000 with a Confederate group marching down Main Street here in Hackettstown with the dreaded Stars and Bars.
But MG, if you start banning things that you feel don't belong, then you have become part of the problem.
The flag in SC is not there under Federal Mandate MG. The New Jersey site was federally mandated and signed by, of all people, President U.S. Grant. It is the only US Federal property in the United States that flies the Stars and Bars instead of the Stars and Stripes 24/7. Yes, you can google it.
I've always found it amusing that I see so many confederate flags living here in Warren County. I want to ask these people, "you do know you are living in New Jersey, right?" But there seems to be a romantic ideal of the south for these folks that has no basis in reality, unless they really are just racist idiots. I guess I should be less surprised as Warren County is kinda backward anyway. But in any case, as my great History Professor James Reed said (a deep southerner himself, Harvard educated) the south were losers, plain and simple. Their economic system based off the use of free labor and Jeffersonian landed gentry ideals was at odds with the growing industrializing northern Hamiltonian form of democracy, which won out. Thank goodness it did. I'd suggest to these people who claim the Stars and Bars "the real flag" (like the OP's observation at the parade) move there. They get Mississippi, Arkansas, and Alabama. We get New York, Massachusetts, and Vermont. You get obesity, diabetes, sweet tea, and Wal Mart. We get the fittest state in the nation, good craft beer and co-ops.
eperot Well federal, smederal, the people of SC have spoken.
I agree, don't ban it. However I think Parade officials can issue requirements for decorum and taste. Personally, I would not sponsor an affair that included such bad taste.
Like I said, I don't think you can even have a legal "General Lee" with the flag; it has been removed from the brand by the owners.
However, if a group of marchers were in confederate dress and holding the flag ---- good for them. That's a historical setting to me.
On a different note, John, I recently did some personal research re the war, my heritage, and their journey. I did not realize how badly these boys were equipped for basic camping and how many died just getting from here to there whether by land or by sea. Amazing the body toll for travel alone.
MG:
It was said that the men marching to Gettysburg were dropping 2 or 3 men due to the heat. More men were killed in the war from bad food, illness, and weather. Your chance of survival of a POW camp was next to none. My ancestor was lucky to live out the war after being wounded in front of the stone wall at Fredericksburg.
If I could pick a war to be in, the Civil War would have been the LAST one I picked. Horrific conditions, "brother against brother", crude "modern" medicine, no thank you.
I'm more of a Revolutionary War buff (and WWII) myself, their conditions were every bit as bad as the Civil Wars', altho they didn't deal with the heat as much as the cold. Brutal wars indeed.
WW2 reenacting is getting big now. I won't do it because of the cost. Haven't seen any Nazi flags yet, but I'm sure it won't be too far off.
I'd love to be a WWII re-enacter.... in a P-51 Mustang! or P-47 Thunderbolt! Or F6F Hellcat! lol
I am the owner of the car everybody is talking about. For the people that commented about the color. In 2009 dodge ddidnt make chargers in hemi orange so thats why it isn't that color. For those worrying about the flag. The flag is part of the theme of the car. It doesn't make me a racist because I have it on my car. I grew up watching the dukes of hazard and always wanted the general Lee since I was a kid unfortunately the original 1969 general is a little out of my price range so when I came across my 09 anniversary addition I went out and bought it. The reason my car was in the parade was because the car club I belong to ( new jersey Mopar group) was in it. Our club does a lot of shows and events to raise $$$$ for different charity's all over Nj. For all you that are on here calling me a racist I'm sorry for your ignorance and for the person watching the parade that made the comment he or she should have kept their comments to their self.
Phil snyder Thanks for your comments, Phil. I've always liked your car. I would love see a Hellcat in Hemi Orange with the General Lee graphics.
Too bad Dodge just suspended new orders while they catch up on current ones.
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/03/16/dodge-hellcats-are-so-hot-got-suspended/
"Isn't the Nazi Flag apart of German history then too?"
