Bergen Tool Project Phase 2: Townhomes and Apartments

well what did the engineer say at your secret meeting?

Brad2
Aug '16

Here we go again with Darren's platform

Smitt
Sep '16

Darrin, thanks for the update and helping to keep the community informed. For those who have concerns about this project, this will be a meeting you want to be at to voice your concerns.

Chris Morpeth ✉
Sep '16

Sounds like alot more people could move into Hackettstown if this goes through. Can our schools handle the influx?

Mansfield mama ✉
Sep '16

The school superintendent has been discussing this with the community and its stakeholders for over 2 years.

The school district has completed demographic studies for both this project as well as Bilby Rd. Additionally, this was discussed through strategic planning & community open meetings when discussing of moving the school boundary lines and the subsequent impact to the district. The school administration has been working with the board of education to prepare for the impending impact during the budget process.

All of this information including the detailed demographic study and facility presentation are readily available to review on line at the district website, please call or e mail if you have any concerns.

Gus Bordi ✉
Sep '16

Thank you Mr. Bordi.

pampurr ✉
Sep '16

FYI

6. Case #16-01, Jade Hackettstown Associates, LLC
Block 21, Lot 18
(CARRIED TO OCTOBER 25, 2016)

Darrin ✉
Sep '16

1988LJ

"type" and "good" mean what exactly? Ones that don't shop at Dollar General or Fruti-Mex? I guess by "non-CVS retailers" you mean CVS will be the only business in the "mall" area and the other properties will be vacant? That part didn't make much sense to me since all other retailers besides CVS would be "non-CVS", but that's an odd way to state it, unless we should be reading between the lines.

Phil D. ✉
Sep '16

No, I don't mean like that. I'm not insulting other stores. I'm saying that if other retailers don't move into the center, then it would be empty which would be sad. Don't read between the lines for God's sakes. I was just implying that if no stores other than CVS move in, then it would be empty. And the comment about the town homes was just me expressing my pleasure that these will not be 8-story council tower blocks like you might find out east. Chill out, everyone.

1988LJ ✉
Sep '16

"good" "type" Them's trigger warning words LOL!

Denis ✉
Sep '16

Bravo positive. You are 100% right.
Couldn't have said it better.

Justintime - positive mentioned right in her post, that you commented on, that she has a 25 year old daughter-

Botheredbyuu2 ✉
Sep '16

1888LJ - That clearly wasn't all you said - "my pleasure that these will not be 8-story council tower blocks like you might find out east." I wonder how many people are familiar with that term since it doesn't exist in this country. Or how many realize just how much you confirmed what you said initially.

GC ✉
Sep '16

Maybe everyone should go to the next meeting and promote low income housing. That would eliminate any current, unsafe overcrowding in rentals. As long as it is subsidized by the federal government, I think it's a good alternative use of the space. Maybe even a higher property tax property for the town then.

maja2 ✉
Sep '16

So....why are you mad at 1988LJ for using "British terms that people here are unlikely to know, and most don't apply" I am confused....what are you implying GC?

Darrin ✉
Sep '16

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be confusing. It's just my 4 years of undergrad in London coming through, I figured those were the best words to use since I didn't want to say "projects" because that has a bit of a racial connotation. Not trying to cause any confusion. Those were just the best words I could think of.
But you get my point. I don't want government or low-income housing, not necessarily because of the people who live in those situations but because of the crime and lower living standards they bring. Not so much the racial or economic aspect.

1988LJ ✉
Sep '16

JIT, I agree, however from my experience bigotry is mostly derived from upbringing. Of course the outside environment is another factor, but I still think the majority of the underlying problem comes from within the family.

Thank you BBU..I appreciate it!

positive ✉
Sep '16

1988LJ, just do a forum search of all your posts and think about how others would perceive them....

positive ✉
Sep '16

LOL, subsidized by the federal government means you and me -- the taxpayers.

No silver bullet here, but a lot of the solutions are not politically correct...

iJay ✉
Sep '16

Maybe somebody can explain to me what exactly "low income housing" means in this situation... Are we talking about houses that are "cheap", driven by market demands... Or is this some other type of government driven/sanctioned/controlled situation?

brendan ✉
Sep '16

There's probably only going to be a few low income housing units available. Usually, when a developer wants to build condo or townhomes, they have to legally set aside several units available for low income housing. Not sure if the rules apply, in this situation.

sparksjbc1964 ✉
Sep '16

sparks - Check the previous Bergen thread. All of that was discussed ad nauseum. Any talk of COAH is FUD, which answer's brendan's question that there is no meaning in this situation. That's because the developer also has the option to pay into a fund for future development. That was the choice announced long ago so there is no COAH at the Bergen site. It's also been settled long ago that the Princess Towers site on Bilby would be where COAH housing would be included. However, the whole rules involved keep changing over time so what exactly that involves and how many units may well change.

1888LJ - I apologize then, I thought I was helping a Brit who didn't know they wouldn't be understood. Since you're an American who happens to know the terms, you chose those so people wouldn't understand the class division they imply.

GC ✉
Sep '16

GC, just because the developer has showed interest in buying out of COAH does not necessarily mean it could not happen...right?

Correct me if I am wrong, but in what formal, permanent way has the developer stated there will not be COAH?

Everything else has changed at one point or another, and we still do not have approved plans...........

Darrin ✉
Sep '16

Just a reminder there is a meeting tonight at 7:30pm but Jade phase two was carried to the October meeting. Maybe they can explain to us why they were so close to being approved last time, and now they keep missing meetings?

Darrin ✉
Sep '16

I think it will be the October meeting, but I would think tonight they will discuss, or at least fill us in on why Jade has not been back since a few meetings ago.

Darrin ✉
Sep '16

It seems the meeting has been pushed off yet again..........

6. Case #16-01, Jade Hackettstown Associates, LLC
Block 21, Lot 18
(carried to November 22, 2016)

I do not know whats going on here....but I did get this letter in the mail today from Whitman about the site and contaminates found getting into the ground water

Darrin2
Oct '16

Page 3

Darrin2
Oct '16

Those contaminant levels don't look good. That should delay any more building for a while.

maja2 ✉
Oct '16

Hmmmmm.......thanks for making us aware of this ..this is important. What did they think? Idiots.

pampurr ✉
Oct '16

Thanks for letting me and my neighbors know this I live in back of the Bergen Tool property Fourth Street and East Stiger Street....this is very very bad news...

pampurr ✉
Oct '16

pampurr,

Is that what the certified mailing said?

The post office lost mine, so I have been unable to see it

Darrin ✉
Nov '16

It seems like it is the same letter that they sent out last time?

Selvaggi is representing Jade....Lavery, who was the formere mayor, is in the firm that Selvaggi is part of

http://lsaclaw.com/lawyers/

Darrin ✉
Nov '16

I didn't see certified letter and I live right across the street from CVS Pharmacy?

cloudyday ✉
Nov '16

It is the same law firm that has represented Jade from the beginning of this project so I'm not sure why it would be a surprise to anyone who has attending past planning board meeting.

And yes it is the same letter that went out last time, they just needed to re-notice so the same letter is fine, just update the date of the meeting.

Jim L ✉
Nov '16

Jim,

Wasn't there a detail on the letter that was a little off?

I remember the town attorney discussing it with the board that the notice should be adjusted, but Savaggi saying their letter was a catch all.

I think it was something about the size of the patios? and the to street distance?

Also, since last we saw, they moved a parking lot into the open space, the open space is no longer actually 3 acres is it?

Darrin ✉
Nov '16

Wow sparksjbc1964, that was some logic trail....sarcastic or not, time to put down the blunt :>)

Sure Felons can get low income housing unless on sex registry or housing project meth dealers. Even without this, I could take factually question the rest of your walk through the logic woods, but given the first step was into a mud puddle, I'll let you say ooops.

When I worked for a builder/developer in a different state, we used to put up middle-class single-family starter homes and rather nice townhomes, a little too nice for COAH. So rather than pay off the state, or build COAH housing amongst higher value homes, we would put up our standard unit and then rent it for X years at COAH levels offering the renter a buyout at the end of the contract (or we sold the house). I forget the time frame: 3, 5 years??

Funny thing is, apparently we applied so four young men ended up in a brand new home for COAH rent rates. Since we built it, we added some rooms, doors, windows, amenities, and had a very good time. When we left, sure it needed paint inside, a lawn and beer-fumigating, but someone ended up with the best outfitted house on the street.

IMO, Darrin's looking at the right issues. It will be about squeezing what they have proposed into the lot, or about adding units. I am guessing they financially favor townhomes at this point.

strangerdanger ✉
Nov '16

LittleRascal, that policy of dumping out the back was widespread. Every little company in NJ did it. That is why there are water problems in some rural areas. I believe Mansfield township has a similar situation that required some to have complex filtration systems. This comes from knowing someone in the 90s, went to his house and asked why such a commercial looking filtration system was in his house...

iJay ✉
Nov '16

How bout just closing CVS and either open a Salvation Army or Halloween store there. That pharmacy is bad enough alone to close the store.

Speill ✉
Nov '16

Lol. Case examples. Not "car"

Jim L. ✉
Nov '16

The point here is that if you have a concern, complaint or question what is going to be in your community pertaining to this project, then you need to come to this meeting. Complaining and brain storming on this forum doesn't get anything accomplished. I have found going to the meetings and voicing concerns to the boards actually gets things done. I might not get everything that I think makes sense for myself but this is a community and these meetings are the forum in which the people are heard and then plans are formulated for the good of all that have input. If you have a voice and have posted on this forum, then come out and get it on record. Hope to see you at the meeting.

THE MORP ✉
Nov '16

No Ballfield?

Pampurr ✉
Nov '16

that was my understanding, that the open space will be maintained by the newly created Homeowners Association. And if they want to build a playground, tennis courts, dog park they can. It is their land. I will confirm tomorrow night.

Jim L ✉
Nov '16

correct

Jim L ✉
Nov '16

So the HOA will pay for and maintain playground, tennis cts, etc but it'll have to be open to the public?

JWolfe75 ✉
Nov '16

Darrin - a certified letter receipt came in the mail on Friday

cloudyday ✉
Nov '16

Here is the copy of the notice

Meeting is tomorrow at 7:30pm

Darrin ✉
Nov '16

between the homes on east prospect and the new townhomes

You may want to come to the meeting tonight Pampurr

Darrin ✉
Nov '16

Since the developer dropped a bombshell at the tail end of the November meeting that they are unable to secure written agreement to shared parking with CVS, and the entire project and parking plans were based off of this, the board added to the resolutions that in order for phase two to be able to proceed they must produce a written agreement with cross easements for parking at CVS.

It was also confirmed that they DO NOT have enough parking by themselves, contrary to what Jade's Attorney stated on public record at the November meeting.

