No more "Free" rescue squad
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/express-times/index.ssf/2011/08/hackettstown_rescue_squad_bill.html I understand the dilemma but wish the residents had a a say in it first. (because Hackettstown Taxpayers bought the Rigs)
BradDid I read it correctly to state that only people with insurance will be billed; does that mean the resident with insurance will be billed the balance of what insurance doesn't pay? And those without insurance will pay nothing? I'm all for billing insurance, but I hope it doesn't mean that person will have to pay the balance after insurance.
tripsy That's what I'm not sure about acl76, that's how it's reading to me, but I could be wrong.
I read it that way too --- those with insurance, they'll be the insurance companies, they just better not come after me for the co-pay!!
Welcome to the big city folks --- but then again, maybe we'll be able to pay the volunteers for their much appreciated time serving our community.
trekster3 I believe what it means, is that if you have insurance that pays towards ambulance fees, they want to collect that money. So they will bill them. You will pay nothing whether you are insured or not. They want to collect from insurance companies, benefits that people are entitled to thru the payment of their premiums.
EXAMPLE: You have no insurance:There is no bill. You have insurance that pays $300 for an ambulance ride: they will bill your insurance company to collect the $300. You get no bill. The end.
That should be the way it works, I hope.
MCZ WOW!!
They may be surprised when they find out not many people have health insurance. Wonder how long it will ake before the insurance companies file suit?
Christine I used to be on First Aid squad in Bergen county, if they were to start charging for services I would have left the squad. I won't be surprised if they will be forced to have a paid company take over for them!
Mommyof3 Great so now I'm paying for their constant re-alerts!!
Allamuchy Green had to cover for them again yesterday!
Two weeks ago my insurance co was billed by Hackettstown First Aid
for their services provided 6 months earlier.
Billed almost $700 and was paid $650.
MikeL Good for Mr. Sheldon! I want to know why the "powers that be" with the squad have not let the public know that they were beginning to bill? At least Mr. Sheldon let the public know! Also billing for a service they supplied 6 months ago?? How can that be?? Why should my taxes go to help the squad now they are billing me for the services they render? Isn't that like "double dipping"?? What will happen in the future if the squad finds out they can't sustain themselves with only billing those with insurance? Will they then go after individuals for payment?? I would hope not but, you never know!!
I am only getting started with this one
But I will Instruct My insurance company to refuse any Billing from HRS. as of to day.
HRS you want to bill 450.oo Dollars for a call . if those rigs of yours burn 450.dollars worth of fuel to get a cross town they need a tune up and if one sheet is used wash it dont toss it
may be we need to ge a group to gether and pickit your building . or maybe the town should revoke your charter , remove the squads they payed for turn them over to the fire co and let them run the squad /
you have lost life long members over this issue
when ever i call the squad to our house i send them a 100.oo check for there service to off set there cost in fuel and supplys . and i send more if i have it .
450. dollars is nuts you people are not thinking of the people of hackettstown
Caged Animal Watch out Hackettstown Fire Dept every call you ask for the Squad to stand by will cost you 450.oo Dollars .
And if you bill it people cant write it off .
I know I am wrong but when you Voleenter to be on the squad you should pay for your training and uniform and more.
I never see the squad out with a coin toss or bucket colection ever . why?
why do I hear you turn down people who want to voleenter ?
I have friends and family in Htown and i speak for them .
Caged Animal, where's the $450 amount coming from ?
My insurance co was billed $625 for BLS - Emergency and $60 for Ground Mileage.
This note was included on my EOB.
NOTES:0001 - We made a payment to a health care provider you used. This provider is not part of our network. (Thismeans we do not have a contract with the provider.) Because we are treating these services under yourplan as if you got your care from a network provider, you do not owe the provider anything except anycopayment, coinsurance or deductible that applies. You do not have to make any other payments to theprovider. We believe our payment to the provider was fair. The provider may not agree. If thisprovider bills you any additional amount above the amount you are responsible for, send the bill to usat the address on your member ID card. Be sure your member ID number is on the bill. Make sure toinclude a copy of this explanation of benefits when you send the bill to us. [PNJ]
The ambulances that the town bought should not be used to bill the people who bought them!! You are right they should be turned over to the fire company to use!! How about the big truck, who bought that?? I bet the fire company could use that!!
As I said earlier, the squad should have notified the public. Thank you, Mr. Sheldon for letting us know!! It is sad to see that a long time member will no longer be involved! How many others have left or are leaving?? I do applaud him for standing his ground!!
Wow
looks like this will be the end of all H'town Sports events . wounder how much they will charge the town / why cause you can only use HRS for sports events in town . even if you can get it free from other Squads sounds like a rackit to me
Yes, I read that story. I also checked my Explanation of Benefits from 2 weeks ago and the Hackettstown First Aid billed a total of $685.00 for services provided last February.
The article which is dated today also states that "Hackettstown First Aid & Rescue Squad's plan to begin charging area residents for services rendered". Apparently the amount in the story is wrong and the plan to begin includes going back as far as the insurance company will allow claims to be filed.
Not sure if Hackettstown does this, but most rigs are left running while they go inside to get the patient and when dropping off. It is complete waste that they do this! I remember my captain used to yell at us when we turned it off! We had enough people that we were able to turn the rig off and send someone outside to start it back up so it was running as we got the patient loaded on!