Yes it is, German history...... and at a German history event or museum you will still see them, just as here in american, our history is our history, it is not something to sweep under a rug and never talk about again, how else does someone learn from their mistakes?
+1000 Phil for putting yourself out there and explaining to the concerned.
RIGHT ON, Phil!!!!
(BTW, wasn't ragging on your car specifically, I'm just surprised I've never seen a "tribute" GL actually painted hemi orange, in all these years.....)
"For all you that are on here calling me a racist I'm sorry for your ignorance and for the person watching the parade that made the comment he or she should have kept their comments to their self."
I don't think that the OP said that at all; I think he just described what he saw and heard while at our parade.
As to the rest, what do you expect when waving a flag oft associated with racists and slave owners? If it walks like a duck.......
"I'd love to be a WWII re-enacter.... in a P-51 Mustang! or P-47 Thunderbolt! Or F6F Hellcat! lol."
A number of years ago we went on a "Liberty Ship" cruise; these at the transport ships that ferried the boys to the war. Many of the boys were there and as the sun headed to the horizon, the Mustangs, Zero's and Messerschmitts rolled in; the enemy with the sun behind them. These ships were lightly armed but we opened up; the first thing I noted was --- hey, no screens, just crosshairs. As the planes dived they rolled along the ship, a few stories above the waves and I noted ---- geez, you can see their faces. And then they did a steep climb, like giant Harley's of the sky, just a guy with a huge engine strapped between his leg going almost straight up.
It was awesome.
The boys told me when they got on board, they would put their stuff below, grab a pillow and blanket and stay on deck for as much of the rest of the trip as they could. Floating coffins. One guy said his name was Lucky, he rode one once to Europe and another to the Pacific later. They had some great history to share.
Next cruise is May 9th out of Baltimore: http://www.ssjohnwbrown.org/living-history-cruise/
There will be fly-bys.
Phil - Can you post a picture of your car? I'd love to see it. I was a HUGE Dukes of Hazzard fan!
hopeful Now now mg, lets not start with the car owner, he did the right thing, stop ridiculing him. He said for all of you...that doesn't mean the op, there were plenty of other posters who took the "how could you" stance, and i do believe that's who he was speaking to, no need to bend it out of shape.
I for one am very impressed the owner took the time and had the courage to explain. I have seen the car in town, and although i am not a huge dodge fan, i would certainly take one over a ford! :-)
I got the chance to see this car..... very cool. Phil put a lot of time and money into it. The flag was painted on the top of the car. It wasn't a huge cloth flag waiving around. The trunk is signed by the cast of Dukes of Hazard.The owner is very nice.... into cars..not a racist.
Yes it is, German history...... and at a German history event or museum you will still see them, just as here in american, our history is our history
Correct at historical events and musuems. Not on back of pickup trucks or on front porches.
And Phil I understand why the flag is on the roof of your " General Lee" but I'm not sure I understand why it's on the other 3 locations on the car.
"And Phil I understand why the flag is on the roof of your " General Lee" but I'm not sure I understand why it's on the other 3 locations on the car."
Wow. And I guess if I disagree with anything Obama says, I'm automatically a racist, right? Some of you people are C-R-A-Z-Y
You don't need to understand. It's his car. He can detail it as he sees fit.
Darwin if you look at the original 1969 General Lee from the show you will see that the flag is on the roof and also on the trunk with a checked flag near the cb antenna. That is the only 2 places that the car has the flags. If u look at the original and you look at mine everything is in the same spot.
Hopeful if you go to YouTube and type in 2009 general Lee there is a 15 min video of the before and after of my car.
Was my first comment above that difficult to understand?
www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/672860#t672880
I think it applies well here
John C
While trying to find the Federal Property in NJ that you mentioned (out of curiosity) and having to sift through the results which keep mentioning the young guy who flew that flag from his pickup, I ran across a much earlier posting on Hackettstown Life:
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/1168
Wow, forum posting 1168 from back in the earlier days - 2007!