Big thank you to Jim L for remembering my question from the November meeting, as public comment was not opened back up on the resolutions of this project, despite the no shared parking technically being new testimony.

Darrin ✉
Jan '17

Wow, you mean Jade's Attorney didn't tell the truth. Gee, I'm shocked to hear that, is anybody really surprised.

kb2755 ✉
Jan '17

Disgusting isn't it?...

Pampurr ✉
Jul '17

I heard jade sold the project, can anyone confirm?

Darrin ✉
Jul '17

Bottom line.... it's going to be very high density housing that will create an absolute traffic nightmare. People will begin to avoid Rte 46 and downtown Hackettstown.

Best of luck not getting your cars dented as the fire dept aerial attempts to navigate its way through.

fire251 ✉
Jul '17

There have been no changes to the site plan that was approved in Nov 2016. You’d have to call and ask the developer if and when he plans to actually build

Jim L ✉
May '18

Jim L. People still asking about this project. You keep giving the same answer!!!!!

You are the one with all the answers.

Bernie ✉
May '18

Darrin their approval is for 2 years. So this November they would have to come in and ask for an extension. At That time the planning board will make sure certain things get done Before granting an extension

If you remember the Oct 2016 meeting the owner of the site actually scolded us for not voting on the site plans that night and pushing it back a month telling us how patient he has been while the PB delayed the process. Which our Chairman quickly and correctly pointed out that it was them that was taking forever
So when we approved it at the next meeting we figured they were all ready to go since they wanted the site plan approved the month before. Fast forward 1.5 years and nothing

Jim L ✉
May '18

LOL! 100% Jim...I remember that meeting...they gave the PB crap about needing more time (a month) to think about it....meanwhile the PB and public waited on them for HOW long...years?!?!

Good...renewal is coming up, and it is good to hear the PB is already considering implementing some new rules before granting an extension.

Personally I would like to see the whole site converted to turf for now...(actually that's how I believe the original developers agreement was written)...yet somehow they were able to get approval to just covert next to CVS to turf and leave the back looking like a quarry....not sure how or why that was allowed....I asked once at a meeting but got the political answer.

If it could be converted to turf and opened to the public for the time being that would be great...but I don't see that happening.

They are still actually not done with the environmental cleanup on site, I wonder if the environmental cleanup portion has it's own deadlines.

My guess....we see work on site a few weeks before they come to the meeting ;-)

Darrin ✉
May '18

Now that sounds like a meeting moment.....

I noted above I called Lion's Gate "a 145-unit monstrosity." Not being more two-faced than usual JL, I still think it looks like a pretty good plan with a kinda-ugly swiss mountain chalet of a 145-unit building. Not my style, but PB did good IMO.

On this one, yeah, develop or turf, hopefully with run-off controls. But don't leave the open scar this neighborhood has had to live with for over a year now.

strangerdanger ✉
May '18

The only concern was getting that CVS in ASAP!

Bruce juice
May '18

How did CVS meet their stormwater management obligation?

In the case of phased development, each individual phase must stand on its own; it can't defer stormwater management to a future phase.

ianimal ✉
May '18

the fact that E Stiger and CVS lot has not flooded is pretty good evidence as to how much stormwater management they did as that area would flood all the time

Jim L ✉
May '18

lol thats the term, stupid smart phone couldn't guess what I was trying to type. :)

Jim L ✉
May '18

Townleasi...that's because CVS was built up on a hill...even if the surrounding areas flood...they will never. Also, no provisions for drainage was added to Bergen street. And the pipe that was draining Bergen street to East Stiger was removed and not replaced when they took down the buildings (That's your biggest problem)

As far as East Stiger...way better, no flooding as of yet, but we still have not had a 10 year flood...we have had some serious rains, but nothing like we had a few years back.

Darrin ✉
May '18

Bergen St the way it is now is going away in Phase 2. It will wrap around behind CVS and link up with E Stiger. So that part that floods will be gone. Also Bergen has flooded long before CVS was built. CVS contains all the rain water on their property and the rain that used to come down 46 and Stiger onto their property. While we have not had a 10yr storm we have had tons of hard rain storms without any issue at an intersection that would flood at the drop of a hat. Huge improvement

Jim L ✉
May '18

Jim...Bergen street would only flood when the drain that ran from the side of the building to east stiger clogged...that drain was removed with the addition of CVS (it would have ran directly under their building)

I agree, Huge improvement...but my point is, in my opinion, without the retention pond...we are ducks waiting for a 10y flood....the two improvements were suppose to go hand in hand, and phase 2 was suppose to be right behind CVS...hope everyone learned their lesson on that one.

Darrin ✉
May '18

Darrin,
I am guessing this is a developer versus builder/owner issue, right?

Nonetheless, these things must be in the plan, including timing, to be able to get them done. Sounds like bad plan, bad results on this one, if you think the timing is wrong.

When plans have phases, and the phases are not guaranteed, with schedule, in the plan contract, the planners can anticipate delay for all sorts of reasons. Although on this one, it seems that many builders are beginning to start up again after our nasty little depression or huge freaking recession....you be the judge.

But lesson learned to HL planners and watchers ---- if it ain't in the plan......

strangerdanger ✉
May '18

Looks like the developer hasn't paid his taxes in a while and is in the Town tax sale to the tune of 89k. Shocker, right?

PenwellRd ✉
Nov '18

So if we all chip in a grand..we can stop it (lol)

Billyt
Nov '18

Update? Does anyone have access to the site plans for phase 2 of the project? I would like to see the proposed layout of the buildings, parking lots, and proposed open space.

Buck3 ✉
Dec '18

I would think they still have them in the construction office Buck3, although I am unsure if they are expired by now, either way they should be on file for you to see.

Darrin ✉
Dec '18

When is the construction expected to start?

happiest girl
Jan '19

The foxes are happy.

strangerdanger ✉
Jan '19

I smell a goin outta business sale. Bankruptcy.

New company welcomed to develop in town: Jude LLC.

Imagine if you owed the town $115K.....evicted...

StrangerDanger ✉
Apr '19

amazing that we not that it’s our problem can’t get anyone in this basf building or in the compac building

Drew ✉
Apr '19

Darrin- Is that part of the agenda for Thursday's council meeting? I still see the April 25th agenda posted on the town website. I recall you posting one time you get the agenda emailed to you is that accurate?

Greg ✉
May '19

Great, thanks Darrin.

I need to be on that email list. The town website has been a bit slow to post the last several months. I usually read the minutes from the various meetings and such but they have not been updated since last December. Often the agenda for meetings get posted just the day of or the day prior to the meeting. I understand there is a plan to have the website reworked or managed differently. I learned that while attending a meeting a few months back. I don't know of any new news or developments as I can't catch up and review the council minutes since then. LOL! Catch 22 if one can't make all of the meetings in person. It's a great help and courtesy to have a town website with current information- hopefully soon it will get up to speed.

Greg ✉
May '19

This has been asked before SD and the town did not seem interested in making the information any more available then the have to by law.

Darrin ✉
May '19

Here is a Cliff Notes version of PILOT in NJ.

https://www.archerlaw.com/tax-abatements-utilizing-new-jerseys-pilot-programs/

This is also a very good read on the subject:

https://www.app.com/story/opinion/columnists/2018/05/03/tax-breaks-developers-nj-impact/545778002/

Greg ✉
May '19

I was going to say considering the taxes have not been paid for a year and a half I wonder if the town is considering taking ownership, but I just checked again and it looks like someone paid up for last year

Darrin ✉
May '19

The thing I don’t understand is if the town is looking into a PILOT study, wouldn’t that mean the town is paying for said study? I doubt the town would be paying for a study unless they had some sort of vested interest in the property?

Darrin ✉
May '19

Chillax, he said IF the town..... not gonna get progressive votes with that attitude ;-).

StrangerDanger ✉
May '19

Not gonna get any votes if the paperwork isn’t filled out. First the paperwork, then the campaign. Rinse and repeat until reached desired results.

Ordained
May '19

A do-over? You got to be kidding....

StrangerDanger ✉
May '19

I wish I was. I was a bit surprised to say the least however I am not familiar with the proper, legal protocols in this instance. The facts are a motion was voted on by all present council members. It did not pass. Then a few minuets later a voting member asked for a re-vote. It was explained by the attorney that it could not happen at that time. Now the cynic in me could see how it could pass next vote as if a member who voted no this time changes to a yes and the member who was not present at this meeting votes yes the next vote then voila a motion is passed. Or perhaps the re-vote could produce additional no votes really cementing the motion's demise.

Greg ✉
May '19

Greg, can you fill me in on what this was about. What were the looking to do a PILOT study for? I know it's a feasibility study but what were they trying to see the feasible of?

Darrin ✉
May '19

I would guess that if Darrin does not understand the process that the process is not as transparent as it might be...….just saying.

Did they pay the back taxes yet? How can a study go on if they owe, they owe, off to develop they go......

strangerdanger ✉
May '19

PILOT means no school taxes...and that can't be a good thing for an apartment complex

Bug3
May '19

If the taxes are paid, I can tell you the report will be a success.

Just a guess of course.

strangerdanger ✉
May '19

From the PILOT link


Under the Local Redevelopment and Housing Law, the PILOT program calls for 95 percent of the payments to go the town, and 5 percent to the county. The school district gets nothing. This is in contrast to a typical tax bill where often 50 percent or more of the total goes to the school district.

Bug3
May '19

Town meeting on the project via ZOOM July 28th at 7 pm

Although I cannot seem to find the meeting agenda and the linked documents that are suppose to be on the town website 10 days prior to the meeting according to this paper.

From the sound of this, the developer wants to start ground work without building any structures PRIOR to receiving approval from other agencies.

Hard to say without the supporting documents, but if this is in fact the case the town has been burnt by this in the past, they should decline, especially since this is a environmental impacted site

Darrin ✉
Jul '20

Bernie, that is precisely one (of many) reasons why I do not find it wise to allow them to start ground work without all the required approvals!

Darrin ✉
Jul '20

I noticed that as well, pretty embarrassing coming from a legal department as such.

Guess you get what you pay for....

Darrin ✉
Jul '20

I see they updated the town website and the agenda now exists, but no files are linked pertaining to this site as their legal notice indicates, only Bilby Road Paftinos Site Plan

https://www.hackettstown.net/land-use-board/agenda/land-use-baord-meeting-agenda-1

Does anyone know the extent of the ground work they are looking to do?

Darrin ✉
Jul '20

He's doing it to sell it probably. Figures moving some dirt and some improvements will make it more desirable to a developer.

Wash Boro is getting on him finally for all his BS. From a few months ago planning board minutes about one of his "redevelopments":

"Town Center – extension of time: Attorney Gruenberg sent a letter dated 6/5/2020 to the applicant’s attorney. They have already had 3 extensions and can not request a fourth. The applicant will have to come back before the Board"

He's been stalling for almost a decade now.