Hmmm...I would never think of putting essentially a new car in a parade. When I think parade vehicles, I usually think classics.
I have yet to see a Briggs & Stratton Flyer in a parade, though it would be cool. Nothing like a sled with bicycle tires, two seats and a fifth wheel motor. Not many places to put a Confederate flag on it, so at least it wouldn't be too controversial, though I'd be a bit afraid of it running over people in front of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUy6unkXzEE
Ahhh thanks for the memories Phil D. I still remember that old forum topic.
To help you with your research, the federal property I refer to is the Finns Point National Cemetery in Salem County.. Almost 3000 Confederate POW's From the infamous Fort Delaware on Pea Patch Island are buried there. The only US Flags allowed are the 7 small grave flags for the 7 Union soldier Guards also buried there. In a far corner of the cemetery are a number of small white tomb stones. They are for German POW's that died in captivity at Fort Dix during WW2.
Phil, I don't think anyone was calling you racist bc of your car. The OP asked a perfectly respectful question and that turned into a larger discussion of the use and meanings of the confederate flag. I was a DOH fan growing up and I dont think of anything else when I see your car. However, I would see that flag very differently in other contexts.
John C, thanks for the interesting history lesson. I get to Salem County a few times a year for work and am going to try to make a point of visiting Finns point.
The thread Phil D posted is very good and completely on topic. I recommend reading it. Thanks Phil!
Thanks John C! That's some interesting history there. It makes me wonder if Fort "Hellmira" in Elmira, NY is similar in terms of the flag, but the wiki page doesn't mention that at the Woodlawn National Cemetery where the deceased were laid to rest, but it was definitely the "Andersonville of the North" with a mortality rate of 25%, compared to Andersonville's 29%:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmira_Prison
Here's a link worth reading that discusses the Confederate flag vs. the Stars and Stripes. I can't say I agree with all it has to say, but I admit it brings up some interesting points, especially about slave-owning states that remained in the Union, as well as those states "Led by New Jersey" that enacted laws that banned free Blacks from living in their States. Definitely worth a read, despite the fact that it apparently was written by a Southerner from SC:
http://mrwebman.com/confederate-flag-trueth-1.php
the confederate flag means different things to different people
it's not always racist, but too many times is ,
in a historical setting, or in the case of the dukes car it can be displayed without the racial context
throughout my life, most of my african-american friends, neighbors and working colleagues have seen this flag as a symbol of hatred, slavery, and oppression, and out of respect for their feelings i stopped wearing a bandanna that i used to own that had the stars and bars on it
in the context of the car and the parade, personally i don't see it as a racist statement, but others from a different heritage than mine may differ
either way it seems to me to be a good teachable moment for your family, get them around the kitchen table and explain the different contexts that this flag gets displayed in, stars and bars on a car from a iconic 70s tv show is completely different than the stars and bars shown along side the nazi flag at an american nazi party event, many pics in the news over the last 60 years show this and it is disturbing to say the least.
kids today are smart enough to see the difference in the two contexts, so a good teachable moment for them
i no longer own that bandanna out of respect for others feelings on it, (i was very young at the time) besides, who wears bandanna head bands anymore? the 60's are dead and over, it was in all the papers
BrotherDog Darwin, you are still using what happened in Nazi era to compare to what happened under the confederate flag, completely different levels and no where near comparable IMO
Ridicule? I think not. When I said "walks like a duck" I meant exactly that.
While I take Phil at his word of not being racist and just loving the spirit of the show, if it walks like a duck, you have to expect negative feedback based on what the symbol portrays. Same can be said for using the symbol in the TV show.
In my beloved West Virginia hills, the charger rules the mountains. It is much more beloved than the TV show. Personally I am a Chevy man, love Darrin's Nova, think Camero's are the best, but the Charger stands out as the king of the West Virgina mountains. Not that many General Lee's though, probably can find more Lime Green.
The Pirate flag glorifies some pretty gruesome behaviors too and today it is a Halloween standared amongst other day-to-day accepted uses. We got over it. It's a matter of timing.
The Confederate Flag represented a group of states that supported slavery. Sugar coat, deflect and rationalize it any way you want; these were slave holding states. And not just slavery of the vaquished in battle but targeted, industrialized, slavery of a single race of men, women, and children treated as sub-human chattal. You can say state's rights, you can say most Southerner's didn't have slaves, you can say most joined the war effort to defend against the North's incursion, but no matter how you cut it; 33% of the people in the South were owned property; one of the major reasons for the Stars n Bars and the Civil War was defense of slavery.
Freedom of speech is great and Phil has done nothing wrong. I go with BDog's assessment that it's just better not to. And if you do, then expect some heat about it; it's fair too. A lot of America has a real, tangible, bad realtionship with this flag and no amount of "get over it" is going to make that go away. A lot of us feel their pain and think it's just to soon to roll out the Stars and Bars for entertainment.
Ridicule, hardly. Do what you want, it's the land of the free. But recognize that it's a duck. The flag you fly was a symbol of a time when we were not the land of the free. Many of the organizations that use the flag do not stand for freedom. And vestiges of that time through our current examples of predjudice, racism, and hate occur way to often in way too many places. It's just still too soon to forget that this flag was the banner of American slave states and what slavery in America was.
Genocide of the indigenous North Americans was perpetrated under the Stars and Stripes. Should the poor bastards existing in squalor on the godforsaken reservations be able to demand that Old Glory no longer flies anywhere, because of its symbol of racial prejudice and religious intolerance resulting in the almost complete eradication of a noble race of people? Like you said, different flags mean different things to different people. Where do you draw the line?
ianimal "My question is why are there people cheering the car on? ANYONE?"
I wasn't at the parade but if I were I would have "cheered on" Phil's car because:
As justintime said "It's the Dukes of Hazard"
- it reminds me of being about 10 years old
- it reminds me of cheering on "the good ole boys" as they defeated the bad Boss Hog
- it reminds me of laughing at the antics of Roscoe P Coltrane
- it reminds me of climbing in and out of my parents station wagon through the windows because the Dukes didn't use doors (why can't we weld ours shut???)
- remembering how badly I wanted Daisy Duke's jeep when I was old enough to drive (and I wanted to grow up to look like her and be beautiful but sassy and smart. I was 10 and I'm sure she was objectified left and right but that's another argument for another thread, let me have my 10 year old's memory of the Duke family).
- remembering how I told my Mom that I was going to marry Luke Duke - John Schneider was one of my first crushes and the reason for many "Tiger Beat" issues purchased with my allowance. Actually I think I told her I was going to marry John since I knew it was all just acting, but it's a fuzzy memory.
I see Phil's car around town and what runs through my mind is NOT my job, my mortgage, my responsibilities... it's "just some good ole boys, never meanin no harm, makin their way the only way they know, that's just a little bit more than the law will allow". And again how dreamy I thought John Schneider was....
I get to be 10 again for a minute.
Not to downplay anyone else's feelings, but you asked why and that is why I would.
Nothing to do with a flag or any association other than a silly TV show.
DaDogMom "I get to be 10 again for a minute. "
GREAT post, DaDogMom!!! And I think nearly everyone here can relate......
People get offended too easily these days, even looking to take offense where none is given or intended.
good point ian, agreed
being of native american heritage, i fly the us flag and am proud of it, others not so much
still a good teachable moment for the family involved, while the car was not displayed as a racist statement by the owner, the racist standing in the crowd sure showed himself for who he really is. this is something i would go over very throughly with my children.
I recognize the history of the flag and the pain it may cause some people but I have to admit, when the flag is painted a Charger, I immediately think of the Dukes despite knowing its history. I guess it's true what they say about first impressions.