He's been moving dirt too where he wants to build a Taco Bell. Dog and Pony show to quiet down the rubes in his mind.

Go look at the Warren County site over the last 6 years. It's amazing any town, bank or contractor wants to do work with him. If there are two dates that are the same, it is for different parcels filed on the same day

Foreclosure Filing- 5/14/20
Tax Sale- 1/6/20
Tax Sale- 1/6/20
construction lien- 12/18/19
Foreclosure Filing- 12/10/18
Foreclosure Filing- 12/10/18
Construction Lien- 10/17/18
Construction Lien-10/18/18
Foreclosure Filing- 3/14/18
Tax Sale- 12/26/17
Tax Sale-12/16/17
Construction Lien-12/12/17
Final Judgment Foreclosure 4/18/17
Foreclosure Filing-6/9/16
Tax Sale- 11/13/15
Tax Sale- 10/24/14

And if the rumor he had a hand in the Ryan Homes 55+ housing development in Mansfield are true, there are even more filings on those.

Cant wait for "towniejim" to magically appear and wonder why I am beating down on someone who has done so much...

penwellRd ✉
Jul '20

The information is available to the public. The meeting is going on as scheduled.

Jim L ✉
Jul '20

Darrin the plans are on the website.

Jim L ✉
Jul '20

Why haven’t people that live next to this property not received this notice? Previously we have received a letter.

pampurr1 ✉
Jul '20

Looks crowded. Lots of notes, but no text that I can find; are they located somewhere else?

I must be missing something but seems like a paucity of parking.

Lots of pavement, concrete, porous or not. Does open space get dumped on the town for development and maintenance, or just maintenance. Is that a tax increase? Is there a pond? I guess the walkway to the neighborhood behind is a nicety or would they rather remain unconnected? I guess there's 30 units or so in the "mixed use, which I take it is development slang for strip mall.

Least they mitigated all the ingress from Main although those poor houses on the tracks will have a circuitous route and a light on Main now.....But only two roads in, instead of three. Still gonna be a pain as people try to enter Main from two roads basically abut of each other. Probably should have to make one or both of them an entrance only.

Looks crowded.

strangerdanger ✉
Jul '20

We received notification before on issues pertaining to Bergen Tool. Why wouldn’t we be notified this time around? I will ask others that live adjacent to the property if they received notices?

pampurr1 ✉
Jul '20

Pam there is a real easy test to see if you should have gotten notice.

https://njparcels.com/

search your address. once you find your address there is a red box on the right hand side that says "notification list". it lists all the addresses 200ft from your property and gives you a map with a dashed line around your house. if Bergen tool is not on the list or inside the dotted line then you are not 200ft from their property. if you don't have to notify them, then they don't have to notify you.

Jim L ✉
Jul '20

Nothing is too constructive here, is it?

Bernie ✉
Jul '20

How is the open space developed, who pays for that. And who pays for maintaining it?

Is there a place to read the footnotes?

I think we have better civil engineering types here, but one man's +1 retention basin can be another's mosquito-ridden boggy swamp. Perhaps a good thing, most certainly demanded by law, but think it really depends on methods (rock lined or grass) and water level (lots, just a bit). For example, the one over by Weiss can get pretty swampy in a wet year and a pretty unsightly mosquito haven.. The one behind Walmart is basically berm-ed out of view, Gosh knows what goes on there.

I take it we are still going for 100 living spaces? Does that put about 30 in the Mixed Used buildings? Gross, IMO.

Seems awfully crowded and tight.

strangerdanger ✉
Jul '20

You are right, they should be able to use "Road A" or whatever it is at that time. Sure would save Stiger Street repairs due to extra trucking and whatever they use, CVS customers will be affected --- one entrance or another.

Yes, it's a traffic nightmare. Poor Bergen Street folk will be snaking around; Road A is right next to CVS entrance, I guess there is only one Road A/CVS access point there, but awfully crowded. Gonna need another light I bet, that's potentially a lot of cars.

Can you tell where the parking is for the mixed use?

strangerdanger ✉
Jul '20

Where would you put another light?.. not enough room between lights on 46

Bug3
Jul '20

The site plan was approved in 2016. Nothing on the site plan is changing. The upcoming public meeting is regarding allowing them to do certain work prior to them getting all of the conditions of the resolution meet. The time to ask questions/suggestions regarding the layout of the site has come and passed. Sadly only Darrin and 1 other person attended those meetings from the public.

Jim L ✉
Jul '20

Jim, do you agree that it would be better to use the main street / CVS access point for construction traffic as opposed to the residential access they have on their plan? This is something we still can push for

Darrin ✉
Jul '20

Understood, well as a owner of a house on that road they plan on using, I would much appreciate it if they would use the route 46 access and feel it is a safer option, much as they did while building CVS.

I will be speaking of this recommendation during the public meeting if the board doesn't beat me to it.

Darrin ✉
Jul '20

Was there a subdivision associated with the overall application or is the CVS operating under a ground lease agreement?

ianimal ✉
Jul '20

ianimal, CVS owes their lot, it was sub divided.

Jim L ✉
Jul '20

@Jim "So where on the plans do you see them asking to use E Stiger for construction trucks?"

Look at the grading plans, follow East Stiger Street into the property....."proposed stabilized construction entrance"

Great to know there is something in the resolution to protect us though!

Ianimal, If i remember correct, both CVS entrances are access easements for both lots, that's why they are offset the way they are.

The board made them use 46 for the CVS, so it was a non-issue then. I would hope they would rather the truck traffic on a slow moving highway as opposed to residential streets, and according to the resolution Jim posted, that looks like the case, yet Jade still made plans to come down the residential street despite this resolution.....

Darrin ✉
Jul '20

That is my concern. But with that said, CVS had to use 46, and was not suppose to come down East Stiger, although they did may times anyways.

I do agree that for THEM it looks like the best route, but that is not fair to the residents on that road when they can use a main access point on a road that is already heavily used by trucks. How about having them provide traffic control in case a truck needs to make a left, I think this would be way safer then allowing them to come down a residential road.

Darrin ✉
Jul '20

I see there are people on the 200 ft notification list that have NOT gotten notice.
Seems to be a legal issue here??

happiest girl
Aug '20

Philliesman Don't hold your breath. This property has been a mess for the last 10 years and counting.

This property only holds dreams - nothing more !!!!!!!

.

Bernie ✉
Aug '20

Well, as Jim L said, can't ask questions so why attend?

strangerdanger ✉
Aug '20

Thanks for the support Drew,

This town is so "upper end" and then they let certain projects lapse and get really nasty looking.

Funny how MONEY plays are part in life.

Bernie ✉
Aug '20

Actually looks nice except for the density. Looks to be as dense as the ones behind Dunkins; nice but too crowded. Mixed use strip mall/apartments face train tracks (yech for apts) and then, weirdly, the townhomes. Wouldn’t want those townhouses. 3-acre park provides nice buffer for many if the existing homes, supposedly townhomes pay for maintenance.

So, imo, nice, but too crowded. This many families on those few acres makes for some low class living. Glad they’re boxed in by the strip mall.

Strangerdanger ✉
Aug '20

Pam my comment is was about phase 2 which was correct. Only Darrin and 1 other person attended those meetings.

Jim L ✉
Aug '20

Again Pam it looks like we are talking about 2 different things. I’m talking about the planning board meetings where the application for phase 2 was discussed. You seem to be talking about town council meetings where they were discussing the ordinance for that lot and the fate of the Bergen tool building.

Jim L ✉
Aug '20

These are luxury? For sardines maybe? How many are second story apartments above a strip mall, next to the tracks and CVS?

Think the townhomes behind Dunkin Donuts. Nice enough but too much density for pleasant living.

Luxury might be another thing altogether. This is how many value homes can we slam together behind a CVS next to the tracks glided by a three acre green buffer zone.

A saving grace is they are tucked away out of plain sight for many.

Strangerdanger ✉
Aug '20

If anyone member of the public that is within 200ft If Bergen tool and therefore should have been noticed did not receive a notice please email me your name and address at

Jimlambo@gmail.com

And I will check with the Land Use clerk and mention it prior to the applicant’s presentation. You should have received notice 10days prior to the meeting which would be by today.

Jim L ✉
Aug '20

"Think the townhomes behind Dunkin Donuts. Nice enough but too much density for pleasant living."

Appearances, SD, appearances. Not the best example for your case, since I pretty much love it here, though if you said Greenview Gardens, I may agree a bit. When I lived there years ago I liked it a lot, but did feel a bit cramped due to neighbor noise. Besides the rare bit of parking lot flooding I've got no complaints and it's much quieter and less crowded than you think. About 2 miles to anything important in town too, work, hospital, Town Hall... . Of course I'd rather have a nice Victorian in the Historic District, but c'est la vie.

Phil D. ✉
Aug '20

Strangerdanger

If you were talking about Greenview, sure, I made your point, but you did say the townhomes, which is Victoria Village, one dead end strip of road with townhomes on it. There are some younger people here, but also us older folks as well, including some with high schoolers. We got them rules in place, dontcha know and it's not noisy, some of us older folks do hang out, either in front (if not too hot or cold) or in the back.

Of course, we seem to have a nice mix O' peeps without the unruliness of some of the other places, but then NO pets allowed - period. (Sucks for me) That means cats too, though some places I was checking about renting said they had a no pets policy, but that apparently only involves everything but cats. Cats are allowed in many places with "no pets" policies, because apparently, they aren't pets. Could have fooled me, but then again, they own people so maybe the cats should live there and their people, not so much;-) Apologies in advance to my friends with cat(s). It was a bit of humor, which most of my cat-owning friends will understand.

I can hear the train horn at about 4:30 AM and the bells of Centenary most of the time. I did my research and indeed, talking about density, I did make your point. If the plan is to make a more packed apartment area for maximum rent income for the property owners, then indeed it likely will become a problem. I would say however that it's not so much the "type" of people attracted, but the fact that they're packed in, parking is at a premium, or construction is cheap, so you're under a constant barrage from your neighbor's "discussions" or drama or things are always breaking down.

Places being built have to have a plan. A good plan, or even a great one needs to be in place in order to both succeed for the property owner, as well as for the tenants and the community at large. No variances for less than minimum required parking, etc. Construction of natural and/or artificial sound barriers both for the residents and the general public should be requirement, not an option. There are designs for maximum benefit for all, rather than just cheap "cookie cutter" apartments that as you say, pack people in like sardines. There obviously needs to be occupancy requirements as well, or you breed even more contempt between neighbors, as well as early breakdown of facilities and/or unsanitary conditions. I say this all in general, not just for this plan in particular.

For this plan, having 3 acres of "open space", especially depending on where it is, (which may make it relatively unusable open space) is less important than relieving crowding, noise, view intrusion, parking crunch, etc. Obviously, having proper drainage is important too, especially considering having "100 year floods" every 20 years (or less). Nothing like living in a swamp or perpetual flood zone or I'd be living back in Coastal NC:-P

Phil D. ✉
Aug '20

Good point and really not debating, but opining.

Good news is that the whole affair is pretty well hidden behind that strip mall. Never thought I would applaud a strip mall :>)

strangerdanger ✉
Aug '20

I haven't seen a change in this property behind CVS since CVS settled in there how many years ago?.

Bernie ✉
Aug '20

Reminder, the land use meeting for this topic is scheduled for tommorow, Tuesday at 7pm. Public will be able to voice their concern/ opinions. Plans are on the town website

Darrin ✉
Aug '20

https://www.hackettstown.net/land-use-board/agenda/land-use-board-meeting-agenda-3

here is the link for the agenda and the agenda has the log on info for the zoom meeting.

Jim L ✉
Aug '20

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Darrin ✉
Aug '20

Plans with more holes then swiss cheese were approved, how, I have no idea.

I must say, I literally couldn't be more disappointed in the decision the board made, with the exception of Jim Lambo who actually genuinely listened to the residents concerns and remembered what we as residents have been put through by this project in the past, as well as how this exact decision for CVS burnt us. Thank you for actually looking out for the residents Jim and being the only one to vote NO.

The board wonders why public doesn't show up, and why people say its a done deal, tonight was living proof of that.

4 residents bordering the property all spoke against allowing the developer to clear cut the property and move a stock pile of dirt closer to main street, and brought up numerous comments and concerns, most of which could not be answered. Every resident who spoke stated they would rather the property stay as is until the developer got more approvals.

No traffic engineer to testify, just a bunch of "i heard" and "he said" yet the board accepted that?

Total embarrassment to our town.

Darrin ✉
Aug '20

Pam,

I did not take notes, only listed questions/concerns that I put on record during the public section. It may be best to get a copy of the meeting to watch/listen to, as all of the remote zoom meetings are recorded.

They are looking to cut down all the trees onsite prior to winter, but really had no formal timelines. They even hinted that they have no current intention of building the town homes (they will be the very last phase, and that their retail plans may be changing....literally nothing in concrete.

They also did not produce the parking agreement with CVS that was contingent of their original plans being approved....yet the board approved them to start work and extend their approval.

Darrin ✉
Aug '20

Last night I tuned into the meeting for a short time.

I have a question: how can they move or rearrange (or start) without the necessary planned plans approved?

Now how long until this happens?

Is this to to appease this issue?

Bernie ✉
Aug '20

"I have a question: how can they move or rearrange (or start) without the necessary planned plans approved?"

Bernie, they have an approved site plan, they've had one for just about 4 years now. They mentioned at the meeting that they may want to change one aspect of the retail building but the overall site layout would remain the same. If they want to make that change then they would have to come back to the LUB for that approval

What they asked for at the meeting was to do the clearing of the lot, grading an putting in the detention pond only prior to getting all their outside agency approvals. However, they gave no time line on when they expect those agency approvals and no time line when they feel they will start the actual construction. So they could clear out all the trees and then leave the lot barren for another x amount of years.

They agreed to put in some landscaping along the exterior as buffers for the neighbors but that would not be nearly the same as the 50' trees that are there now.

I did not see the need to grant this request due to so many open questions and I am disappointed in the board's decision. I thought I made a valid argument to deny they request but others felt that adding the detention pond and clearly of the site was enough of a benefit to the town/residents. Time will tell who was right.

Their final 1-year extension request is coming up in Feb '21. Let's see what kind of progress has been made on that site at that time to determine if the LUB should grant that final 1-year extension.

Jim L ✉
Aug '20

What a ridiculous asinine post by a coward hiding behind a fake name. First of all the LUB has nothing to do with the QC site, it was handled by the zoning board. There is 1 member of the old zoning board that is now on the LUB that was part of the QC application. Second,The zoning and planning boards merged because we were having such difficulties fielding both boards and had to cancel meetings because we couldn’t field a quorum. Third, there are I believe 4 registered Democrats on the LUB so to state we are the Republican Mayor’s Lackys is laughably. And your last comment is so void of reality it’s not worth commenting on. Enjoy your miserable life hiding behind your keyboard

Jim L ✉
Aug '20

Four years has been a long time not to be able to produce the parking agreement that is a requirement for them to start construction....not sure why the board did not stand on this issue....oh that's right everyone but what 2? board members are new to this topic and probably don't even know about the history of the property?

I was also surprised by the lack of questions coming from a select few board members, why don't we have members that are actively involved.....we used to

Darrin ✉
Sep '20

"Buck Hill" is NOT Hackettstown. "This administration" hasn't even commented on the LUB so how does that even figure in?? Are LUB "appointed"? Sounds like not understanding government. Just like knowing who votes and who doesn't unless a tie on the Council.

GC ✉
Sep '20

Land Use Board
Board Members
Name Title
Al Camporini Chairperson
Robert Stead Vice Chairperson
Joseph Bristow Mayor's Designee
Shawn Burke Board Member
Corey Tierney Board Member
John Stout Board Member
Brian Weaver Board Member
Robert Moore Board Member
William Mennen, Esq. Board Attorney
Shannon Drylie Board Clerk
James Lambo Alternate #2
Donald Sherman Alternate #1
Stephen Wolfrum Alternate #4
Paul Sterbenz, P.E. Board Engineer
Dan Bloch, P.P. Board Planner

pampurr1 ✉
Sep '20

Since Mayor Maria is resigning (or already has) and is leaving town, she must have known for some time that she was going to do so, seems like she should have recused herself from any and all matters that are as controversial as the Bergen Tool project.

OldSam
Sep '20

Jim, the mayor has made motion to approve ordinances that directly related to reappropriating what was allowed to be built on the bergen tool site, I was at that council meeting, so were you.

Darrin ✉
Sep '20

Jim, review the minutes from the 10/9/2015 Town Council meeting, as am I

They don't have these posted anymore but you may have them saved, I am OPRA requesting them as I cant find them on my computer but know I have them.

In my notes and as I remember it, the mayor made motion to adopt ORD 2010-08.

Darrin ✉
Sep '20

This is an exact reason why it is so hard for citizens to participate. Like most things in life, knowing the rules, and more important, the language is crucial in order to play the game. Unfortunately, and I am no exception, both are often used as a source of power for folks to get their way.

Lessons for citizens --- if you want to effect change, you have to get there early, often, and learn the terminology, the process, and the rules. I would daresay almost every town has a difference. It takes time and practice to effect change as a citizen; if you expect to turn up one night, just at your time on the agenda, and change the world, they will basically hog tie you with words and rules.

While it's a participative democracy, one time wonders really can't. Don't know how many times I have had great ideas, but really bad understanding of the rules and been basically discounted and ignored.

strangerdanger ✉
Sep '20

Jim, you could be correct, I am still going to review the meeting minutes

but with that being said, when or if the mayor states "I will look for a motion to approve on Ordinance..." certainly seems to sway which way he/or she wants the board to vote.....

Darrin ✉
Sep '20

Now now Jim It's a public forum, people have the right to remain anonymous if they so choose, lets not shame them for posting their opinions/views anonymously.....yet another reason why people don't get involved.......

Darrin ✉
Sep '20

lets not shame them for posting their opinions/views anonymously. Yet another reason why people don’t get involved?

Hmm help me with that logic. Funny cause it’s probably the other way around. People don’t want to volunteer to be on these boards because they don’t want to deal with cowards using fake names to blast them on this site. What so you guys can dish it but can’t take it? So it’s ok to blast the mayor and LUB on here but I’m not allowed to call out the lies and bs?

Jim L ✉
Sep '20

Darrin said in the last meeting there may have been a whisper about a potential change in plan. I was trying to say IF there’s a change, I bet it’s for more density, more commercial and IF the LUB acquiesces, the politicos should be voted out because at that point, looks pretty obvious they just can be bought.

Strangerdanger ✉
Sep '20

Please zoom has actually made it easier. There is a phone call option. Anyone that wanted to join the meeting Just needed A phone. Also it allowed you to join without having to drive all the way back to NJ. You don’t live in town anymore right? So zoom was a benefit to you.

Right to remain anonymous? Really Lol. That’s a joke right?

And yes I have no problem with criticism just like I have no problem calling people out with their bs. Two way road. The difference is I’m not hiding.

Jim L ✉
Sep '20

" what are you attempting to prove or are you just trying to get me to shy away from posting/speaking too by purposely spilling little details of information that are not public knowledge and/or your business/right to spill?"

paranoid much? I wasn't trying to do anything but to point out that the zoom meeting was probably better for you since you didn't have to travel into town to attend it. Right to spill? dude you already posted on HL that you moved, i'm not sharing any private information about you.

http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/819059#t820609

and the drawings used in the meeting were the same as the ones on the town website. They were just in color at the meeting.

Jim L ✉
Sep '20

Creep? Nah. I just have an amazing memory and knew you posted that you moved. Then since I’m a stickler for facts I easily found the post since I knew you mentioned it in either the Bergen or WaWa thread

So apologize accepted.

Jim L ✉
Sep '20

Is this meeting going to be in person or over ZOOM?

Bernie ✉
Oct '20

Is this including the trees that surround the bicycle jump mounds? Fourth Street.

pampurr1 ✉
Oct '20

Darrin, municipal governing bodies do not have the power to unilaterally void approvals granted by land use boards.

However, any site plan approval granted is not indeterminate. The Municipal Land Use Law affords developers protection from zoning changes for a very specific period of time: I believe it is three years for a preliminary approval, two years for final, with the developer able to request two one-year extensions. After that, the previous approvals are pretty much worthless if the municipality wants to block the development through zoning amendments.

ianimal ✉
Oct '20

How can they have a developer's agreement when they have not submitted the necessary approvals and documentation to have the meeting that was supposed to happen last week and didn't?

michelemorp
Oct '20

the developer's agreement is only for Phase 2A of the project, which is the clearing of the site and temporary detention pond.

And in the developer's Agreement is they must have that pre-construction meeting.

Jim L ✉
Oct '20

FYI Jade has asked to be on the Monday, Nov 23rd Town Council Meeting to discuss their project if any residents are interested.

Jim L. ✉
Nov '20

@SD "Like sitting there to hear what they are going to do to us in our best interest now."

Hit that nail RIGHT ON THE HEAD!

Darrin ✉
Nov '20

I agree with you. I'm not sure there is any great benefit for the town in this instance. A PILOT (Payment In Lieu of Taxes) will typically just benefit the developers or private investors. Certainly a long term abatement of 30 years seems unrealistic in this case. Perhaps if the town wanted to get the project moving again a Short Term PILOT of 5 years could be granted. However the annual service charge to the town would need to be substantial based on all of the calculations required to determine the feasibility of such a program. If the site was still blighted and distressed and truly in need redevelopment as it was years ago, then the examination of such a request makes sense. At his point it seems to me that the developer is looking for any help they can get to continue with the project. As it has stalled to an extent already that should be a sign that all is not sunshine and roses with the current financial health or extent of exposure the developer is able or willing to make.