My first exposure to it was on The Dukes. I just knew it as some symbol on the top of the General Lee. We used to watch that show every week and it was a fun show to watch. It wasn't until much later in life that I learned about the flag itself.
emaxxman 
Clancy All you people getting bent out of shape over a flag need to lock yourselves into a cave away from the world if you are that sensitive. Symbols and words only hurt you if you let them. It just seems that many of you aren't happy unless you are complaining.
Jazzykatt Ok so I understand the whole Dukes of Hazzard thing again I grew up on them as well, along with Archie Bunker etc: However we are older, we can look past stuff like I looked past it. My children read and if you go online you will see that flag associated not only with the KKK but also many other groups of the same type. Now I personally understand that those people took that flag and did harm to it but staining it with their own hatred. So when the flag is on a car "the first thing some people think of are those hate groups" INSTEAD of what the flag really means. Personally I am a big fan of freedom of speech no matter where you are in the USA but this man who was cheering was NOT cheering because of the dukes of hazzard he was cheering on the other meaning and it was clear by some of his other comments. Again I guess it comes down to the individual. You all here seem like decent people. Decent people make race relations move forward together by understanding each other and explain the FACTS! Hate is just BS!
Does anyone think people freaked out, back when "Dukes of Hazard " was on? I don't think so. I wish we could turn back the clock a few decades.... All in the Family, Sanford and Son , etc.
Wow. And I guess if I disagree with anything Obama says, I'm automatically a racist, right? Some of you people are C-R-A-Z-Y
You don't need to understand. It's his car. He can detail it as he sees fit.
Wow well that was certainly a strange leap you made JR. And to answer your question, no I don't think it does make you AUTOMACTICALLY a racist :)
I was simply asking a question. I understand why the flag is on the roof, and Phil answered my question. Thank you Phil. I was looking at my Matchbox car I still have from '83 and it only had the flag on the roof.
Again the flag on this car is fine with me and I agree with the Owner. I have no issue with it on the car nor do I have any issue with the Owner's intent. My issue is with those who were defending the Flag in general. To me that flag represents the worst part of our Country's history. I don't find it to be a symbol we should praise and be proud of. But that is my personal opinion.
"I wish we could turn back the clock a few decades.... All in the Family"
You do realize that that show was a commentary on the racist nature of white people in this country at that time? Or did you simply think it was about a grumpy father-in-law and his constant verbal abuse of a SIL named Meathead?
I have no doubt that Phil's intent was simply to have fun and enjoy the nostalgia that was the Duke gang. Heck, the new Autotrader with Bo and Luke commercials are fun to watch.
For anyone to say, "I wish we could go back to the good ol' days", just demonstrates that they were ignorant to the plight of minorities (including women) at the time. Unless you were a white, heterosexual male, there was nothing great about the good ol' days. This country was still just coming to grips with a civil rights movement and race relations were at one of the most volatile points in history. Many families today still carry the scars of having fathers/grandfathers lynched by the Klan for doing innocent things like talking to a white girl.
To those who say the flag meant something honorable at one time, perhaps it would be beneficial to your cause to educate the rest of us instead of just saying it doesn't stand for racism. I know it was something honorable at some point and I, for one, am open to hearing whatever you're willing to say about its history. Unfortunately, it was co-opted by a bunch of white hood wearing racists....kind of like Islam has been co-opted by a bunch of black hooded decapitating murderers (but that doesn't stop people from stereotyping all Muslims, does it?)
I would be great to see a TV show that was sort of "anti-All In The Family"... meaning, one that illustrates through crazy PC-brainwashed liberals how out of control and ridiculous political correctness has gotten in the last 30 years....