The numbers should guide the decision though. I'm not sure the fiscal benefit to the community is there.

Here is a good article discussing the subject.

https://www.app.com/story/opinion/columnists/2018/05/03/tax-breaks-developers-nj-impact/545778002/

Greg ✉
Nov '20

It can be an awful nice flat piece of land for now. Just look at housing sales and just say no to this.

Strangerdanger ✉
Nov '20

The town needs to be very careful here especially during what the housing experts are calling “the covid exodus”. That property and the units to be built there could be significantly more valuable in the coming year if the exodus from “city life” continues changing the value this whole deal is being based on.

CraftBeerBob ✉
Nov '20

Isn’t there a study that indicates how many students, at what ages, will be entering the schools from this project?

Aren’t all the apartments multiple bedrooms?

Most things in the world are governed by WIFM. You have to imagine this benefits those asking for it. WIFM is the town accepts? WIFM if they don’t? Remember, that 58% covers a budget growing at 3% per year; with a per student cost of $xxx growing at 3% per year, and property values fluctuate up and down.

What happens if the town says no? Is that worst case scenario that bad? Got rid of the building. Did some clean-up. Have a popular CVS. Is anyone dying to have this little park?

I know one of the neighbors says don’t t less, don’t give anymore, for this development.

Strangerdanger ✉
Nov '20

"The real confusing part to me is how is this even an option? "

Darrin in simplest terms it is an option because that is what anyone making a major financial decision should do. Look at all available options, look at the pros and cons of each option, and then make the best decision based on all facts available. I wouldn't read anything into it other than the town is exploring all options available and at the end of the day, the town will choose the option that is in the best interest for the 9800+ residents in town.

"Isn’t there a study that indicates how many students, at what ages, will be entering the schools from this project?"

Yes, that is what the study looks at.

"What happens if the town says no?" - They'll file suit with the state,"

Well, I guess in this day and age anyone can sue for anything but the town won't make any decision based on a threat of a lawsuit.

Jim L. ✉
Nov '20

And, based on the density, location, and design, I would hazard to guess that whatever school-age resident estimates were made, the potential is higher for greater not less than the estimate.

Who paid for the estimate?

strangerdanger ✉
Nov '20

Jim L, my how is this even a option question was meant to be deeper then that, PILOTS in general, how is that a option, nothing to do with this developer.

To be honest, in a nutshell, PILOTs sound like a way for a developer to pay off a town to get to build what they want, sooner then they can afford, and is somehow legal to screw the BOE in the process.

But in the terms of this development, the BOE not getting the % is a major issue, as there is 108 units going in, most of which are multi-bedroom. For the other residents to have to "pick up the tab" if you would, for the additional students for 30 years is a bit mind blowing.

From what I gather, a PILOT would make sense in a office or retail development, I do not understand how it can be applied to a residential development, unless said development was maybe a 55+ comunity or something.

Darrin ✉
Nov '20

Exsqueeze me: we are a society that has decided that education is that important. Therefore, we all chip in. Frankly it’s our best investment IMO.

What kind of society only offers education to those willing to pay? Not a good one. Certainly not the economic engine for the world.

Second: need Jim L on this but IF the developer gets PILOT, I don’t think the renters necessarily get a lower rent.

Strangerdanger ✉
Nov '20

I’m not familiar with the PILOT program, but to me it sounds like a tool that a municipality can use to help to develop a property that it wants developed, but when the project might not be financially feasible for the developer. But, in this case, does the town really care if that land gets developed? From a pure financial perspective it might be best to leave it exactly as it is. They receive $72k/year and it doesn’t cost them a dime. Plus no additional kids in the school system.

FarmerJake ✉
Nov '20

Looks like Bergen Tool PILOT Mayor and Town Council discussion will be Thursday January 14th, meeting starts at 7pm.

Darrin ✉
Jan '21

Jade is not on the agenda:

https://www.hackettstown.net/sites/g/files/vyhlif646/f/uploads/january_14_agenda.pdf

Barnacle Bill
Jan '21

Nice job by the council voting this down. Many good points brought up by residents and Business owners, but ultimately not a "win-win" as the developers tried to claim.

As one resident said, no one forced them to buy that property. Not the town's job to ensure they maximize profit, especially at the expense of the rest of the taxpayers.

Carve 2 roads, build 6 McMansions and a strip mall and be done with it.

John H.
Jan '21

I could see where czig would be for higher density in walking distance. Makes good business sense. Or does it. I vote with my wallet too.

Strangerdanger ✉
Jan '21

FYI Jade is coming back to the Thursday, March 11th Town Council meeting to ask to revisit the PILOT decision for the Bergen Tool site. The Agenda and zoom login info will be on the town's website shortly.

Jim L ✉
Mar '21

Look at what Asbury Township Warren County is going through with their land use Board and former Mayor. Lawsuits all over the place. A no is never a no. Lol.

JR ✉
Mar '21

No matter the offer, I can all but guarantee it won't make up for the loss of school taxes, the burden of which will be spread out to the rest of us. That's the problem with these programs.

Barnacle Bill
Mar '21

Haven't they had MORE than "just one more time"?.

Bernie ✉
Mar '21

Jade requested a delay to a later date make yet another attempt at getting PILOT status for this project. As reported on WRNJ this morning Councilman Lambo had inquired if this should be the last hurrah if you will regarding how many times the council should allow a hearing for the same request. The Mayor stated that since they are property tax payers currently, they should have the opportunity to be heard again.( ironically looking to not pay "taxes"). Councilman Sheldon echoed that sentiment as well. Personally I agree with Jim. If anything I would think after the initial denial the applicant should perhaps have the opportunity to present one more offer in rebuttal but I would think that is enough. I mean they could continue to present over and over if they don't get a satisfactory decision. Simply make your best offer and live with it. Obviously the law will govern the process here. As Darrin has pointed out many times, it appears this developer has a track record of non compliance with prior resolutions. I say buyer beware.

Greg ✉
Mar '21

I would think that if the town did not listen to another proposal that there could be litigation against them for not negotiating in good faith. A Pilot is a negotiation, nothing cut and dried.......Just my thought.

Richie
Mar '21

Eggs aker lee Stymie!

Greg ✉
Mar '21

Yea and no. They got permission to knock down the trees from the land use board but in order to do that they need to enter into a development agreement with the town. But the development agreement is being held up until the pilot gets sorted out.

Jim L ✉
Mar '21

Topic: Land Use Board Meeting
Time: March 23, 2021 07:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

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Darrin ✉
Mar '21

Yes agreed! Great job council!

What I don't understand is how the liability of the foundry sand becomes the town's problem? We warned them during the planning phase, but they accepted that risk and told us it wouldn't be a problem....well.......

The long in the short is that by keeping the foundry sand no developer is interested in this property due to the liability, thus they are having issues finding someone to build it.

And since when did this project go full rental?

Darrin ✉
Mar '21

BB- from what Mr. Rice stated tonight many of the large home building companies like Ryan Homes etc, consider the foundry sand as a liability and apparently will not enter into projects that have this scenario such as this site.

Darrin I was saying just that out loud during the testimony tonight. The developer took a risk and it seems it is now a problem. His problem not the town's. He even stated how the town engineer was very specific not to have it used under any of the town owned portions of the area such as sidewalks and roadways. That should have been a tip off that it was a risk...

Greg ✉
Mar '21

Darrin as far as the site going full rental, it was brought up at council when they first came to us with the PILOT last year. I mentioned that they are trying to switch the townhomes from for sale to rental. Their attorney stated they never committed one way or the other whether they would be rental or for sale. So I read him the part in the Resolution where it clearly stated a homeowners association would be responsible for the 3 acres of open land. Our town attorney stated they would need to go back to LUB to get that change to "property management company". There would be no legal standing for the LUB to deny that change so it would get done. So as much as we would prefer them to be for sale we wouldn't be able to prevent them from changing to rental.

The reason they are changing to rental is as you guys stated above. They can not find a builder that will take on the liability of the foundry sand. If they go rental then they would build them themselves and keep the liability.

Everyone on the council sees the benefit of the project and wants it to be built. Some of us just want them to pay their full share of taxes especially when we know it will bring a lot of kids to our already full schools. Their offer last night was enticing. There was a clear benefit to the town. Unfortunately for the developer, the town is in great financial shape. We are debt-free and have $2mill in capital improvement surplus so we do not have to make deals like this that would screw our BOE, which would then pass the burden on to the residents to pick up the difference. They tried to argue that with the surplus the town would collect, we could decide on our own to give the school more money from our cut. Well great, if we did that then we would lose all the town benefit of the PILOT so the agreement would be useless to the town.

And all due respect to WRNJ, the numbers they reported this morning were inaccurate.

Jim L. ✉
Mar '21

There was nothing regarding % of rentals. They agreed to pay the fee for the10% COAH.

From the resolution:
WHEREAS, the proposed development would include: 108 multi-family residential units (66 townhouse units and 42 apartment units), 15,900 square feet of commercial space, a new municipal roadway to connect Bergen Street with Stiger Street, a new stormwater management basin, and a new 3-acre area of open space to be set aside for recreational and open space activities;

The problem for them it clearly states "Homeowners association" throughout the resolution which they would have needed to change.

"jj.The submission of documents establishing a homeowner's association for the common open space and common property designated within the development in a form satisfactory to the Board Attorney and Board Engineer. The homeowner's association shall be established prior to the issuance of any certificates of occupancy for a townhouse unit in the development."

Jim L. ✉
Mar '21

it was never discussed as rentals or for sale. it was always discussed as apartments and townhouses.

that what they would need to change. It would have to be changed to read the rental property manager is responsible for maintaing the 3 acres of open land

Jim L. ✉
Mar '21

well lucky for you Darrin, I lack no motivation, lol. I read through the 3 public meetings regarding phase 2. I found no mention of what % would be rentals and what would be for sale. just always referred to them as apartments and townhouses.

there was significant testimony regarding the "homeowners association" which of course means the townhouses were intended to be for sale

" Madden asked if there would be any lighting restrictions for the townhouse owners. Selvaggi replied there are no restrictions on residential homes elsewhere in the town. Sterbenz suggested the Home Owner’s Association documents could include any possible lighting limitations."

"Matusewicz asked what would prevent the townhouse owners from screening their decks and making a screen room. Larsen replied all of the restrictions would be in the Home Owner’s Association regulations."

Jim L. ✉
Mar '21

It might just be the COAH % I am confusing along with, as you stated above, they were always portrayed as for sale units.

These guys have been back so many times, and have changed their plans so many times, I can't even keep up anymore!

Thanks for the info Jim, you have been super helpful!