All they'd have to do is hire actors fresh out of college. :)
Thank You Phil for your email I appreciate that. You are NOT the ignorant one here Phil!!! The gentleman standing there at the parade saying racist comments is the ignorant one here. I am sure you are a cool guy and I am sure it was never your intention to say "let me drive around and be openly racists" it just doesn't make sense so for that I apologize if that is what you thought. This guy that was standing by my family was "definitely" a racists by the many comments he made. The only reason I did not record him and put him on the internet to the around 13 million followers I run "as my day job" is because I love Hackettstown and I would never want ANYONE on the outside to think this town was ever like that. From the municipal to the fire department and all of the people in it "except this one dude" this town is the best!
It is a shame the the phrase "the good ol boys" has so many meanings to so many different people. Now phill that you sent me that email it is just more proof that the view of that 1 man is only his view and not the view of the many. Thanks again Post done!
" It's his car. He can detail it as he sees fit." Absolutely, I think we all agree. Freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of taste.
I think we can all agree to literally all the comments made here too, for and against.
To me, I lean in the direction of those who feel agrieved at the image and more so to those who face the "stirrings' that this image evoked in the crowd. Especially the children since that is not something that should be a teachable moment in that setting in that way.
Iman makes a comment on the Stars and Stripes and I agree, our attack and persecution of Native Americans is beyond shameful, it's criminal. Probably can dredge up a number more. Of course, Native Americans were not unarmed, shackled, and they scored a few victories as well, some notable. Another minor point, today's Stars and Stripes was not flying then, a minor difference of star configuration. Additionally, and again minor, we are talking about a 1% affected population versus a 13% affected population although all Americans might be affected at some level, if so inclined.
But the bottom line is two wrongs don't make either right and I really don't know how to reconcile some evils done under the Stars n Stripes banner; but parading the Stars n Bars is certainly a step in the wrong direction ------ at least at this point in history.
It's a matter of sensitivity and taste. I personally thought the show was OK, loved the car, still love the "rebel spirit" of bravery and chivalry that the flag embodies, but yeild to the sensitivities of the dark side of the flag and yeild to the pain it causes especially since racism still exists and is evidenced all over America all the time. We can say it's getting better, but we have a ways to go before we finally cross that river.
I'm done too.
So why, when the dukes of hazard came out on January 26, 1979 weren't people outraged about the flag? Has that much changed with the resemblance of this flag from 1979 till now?
I personally have not a bit of an issue with this flag because I look at it as American history, has nothing to do with hate, racism, or anything else bad like that to me because i do not partake in those type thoughts or activities, I see it as purely history. Down south this flag is flown freely and nobody says a word, yet it is full of apparent controversy in the north.........
The rebel flag is symbolic of a lot of things, good and bad, same as the US flag we fly today. It's the intentions and ideology of the person displaying it that gives it meaning. For the majority, it's about heritage, not hate. Don't let the PC crowd tell you any different.
Bruin "So why, when the dukes of hazard came out on January 26, 1979 weren't people outraged about the flag? Has that much changed with the resemblance of this flag from 1979 till now?"
I'm sure plenty of people were outraged... by themselves, home and alone. It's all about the internet... plus we've become more sensitive and PC in the last 35 years; there's certainly no denying that fact, either.
ianimal - It's not only that, but there were items on news shows both about the theme of the show (including stereotypes) and the Daisy costume. Since then there were people bringing up the same things, in an organized way, during the release of the first movie. Some writeups I've seen are even from people that weren't alive 35 years ago to have the first hand knowledge.
"plus we've become more sensitive and PC in the last 35 years; there's certainly no denying that fact, either."
ianimal, that is certainly the nice way of saying it
I like what Bruin said
You cannot change history, but you can certainly learn from it.
I was in the new Hobbytown USA store in the Byram Shop rite Plaza this afternoon on the way home from work and looked at the General Lee model box out of curiosity and saw that oddly enough, the color of the car on the box was more red than orange and it didn't show the Battle flag on top on the box. They showed a rear view of the car that showed the back part of the top and it did look as though the flag was actually missing from the model (since it was mentioned above that they dropped the flag from the brand).