Darrin ✉
Mar '21

They should just remove the foundry sand, while yes, it was stated it is permissible by the governing body, if you cannot get an interested developer because of it, that is saying something right there, and is your problem as the property owner for not doing your research, not the town's issue to cut you a deal that could potentially hurt the town financially so you can build a development that includes what everyone else is considering a liability.

They will be back, I am sure of it

Darrin ✉
Mar '21

Did a google search and there are companies that would be able to take the foundry sand. Here is one...... https://www.ercofusa.com/services/foundry-sand-recycling/

Richie
Mar '21

^
Not our problem!

Darrin ✉
Mar '21

No idea Bug. That's the developer's issue and I'm sure a legit developer researched it even before the project was presented.

Richie
Mar '21

Jade PILOT was approved tonight with no explanation to the public of what they were approving and no public comment was opened prior to approval.

All I know is I heard there will be a tax abatement and the apartments will be 1 bedroom. Additionally the foundry sand is staying. All but 1 council member voted in favor of this so I hope it is in fact a win for the town

Would have been nice to know what they were approving, I saw nothing in the meeting notes explaining the PILOT......

Darrin ✉
May '21

Greg, I am trying to keep open minded and hope that they do come back to actually explain to the public what they are agreeing to, but I am having a very hard time getting over the fact that Jade said themselves that they approached every single developer in the area and nobody wanted to touch the development due to the liability of the foundry sand, at least that was the aspect they mentioned.

Whether we think foundry sand is a big deal or not is a mute point, If every single reputable developer is saying no, isn't that a huge red flag??? So why would the town essentially give these guys, in the form of tax breaks, funding to build something that every other developer said no to??

And secondly why wasen't the towns response to ship out the foundry sand? We warned them that this was their risk in multiple meetings and the way it looks to me, the town is now paying (through tax agreements) for the developers blunder.

Darrin ✉
May '21

Yes Greg, I dont think that is something I would have said on public record if it were me....they basically admitted to knowing people don't like it but being they need housing they will just do it.....doesn't seem like the ethical way to be building and in reality this is why I am upset with our town's willingness to be financially vested to make this happen

Darrin ✉
May '21

Jim,

Couple things

Being the plans are changing will they have to come back before the land use board for a new approval?

"So the Schools are not cut out of their share of the funding." What is the abatement..... How much reduction over the 5 years? If there is a tax break being given the town and schools could be loosing some money, I would be interested in seeing the actual numbers of full tax, vs abatement, vs pilot....I think we need those to be able to educate ourselves on this decision.

"So in theory, with them being 1 bedroom, there will be little to no impact on the school population from those apartments."

1 bedroom apartments could be used for single parents with 1 child, or will there be an ordinance against that?

We are looking at how many 1 bedroom apartments now? You may not know this answer obviously if the developer is going to have to come back with new plans

While YES, the foundry sand as being used is completely EPA permissible, it is obviously enough of a liability that NO other developer wanted anything to do with this project.....that really says a lot. I do not think it is the town's responsibility to cut them a break so that they can do what NO other developer wanted to touch, especially when it is really as simple as removing it. While yes they feel that it can stay, and legally it can stay, that risk was on them and it is unfair to the town for us to cut them financial breaks because of it....the residents suffer so the developer can succeed....it is money out of the town's pocket so the developer can put money in his pocket.

Thank you for the clarification, good to know there will be future meetings and the public can be involved

Darrin ✉
May '21

Most towns are also not in as good of financial standing as our town is.

If we can afford to cut this developer a 5 year break so he can build what no one else would touch we can most certainly afford to give the residents a tax break right?

Darrin ✉
May '21

Sure thing Darrin,

Come to a town council meeting and make a compelling argument on how giving you a tax break will bring, jobs, businesses, and added revenue to Main St.

Jim L. ✉
May '21

The taxes collected during the first five years of the abatement are still more than enough to cover the municipal expenses during those years. The will be no shortfall that the residents have to cover

And luckily we don’t need you to conclude if this was a good deal for the town. That’s why you vote for council to represent the residents in decisions like this. We did our due diligence and looked at numerous reports by an independent third party that ran all the numbers for us and then made the best decision for the town based on the data. If you want to be part of the decision, run for council. Of course you have to be an actual resident of Hackettstown to run

Jim L ✉
May '21

Being that this project was previously approved, I personally think that this is about the best financial agreement that could have been made by the town. As far as the tax abatement goes, all's I can say is that it worked out great for the area across the street where Quick Chek is some years back that was in need of redevelopment also. Kudos to the council for fighting for what is best for the town!

Richie
May '21

What irks me is that the LUB laid out the problems with this land well before the developer invested in it. He was tasked with preserving the Admin Building which he purposely let crumble. He knew full well he was to deal with all the foundry sand on-site. Now he cries at the unfair cost burden, which was his goal from the get-go.

As far as funding, that is a lie, and ultimately his problem, not the town's. There are areas in Newark which for years were untouchable as brownfields that now are being remediated at an astonishing rate and cost, because real estate values have escalated. There is funding out there, But RR is looking for his best deal. Don't buy the sob story - stay strong.

Barnacle Bill
Jun '21

"Getting played is a ugly for our town!"

getting played? Funny from where I'm sitting the town got everything we wanted. Maybe it's not what Darrin wanted, but we represent all 9800 + residents, not just the one who is on HL the most.

Jim L. ✉
Jun '21

ugly look

We got some of what we wanted Jim....to say we got everything we wanted is a ignorant understatement, facts just two messages up, heck the town even wrote it into the books, only to have it ignored and ultimately say "oh well"

Many residents voiced many concerns during the meetings, not sure why this is just boiling down to HL posts....

And....it's not built yet, so we will see where we end up, way too early to even attempt to say we got everything we wanted, you have been doing this long enough that you should know this will not be the last we hear from them....

From where I am sitting this has been the town giving and giving and not getting much in return deal.

Darrin ✉
Jun '21

We = the town.....clearly

Okay, so fact check....

How can you say the town got everything they wanted when in the ORDINANCE for the property the admin building was to remain intact, and it didn't, no steps were taken to even ATTEMPT to, after letting it sit for years the developer comes back and says look how bad of shape this is in! Like it was a surprise..

How can you say the town got everything they wanted when the next plans showed an American Sawmill memorial, since we now couldn't keep the building....and when asked the developer said they did not save any bricks?

How can you say the town got everything they wanted when we are giving a 5 year abatement on townhomes and a 30 year pilot on apartments? Are you saying the town did not WANT that income?

The list goes on and on

A forthright statement would be, this is the best deal we could come up with to try to get this property developed and we feel the town can make it work financially.

To portray we got everything we wanted is non-encompassing of all the past we have with this property

Darrin ✉
Jun '21

What we wanted/Got

1) redevelopment of a major eyesore on Main St
2) Flood issue resolved with no money spent from the town's budget
3) Major retailer anchoring our town's Main st
4) mixed-use of retail and residential that will booster our Main St
5) 3 acres of open space for town residents
6) Townhouses for sale at full market price
7) apartments to have little to no impact on schools
8) a large increase in ratables to the town
9) COAH credit of 10 units towards our Fair Share housing requirements

Jim L. ✉
Jun '21

I applaud your optimism, but you can't list things that have not happened yet and say we got what we want.....

after all, we have been going at this for how many years now....10+

Darrin ✉
Jun '21

Where is the open space? Is it a playground for kids? Or a park? Desperately needed on that side of town.

Seenit
Jun '21

seenit,

Once this site is completed (whenever that may be) there will be 3 acres of open land in the back that is open to the public. Right now there are no plans for a playground, just a walking trail. However, that may change if the rec department is interested in taking over the 3 acres. A few years ago, they were not, but since then, the new rec director has been more open to the idea. But I need to get the site built first before pursuing that again.

I agree a playground with a ball field or hoops is definitely needed on this side of town for residents/kids to walk to.

Jim L. ✉
Jun '21

If the town is interested in taking it over we should be more aware of the capping we were previously allowing of the contamination under it....that will become our problem

Look at CVS.. it was signed off as cleaned and then the next year they found contamination in the ground water underneath the building.

While the open space is great, I personally wouldn't want the town responsible for a previously contaminated site

Darrin ✉
Jun '21

Jim L.,
That sounds wonderful!
The walking trail is a great start and we'll all have to petition Joe for new rec fields when the time is right.

Happiest.... Riverfront is across town. I'm talking about North Main street.

Seenit
Jun '21

What is the plan for the bicycle mounds in the back of the property by Fourth Street?

Pampurr ✉
Jun '21

Richie, yes it certainly does sound better, at a cost of income to the town unfortunately, what the cost will be is yet to be shared....the public has not seen the plans yet

Pampurr, they are cutting down all the trees and that becomes a walking trail about 50 foot off the property line....picture of the plans was posted, but is here too...these were the last approved plans

https://www.hackettstown.net/sites/g/files/vyhlif646/f/uploads/jade_200709_construction_sequencing_plan_1.pdf

Darrin ✉
Jun '21

That's what I was thinking also Jim.

Richie
Jun '21

we get it, you bought a house next to an abanded factory and now hate that something is finally getting built on it.

Jim L. ✉
Jun '21

Seems Jade is on the Town Council meeting agenda this Thursday 12-9-2021

"Motion to amend the Jade Hackettstown Phase 2A Developers agreement"

Not sure the details, it could be something small and meaningless, but you never really know with them......

If anyone has details please let us know, Thank you!

Darrin ✉
Dec '21

100 trucks a day on bergen street will destroy that road

Bug3
Dec '21

ianimal how dare you use facts and logic. Only doom and gloom are allowed on HL.

Jim L. ✉
Dec '21

What is the path going around the "open space" --- it shows it feeds out onto Third Street, and also feeds out going towards Fourth Street. Is it a vehicle road, or a foot path?

happiest girl
Dec '21

Everyone in the area was invited to the pre construction meeting that Darrin attended so yes Bug they were notified if they bothered to attend the meeting. Perhaps Bug you should spend more time wondering what YOUR town is doing. Hmm. Or you only troll Hackettstown things ?

Jim L ✉
Dec '21

This area should a major concern with the curbs coming out as far as they do I. Regards to snow and the difficulty turning the ladder truck down that street if ever needed.

CJ. ✉
Dec '21

Jim L
Maybe I do live in Hackettstown
Perhaps your internet snooping is being fooled by a vpn

Bug3
Dec '21

ianimal

That certainly didn't stop the two I saw behind me on East Ave. on Tuesday around 4:20PM that violated the 4 Ton limit sign, nor did it stop the Tractor Trailer on Monday around 4:30PM that not only drove across the same bridge, but then turned around at the driving range/mini golf course by the farm there and drove right back across it again. Apparently many of these drivers either don't know what they're doing or they're just flagrantly violating the law because the just don't give a flying F. Of course the Washington Twp. cops are usually busy along the Rt. 46 Hackettstown hill, or sitting just past the East Ave./Rt. 46 corner (I guess waiting for red light runners?).

I have no idea where the large dump trucks were going, though curiously they turned from East Ave. onto Rt. 46E, but then made that first U after the road splits in order to come back towards Hackettstown. I would think the best enforcement of the Bergen Street area site would be via several well-placed video recorders that would capture violations in real time, in order to back up what any concerned citizens may report.

Phil D. ✉
Dec '21

Jim he could have moved to Hackettstown due to their frequent power issues in GM.

Lmao

Point Lambo

CJ. ✉
Dec '21

I live in that neighborhood, and was NOT notified or invited Jim!

Voteforchange ✉
Dec '21

Not a fake name or fake news. I will say it again I live in that area and was NEVER notified or invited to ANY zoning mtgs or planning mtgs!

Voteforchange ✉
Dec '21

The meetings are always posted on the town website, town bulletin board, and newspaper as required by law prior to the meeting

https://www.hackettstown.net/

Additionally you can sign up for the meeting agendas to be emailed to you by contacting the town clerk and asking to be added to the email list

Darrin ✉
Dec '21

"We We're NOT notified! Should I say it slower or louder for you?"

no you can stop hiding behind your keyboard trying to act tough and say it to our faces. There is a LUB meeting tomorrow night 7pm Town Hall. There is a public comment section. If you say you live in the area and were not notified of the what 50 public meeting on Bergen Tool then show up tomorrow and state that and prove you live within the Legally required range.

If not then STFU no one cares what you say on HL.



" I'm not a troll, I am a pissed constituent!"

don't care, don't vote for me. I have no patience left for keyboard warriors.

Jim L. ✉
Dec '21

Richie, even if they state what street they supposedly live on, there is no way to prove that is correct. The only way to prove it is to show up to a public meeting and put it on the record.

Jim L. ✉
Dec '21

What does putting on the record do? Nothing. Just like Hackettstown Town Council- nothing! Why is it not possible that I wasn't sent notification, is it not possible for mistakes to happen? Don't you want to know when they do, Mr town council?
Jim- I'm no key board warrior, you sir are a bully and don't worry, I didn't vote for you nor will I ever. And no since Jim the bully goes after everyone, I am not comfortable telling my street. I live within 2 blocks of Bergen, and my street still floods during heavy rain,btw! But you will say I am wrong about that too. Why do you gaslight people?

Voteforchange ✉
Dec '21

Just a FYI, not every meeting requires the 200ft radius be notified, only one in which they add to, or present/change plans...I am sure there is more to it then that, but if they are approving something that was previously approved, like this last meeting I was speaking about, the TC (town council) was approving what the LUB (land use board) already approved....the LUB meeting which occurred months ago was a 200ft notified meeting during which they notified in person the attendance that the topic was headed to the TC, the TC meeting was not, nor did it have to be 200ft notified, it was just posted as required by law

On the other had, every public meeting needs to, and is legally posted to the town website, town bulletin board, and newspaper as required by law prior to the meeting. Agendas can be found on the town website....you just have to stay vigilant in keeping up with them.

Like I stated before, you can sign up with the town clerk to be on the email chain of the town meeting agendas, this is what I have done and it keeps me from ever missing an agenda...trust me, it's a lot of work keeping up with these things

Darrin ✉
Dec '21

Call town hall and ask them to email you a copy of the 2022-02 ordinance.

Richie
Jan '22

That's pretty much what I figured, thank you Jim

Darrin ✉
Jan '22

There should be a major concern with the following statement in the ordinance

"Public access to the open space shall be permitted, subject to the rules established by the homeowner's association"

Essentially with this statement the homeowners association could set fourth a rule that says public can only access the open space with an approved use permit and otherwise it is only for the associations use....this is a dangerous statement!

There is also a lot of talk about parking garages, in particular a two story parking garage. They have also added in coffee and donut shops, INCLUDING restaurants and drive throughs as a permitted use

I do find it interesting how it says over and over that the new construction shall fit in with the surrounding neighborhood, yet it allows for 3 story / 50 foot buildings plus architectural features to be built....what house on any of the surrounding roads is 50 foot tall?

Sounds to me like they are lumping this into main street's features and not the features of the residents of Bergen street and Stiger street that this development is actually surrounding.

Darrin ✉
Feb '22

You got Jim L

Voteforchange ✉
Feb '22

Council Meeting
Thursday, March 10, 2022 - 7:00pm

Public hearing and final adoption, Ordinance 2022-02 an ordinance adopting the redevelopment plan pursuant the local redevelopment and housing law for property located at block 21, lots 18.01 and 18.02

Resolution approving redevelopment agreement with Jade Hackettstown Associates Urban Renewal, LLC., and Hackettstown Crossing Associates, LLC, concerning Block 21, Lots 18.01 and 18.02

Introduction, an ordinance amending the 5-year tax exemption and abatement Block 21, Lot 18.02

Introduction and ordinance approving a Tax Exemption and Execution of financial agreement.

Lots of Bergen Tool property stuff going on at this meeting!

Darrin ✉
Mar '22

A 5 year tax exemption?

Nothard
Mar '22

There have been about 15 public meetings on it so it should be a surprise to anyone that’s been following the site

Jim L ✉
Mar '22

Find out Thursday night 7pm.

Jim L ✉
Mar '22

A 3rd DD, within couple miles of the other two.

Roywhite ✉
Mar '22

I would hope that means they would have to come back in front of the TC or LUB for a publicly (noticed) meeting

Darrin ✉
Mar '22

The proposed DD at Tonys Luncheonette is Mansfield.

Mom of 1
Mar '22

…and theres a DD next to Marshalls 1/2 mile away from Tonys.

Roywhite ✉
Mar '22

FYI, the question should never be why do we need another one, you will not get far with that....it is D&D's responsibility to figure that out, and if they want this location, I would say it's safe to say they feel the business would be successful.

The question we should be asking is if the location is appropriate for this and/or will it cause off site impacts or unsafe conditions.

Darrin ✉
Mar '22

Down the road? Meaning 10 miles away???

Philliesman ✉
Mar '22

A need for another Dunkin' would be to eliminate the excessively long drive thru lines which creates traffic hazards on Mountain Ave.

Route 46
Mar '22

The town is very aware of the pitfalls of the one on Mountain Ave, they have already mentioned it. They also asked that if this is going to be the case, an extensive traffic study needs to be completed.

I will wait to see the plans. As long as there is no possible way traffic could back up onto 46, and it does not affect the surrounding neighborhood (including the residents of Bergen street) I do not see an issue.

Keep in mind, it has not been stated yet, but I am guessing they are going to be asking for 24hr. CVS wanted 24hr but were denied due to the proximity to the residents of East Stiger. Dunkin is a whole different ball game due to the traffic they bring in.

Also, with the way the redevelopment plan is worded, I believe the Dunkin would need to be first floor with apartments on top, not sure how that would work.

Darrin ✉
Mar '22

Council Meeting
Thursday, March 24, 2022 - 7:00pm

Public hearing and final adoption, Ordinance 2022-02 an ordinance adopting the redevelopment plan pursuant the local redevelopment and housing law for property located at block 21, lots 18.01 and 18.02

Resolution approving redevelopment agreement with Jade Hackettstown Associates Urban Renewal, LLC., and Hackettstown Crossing Associates, LLC, concerning Block 21, Lots 18.01 and 18.02

Introduction, an ordinance amending the 5-year tax exemption and abatement Block 21, Lot 18.02

Introduction and ordinance approving a Tax Exemption and Execution of financial agreement.

Darrin ✉
Mar '22

Man it’s hard to watch even more trees going down in this town. Heartbreaking.

Kat ✉
Apr '22

Build baby build

Philliesman ✉
Apr '22

Shady, call the construction dept. I'm sure they can assist you.

Richie
Apr '22

The last approved plans are on file with the construction office and the public can request to see them, I had posted the overview here: http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/758124#t953490 but with the addition of the redevelopment plan these are going to be changing, and the public is yet to see the new plans.

From what they said, the town house section will remain mostly unchanged, although I do not know if that still holds true since the board eliminated the shared parking 20% reduction and their parking did not meet requirement, Jim maybe can help us with info on that one.

Darrin ✉
Apr '22

Jim,

My question holds true with the current info, with the existing townhouse plans, will their previously approved parking plan meet requirement without the 20% reduction?

It was stated that the townhouse plans were not going to be changing, so I figured I would ask, if this is dipping into new business I apologize!

Darrin ✉
Apr '22

Was there any flooding around Cvs or the Bergen area from that last storm?

Babit ✉
Apr '22

Strike one on the construction, Dump truck videoed running a stop sign and driving down residential roads, strictly not permitted. Developer received a warning

As for the flooding you can thank the residents that brought the true extent of the flooding to the engineer's attention during the design phase of CVS, this caused the engineer to request a flood survey be performed and the CVS and East Stiger drainage system was revamped from originally planned. The phase 2 drainage improvements should help the entire tract and surrounding residents even more!

All the tax abetments on last weeks meeting were seemingly rubber stamped, public comment first, immediately approved by the board with no discussion by the town officials.

I found it very odd they did public comment first with no explanation to the public of what they were approving, and no board discussion. Usually the board discusses, then they open it to the public, then the board votes in most any meeting I have been to.

Darrin ✉
Apr '22

I find it amazing that people choose to work or volunteer in public service when they are so very poor at dealing with the public.

Babit ✉
Apr '22

nice try trying to be dramatic. Nothing was rushed. We gave the public the opportunity to speak, ask questions and gave feedback. You all choice not to. Now a week later you want to draw up some drama on this site by saying it was "odd". its' sad. Sorry only you and 2 other people came to the meeting and none of you spoke. Let me explain how all ordinances work since you see confused.

The town introduces an Ordinance at a public meeting. By the time the council introduces an ordinance, the ordinance committee and town attorney have already gone over the drafting of the ordinance. The rest of the council receives all the info and gets to discuss the ordinance at the public meeting. Once all members of the council give their opinion or gets clarification at the town council meeting its voted on to introduce it and hold a public meeting. Then the members of the public have 30 days to review the proposed ordinance. there is a public comment meeting on the ordinance before the final vote. Most ordinance get no public comment, some, like the livestock proposed ordinance, gets a lot of public comment which does effect the council's opinion and caused the ordinance to be rewritten based on public comments or gets the ordinance withdrawn completely. I can name 2 ordinances that were completely withdrawn based on public comments in the last couple of years alone.

you had 30 days to read the ordinance and ask questions. If you were all unprepared, that's on you. We have already drafted the ordinance, read the ordinance, received feedback from our town engineer, town attorney and the 3rd party financial company. We've had a ton of public meetings regarding the site and the PILOT/ Tax Abatement. This ordinance just put everything we discussed at prior public meetings into an ordinance. If you wanted clarification or to ask questions, you had the opportunity to do so.