I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not, since the flag was on the original car and it didn't represent hatred or racism in the show, but a rebellious attitude towards corrupt and overreaching government and "law enforcement". As BrotherDog mentions, it's a good opportunity for discussion of the history behind it. The funny thing is that Kanye West, who I have little respect for due to his own seeming narcissism and completely disrespectful comments and behavior towards others, actually has been seen sporting that particular flag on the shoulder of his jacket. That kind of stands the whole issue on its head.
Oddly enough, I saw the other Phil's tribute car at the Northerly end of Waterloo Rd. this same afternoon on my way to the Byram Plaza. He was heading South towards Hackettstown as I was on my way North.
"Don't let the PC crowd tell you any different." Amazingly it's the non-PC crowd here that is probably the first to take umbrage at any digs at their turf. It's easy to be upset when you're the target but hard to understand that others might be upset not only by the appearance of the flag but what it evokes from the current audience.
This is not about PC, it's about sensitivity. You heard what Johnson heard as the General strolled by. Others heard it; it was a teachable moment. Only Johnson and family learned anything during that outburst at the parade in honor of the General Lee; no one spoke up. Perhaps they all talked about it later. Yeah, right.
If this about an homage to the flag and the TV show, I say, by all means do it right. Get those flag T-shirts, wave little ones proud, dress those daughters of Dukedom in Daisy Dukes, my favorite show icon. I will do my part with some un-PC but really-not-sexist comments for them.
Yes the show had it and not enough flack was raised to change it.
The 2005 movie not only retained the flag, but added it through Cooter's rehabilitation. However, hard to find it in any movie photo-ops, it's there, but not prominent. Probably trying not to dis over 15% of the potential market before they rent the flick.
Since then the Warner Bro's brand has opted to drop it; apparently Phil D. confirmed that. Good for them. And the toy is still stocked.
The new AutoTrader spots do not include the flag. Good for them. And the stars still starred.
Not one HLer posted a picture in support of the flag. Good for you.
Perhaps the General Lee did spark Kanye's co-opting the symbol but if you think that's OK, then I guess the n-word is cool. But Kanye has a different idea and I think it's a bit of an UY: "I’m not even sure he means for these items to sell so much as he is making the statement that he, Kanye West — one of the richest, most culturally influential, and most famous black men in America — can essentially put his name on the goddamn confederate flag. Imagine how offensive that is to those who’ve traditionally embraced that flag and what it stands for? He can own it and he can sell it. It belongs to a black man. It’s his property." dailybanter.com I will leave out the KW quotes, they are crass.
Think we can sum it up by quoting the movie: "Nice roof, redneck! ... Join us in the 21st century?!"
Perhaps someday this flag won't evoke such reactions, pro or con. But not today, not today.
Do remember, that according to Johnson, all the person at the parade said was "Yeah that's the real flag that car is the best" so lets not run off topic with this, we do not know what side of the fence the shouter was on.
I am not sure why that would spark anyone to speak up....my take, people are sensitive but don't have the courage to confront someone about it because it is a touchy subject.
Not really sure why Kanye would wear the flag if it has such an apparent negative reflection on his culture, maybe he too isn't as sensitive as some of us, and realizes that it is a piece of american history?
Wow this is still going. I will try and close it out the best I can!
The guy that was standing next to my interracial children was a racists ass who said several racist things. It just so happened that a FAN OF THE DUKES OF HAZZARD drove by just at that right time for this man to "wrongly use" the flag on the top of the car to represent his own racist ways. Paul is cool I have seen PLENTY of cars wrapped in my times, along with custom vehicles, I actually now give him more credit for standing by what he likes no matter what people say.
"The major cause of the civil war was states rights. Some Americans wanted to be ruled by a government closer to home, not from Washington. "
Yea, so they could use states rights to keep people as slaves. Nice symbol.