The only thing that was odd was a subject that gets thousands of comments on this site got zero public comments when you all were given a chance. hmmmm

Jim L ✉
Apr '22

Not to stick up for Jim, but I believe he is correct. I was able to research what the change was as could anyone else, and the way I always remember it was that the public asks any questions first at a public hearing and then on to the council for questions or comments. It has always been that way.......And through my research, the change was to include dwellings, multiple dwellings, and mixed-use structures in the ordinance instead of just commercial structures.

Richie
Apr '22

Richie, I think your looking at something else, this ordinance was strictly the 5 year tax abatement

Babit, I can handle being wrong and I accept when I am, everyone can be wrong at times...it's about correcting or explaining without the unnecessary attitude that makes a professional

Darrin ✉
Apr '22

2022-03 and 2022-04

I believe you are confusing the abstract of the project with actual ordinance changes...both ordinances were a tax abatement ordinance and not a land use change

Regardless, sounds like you are talking about 2022-04 as I do not see what you are speaking about on -03

AN ORDINANCE OF THE TOWN OF HACKETTSTOWN, COUNTY OF WARREN, STATE OF NEW JERSEY, AMENDING CHAPTER 18 (FIVE-YEAR TAX EXEMPTIONS) OF THE TOWN CODE:

https://www.hackettstown.net/home/news/ordinance-town-hackettstown-county-warren-state-new-jersey-amending-chapter-18-five-year

AN ORDINANCE OF THE TOWN OF HACKETTSTOWN, COUNTY OF WARREN, STATE OF NEW JERSEY, AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF A LONG-TERM TAX EXEMPTION AGREEMENT, PURSUANT TO THE LONG-TERM TAX EXEMPTION LAW, N.J.S.A. 40A:20-1 ET SEQ., WITH JADE HACKETTSTOWN ASSOCIATES:

https://www.hackettstown.net/home/news/ordinance-town-hackettstown-county-warren-state-new-jersey-authorizing-execution-long-term

Can you paste here what sections you are referring to? I attached links to the ordinances

Darrin ✉
Apr '22

“finalizing at the fact that all but two of board members saw members of the public outside and took the back door rather then coming out and saying hi….yeah….odd”

And there you go trying to to be dramatic again. First of all most if not all of us go out the back door at every meeting because that is where we park. The 2 that went out the front did so because the back parking lot was packed due to swearing in 2 new cops so they parked across the street. No one was dodging “the public” all 3 of you lol. Now one probably even saw you 3 out there. Give it a rest Darrin. Sorry no one on this site cares enough to attend meetings but don’t try to make things seem shady or dramatic just to try to rile them up. The town passed the ordinances the same way they pass every other ordinance. Nothing odd about it

And as for the public comment section being moved up the beginning of the meeting. It used to always be at the beginning but we moved it to the end due to those dumb zoom meeting we had to do where the public talked over the whole meeting. The mayor announced why he was moving it up to the beginning, because a member of the public had a comment and we wanted the police cheif to be a part of it before he left to attend the event with his new cops. And the mayor even opened up public comment section again at the end because 2 people walked In Late so he gave them the opportunity to speak. Yea real odd. Please you’re grasping at straws here

Jim L ✉
Apr '22

Guys, again, I am not saying the public could not comment!

This whole mess started because the public was surprised the board had nothing to say about the tax abetment and opened it to public with no overview even though there was a redevelopment plan that happened in-between, that's it!

If we were wrong to be surprised, so be it, this doesn't need to spiral out of control....but welcome to HL!

Richie, the verbiage in there is just abstract, the point of the ordinances were a tax abatement because the property owner apparently cannot afford to build to project and pay taxes...actually says it right in the one ordinance

"ii. The construction of the Mixed-Use Project Area will require significant capital investment and is estimated to cost approximately $11,785,384.00. Without relief from the obligation to pay full real estate taxes, the project cannot achieve financial stabilization."

Darrin ✉
Apr '22

Jim, to be VERY clear...the mess I am referring to is the bickering back and forth NOT THE MEETING!!!! LOL!

Sorry, the public felt it was a odd meeting, I stated it, never used the word shady, you did...it is what it is...move on!

Again, there was a big change with the property in question mid financial agreement. The property received a redevelopment plan and it was openly stated that new commercial plans are in the works....sorry that I found it odd to not give the 3 members of the public who were very clearly there for that topic some sort of explanation (if or how) that affected what we discussed months prior when the property did not have a redevelopment plan.

Your trying very hard to push this into something it never was

Darrin ✉
Apr '22

Simple, I was not prepared for the meeting to go that way, I own that, I admit that

When I looked at the ordinances I gathered that these were re-written from what was previously discussed being the property was now under a redevelopment plan and that redevelopment plan meant changes to what was previously discussed with the tax abatement.

I was caught off guard when the public was called first with no explanation to what I incorrectly though and did not react fast enough, again, own and admit it

Quite honestly I was also baffled by the member of the public who spoke about the taxi issue in town, that was a very interesting issue!

Darrin ✉
Apr '22

ok so let me try to clear it up because you still seem very confused.

The redevelopment plan and the tax abatement and PILOT ordinances are all part of the process to get the tax relief.

In order to qualify for a PILOT or Tax Abatement, a few things need to be done

1) The site needs to be deemed an "Area in Need of Redevelopment" by the town, which was done years ago when it was first purchased.
2) You need a Redevepolment Agreement- which was done last month
3) You need ordinances for the PILOT and/or Abatement with a Financial Agreement- which was done last week

The fact that in the Redevelopment Agreement, the site plan is going to change a little does not affect the premise of the PILOT/Abatement. The Town came to an agreement last year to allow for a PILOT on the apartments and Abatement on the Townhouses. We just negotiated the terms of those agreements and finalized them in the ordinances. The fact that they want to make minor changes to the site plan doesn't affect that so last month's meeting about the redevelopment agreement didn't change anything that would be in the 2 ordinances we passed last week. It's just part of the process to get the whole site built.

Now they have to go back to the LUB to get their site plan changes approved.

Jim L. ✉
Apr '22

According to the State of NJ DEP Data Miner, Bergen Tool and CVS properties are active sites with confirmed contamination. What is being done to remediate the property? Huge trees are being pulled up by the roots exposing dirt and also dust into the air we breathe.

pampurr ✉
Apr '22

Adverse possession - Also referred to "continuous trespassers' rights," the legal theory of adverse possession allows someone who has publicly inhabited and improved an otherwise neglected parcel of property to gain title after a certain amount of time has passed.

This will get interesting for sure

Darrin ✉
Apr '22

Interesting……hmmmmm

pampurr ✉
Apr '22

I've asked around and the majority of residents point fingers to "one" that feels self entitled and above all others. It'll be interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks when that "one" finds out they are a nobody against a major developer. The pompous arrogance will likely catch up!!!

Hmmmmm ✉
Apr '22

I own a large chunk of property elsewhere and for this very reason I do my due diligence to walk my property from time to time with a GPS and notify my neighbors of any encroachments and follow up to make sure it is dealt with. I also respect my neighbors and if there is encroachments allow them the chance to move their items, be it plantings, buildings, fences, or other items. I find that respect to one another goes a long way and I have never had an issue where someone refused to move (thankfully)

Part of this property was usable by the town and contained a ball field years ago, not so sure how set in stone the property lines were back then. I also have found some of the town mapping to be incorrect. For instance, my Hackettstown property is still shown to have incorrect property lines on town maps. Following my title search back, the property lines on my property were changed back in the 70s, yet the town maps were never updated.

While I am not sure of the specifics in this case, the property was vacant for many years, my question is: upon purchase of the property did the new owner do their due diligence and notify neighbors of encroachments after their survey, or are we just getting to this now being we finally want to build?

Darrin ✉
Apr '22

I just think as a homeowner you should exercise due diligence and have a survey with corner stakes performed before any major work and abide by it..... not think "oh they'll never touch that lot, let me grab a few extra feet for myself"

Karma ✉
Apr '22

I keep looking at this space, thinking about all the stores and residences, then the space and I just shake my head, sigh, gonna get real crowded in there.....Let's bring Mountain Ave to the West side of town, sigh.

RE: land grabs. As a yout (nj style youth), in MD, Dad wanted to put in a fence, do it right, got a survey and found that the developer did a piss poor job. Two contingent neighbors, one where the fence would split his new pine trees, the other would lose about 17 inches of his driveways T that he parked on. Dad offered a time period for N1 to feel free to move the tree, and N2 to buy the land as the prevailing price, miniscule given 17 inches by width of a plot. N1 did nothing, N2 got vocal in disagreement.

After the time period, drill fence poles we must and right through the pines and right through the driveway. Amazingly, the 17 inches of pavement made a perfect spot for our woodpile to keep it dry and let the wood crap run down the driveway, a sign Dad was a bit miffed.

Babit ✉
May '22

If the land is contaminated, why wasn’t the EPA notified? I see mounds of dirt butting right up to people’s property.

emerald
May '22

https://www.nj.gov/dep/srp/srra/lsrp/lsrp_program_overview.pdf

Jim L ✉
May '22

So sorry Steve.
Following the money can also be equated in the town chasing tax rateables, environmental and quality of life issues be damned.
Tainted soil aside, the density of this project is going to cause traffic nightmares in Hackettstown.
That sir, is a quality of life issue.

Stymie ✉
May '22

Here is what looks like a list of stores for the bergen site ( download the marketing brochure)

https://jefferyrealty.com/property/hackettstown-crossing/

Bug3
Nov '22

Umm bug3 that link didn’t list any stores coming to the Bergen site other than Dunkin.

Jim L ✉
Nov '22

@ Jim L , if you click on the top picture, it shows it's 1/6 pictures. Scroll across there is a picture of a preliminary sign with the names of about 5or 6 stores. It might be just an example of what the sign could look like???.

Dadof3
Nov '22

If you think the DUNKIN’ DONUTS creates traffic problems on Mountain Avenue, wait until this project is up and running.
Every day is gonna be a “Grid Lock Warning” day in Hackettstown.
Massive failure by the Town Council and Planning Board.
(and the tainted soil remains)

Stymie ✉
Nov '22

This just adds a whole new level of ugly to the town. Bad enough it looks like a patchwork of bad ideas cobbled together by clueless power hungry individuals.

Some towns look as though they had a clear vision. Ours looks disjointed and sad.

Steve ✉
Nov '22

Jim L
They have real businesses on that sign..that includes CVS and Dunkin...it would be really really really really stupid for an ad to use the name of a real business on a rendering of a sign on a real-estate ad without permission..but this is Hackettstown..so who really knows

Bug3
Nov '22

Mike's bikes is a west coast only chain and the other names like Karen's flowers are obviously fake filler

Illo
Nov '22