Yes, they have the right to be creeps. I don't have to like it, but if you don't think the Confederate flag is nasty you should have your head examined.
interesting, now the real story is told, I would be interested in knowing what this "racist" man was saying, but I am sure that is not fit for this forum. I also am wondering why you did not report this man to the police, they are all over at the parade.
" I don't have to like it, but if you don't think the Confederate flag is nasty you should have your head examined."
It's a symbol, and guess what? Each of us can react to symbols in a way that we deem appropriate. I choose to let history be just that - history. I can not erase the past, but I can choose a positive path for the future. I think even giving this subject a forum is worse than the actual words because all it's doing is perpetuating the negative aspects of history. I would just let it go and not give power to those who use the flag for their own propaganda.
" I also am wondering why you did not report this man to the police"
Why would you do that? Was there a crime committed?
JIT, yes I would
If a man was, and I quote, "standing next to my interracial children was a racists *** who said several racist things"
I would of said something to him myself, or if that was not a option reported him to the police.
Although it seems the OP does not want us to talk about this anymore.
I think it's more of a generational thing growing up here in the 50s and 60s I don't remember ever seeing a rebel flag except for history books the first time I actually seen 1 was in Vietnam and nobody seemed to care one of the first times i was out on patrol and had enemy contact about 1/3 of our patrol was African Americans when the first few shots rang out and everybody hit the ground it sounded like everybody had fallen on dogs is probably the best way to describe it I said to the guy next to me did everybody get hit he started laughing and said no man that's the rebel yell scares the hell out to Vietcong some of the African-American guys had rebel flags on their tents they wanted people to know that they where from the South
Earlier today I actually passed the General Lee car in town. Beautiful car Phil! It made me dust off my little General Lee.
From dictionary.com
freedom of speech
noun
1.
the right of people to express their opinions publicly without governmental interference, subject to the laws against libel, incitement to violence or rebellion, etc.
Heritage not hate! now will people stop getting butt hurt over stupid crap like this and complaining about it online. freaking rediculous
Exactly JIT. Freedom from the Govt. Not public reaction. Amazes me how some just don't understand that part.
Idk darwin, just before you said:
"My issue is with those who were defending the Flag in general. To me that flag represents the worst part of our Country's history. I don't find it to be a symbol we should praise and be proud of. But that is my personal opinion."
Unless of course you were practicing your freedom of speech to block other's freedom of speech?
Darwin, I guess I don't understand either because I'm not sure the point you're trying to make. You see the flag differently from what others see, fine. What do you propose to do, except simply disagree?
Nothing. I didn't recall saying it should be banned. But I am allowed to have a reaction to seeing it. My post was in response to painkillers post. We are allow to react to seeing it and allowed to debate the flag. And I agree with your response to Darrin's no need to call the cops because of what that man said. He is ALLOWED to say any racist thing he wants. Not against the law. But we as the public are allowed to react to his statements.
People use the term freedom of speech as we are allowe to say what we want and there can't be any backlash or repocussions for saying it. That's not true. Freedom of speech only protects you from the government
"He is ALLOWED to say any racist thing he wants."
It depends on what he was saying, according to the OP he was "saying several racist things" and that can be construed as harassment, which is against the law.
Sooooooo it seems that after all this there are actual other people who have an issue with this flag Charleston is going to take it down now. Seems it does bother people!
why is everyone so set on this flag and bitching about it but you see people walk across the American flag and you don't see big long posts about that
big mike no more stars and bars on the toy General Lee
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/general-lee-from-dukes-of-hazzard-losing-its-122294326432.html
Absolutely ridiculous darwin. Thanks public! Only here do we find some inanimate object to blame rather then blaming people or ourselves for our actions.
Oh for crying out loud, it's not about blaming the object! It's about not honoring or displaying a symbol that is associated with slavery and hate, regardless of its other associations. This is why we don't have clothing with yellow Stars of David on the pocket.
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