Really think about it, most of the time when someone calls 911 the first aid squad is there at least 10 minutes examining the patients and if the paramediacs are called it is even longer! Of course if it is life or death they move faster!
diggity 
Philliesman Let's not jump the gun until we all know for sure what the charges will be. Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!!
I dont like the fact that nothing was brought to the community of we need help. It was just decided to do this; What about the service provided by Hackettstown Hospital, they now cover MT Olive during the day and stay volunteer at night. I am sure that if they asked, the hospital would come and do the service instead of listening to second and third re-alerts. The community at large should have a service but we should decide to gives that service. According to the article a family tradition in the squad is broken over this, makes you wonder was it a back door deal so that some would get jobs. What about fire dept response? are they going to bill when they come out for that? what about accidents?
After all most of the rigs and rescue truck are owned by the Town of Hackettstown. So as a tax payer we pay for the rig now we have to pay for someone to bring it to us as well in our time of need. If thats the case let the fire dept take care of the rescue truck and let the squad handle the rest.
Just my opinion
townie75 Are you insinuating my insurance co wasn't billed$ 685.00 ?
I'll show a copy if you require proof!
as children we feared when the Rescue Squad came up our street...that meant someone needed help badly...we went to Dr Stanowicz...when we suffered an injury back then...I believe that at one time both the Elks lodge...and the American Legion had a type of ambulance service...I remember that there were 5 original founders of the Hackettstown Rescue squad...Tony Frontera...was one as well as Tony Meeker... who has the names of the rest...they had a huge GMC...rescue truck from the early 1950s... heres a picture of the old rescue truck... as well as Cadillac ambulances
oldman The HRMC ambulance that is covers Mt Olive, Bills patients
The Mansfield Ambulance that is paid and bills has their ambulances owned by the town and are paid with by taxes.
What was left out of the artical is that the Hackettstown Rescue Squad will also have a paid crew during the day. They are in the process of hiring now.
What Art Sheldon fail to mention in the artical was that he said why not let the Hospital ambulance take the calls during the day. Well They also bill.
And yes they will be Billing every patient. However they will be using a soft blling practice. Excepting what the insurance pays and not going after the patient for the rest. So if you don't have insurance you will be billed and you can send money or not. They will not come after you and not send you to collecetions.
CJ. your right why did the squad not come to the towns people and say we need Help .
I wounder if the town fathers are strong enough to put the squard in their place and say hey you will not charge
And someone also brought up about the fire department billing. But the town fines people for false alarms created by Automatic Fire Alarms.
http://www.hackettstown.net/doc/chapter-16-alarm-devices-and-false.doc
Well they are not but there are some departments that do. If you get into an accident and are cut out with the jaws of life or they put down speedy dry to clean up oil or gas, they will bill your car insurance. Also if some departments that use the CAFS (Compressed Air Foam System) will bill your home owners insurance.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/fire-department-bills-basic-services-horrify-residents-insurance/story?id=9736696
Some fire departments down south have a member ship drive if you are a member and have a fire they will responce and put it out. If you are not a member they will respond but not put it out. Only protect a neighbors house if they are a member.
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local/Firefighters-watch-as-home-burns-to-the-ground-104052668.html
Too bad, it was not Art Sheldon who spoke to the paper. He is no longer answering calls due to this. Also, saw no mention of the hospital in the article. I see you are saying that they are going to bill every patient, not only those with insurance. Interesting, you also mention that if a person does not have insurance, they may either send money or not. I bet you are hoping that they do send money anyway. Some person may not understand and still try to pay even though they have nothing!! How terrible! Shame on the squad!
Caged, they can't tell them they can't bill they can just tell them they will not give them money anymore, take the ambulances (2) that they do own back or have someone else do it. And you know if someone else comes in to do it. They will most likely bill. Someone will pay somewhere weather it be through taxes at the contract signing or through billing.
Oh and if you guys think that is alot of money the MICU bills $3,000 for their services and $20 a mile.
Positive,
Billing people for sevices and collecting tax money as well is done just about everywhere else in this country. NJ is just now coming into it. Attend EMS conferances and see. NJ rescue squads had been putting this off for as long they could.
Evenitally the cycle goes as this.
All volunteer supported by donations and tax contributions.
All volunteer billing patients, collecting donations (now membership subsriptions to cover costs not covered by insurance) and tax contributions.
Paid staff during the day and volunteer at night, bills patients, membership subscriptions and tax contributions
All Paid (Volunteers can't coer calls at night anymore), bills patients, membership subscriptions and tax contributions
All Paid, bills patients, membership subscriptions no tax contributions (towns don't have the money)
All Paid but merged with another agancy because costs are to high and bills patients, and send to collections to collect the balance.
Option 1: Have the Hackettstown Rescue Squad bill your insurance company, and get a donation from the town (taxpayers) of about $45,000.00, and have the town (taxpayers) pay for numerous squad rigs..... Or
Option 2: Use the Hackettstown Regional Medical Centers Squad who also would bill your insurance company, and that's it. No other town money paid to them.
Option 2 seems like the way to go to me.
CJ- you sound like you are a member in favor of this. I understand the need to do it, what I do not understand is why you are saying all will be billed when the article said that only those with insurance will be billed and then you go on to say that those without insurance can send money if they want to. There are a lot of mixed messages here!
That really is not fair, they should have asked for help or had an open meeting. The problem with billing the insurance company is that at the end of the day it will cost the person money. For example, the cost is going to increase the total claims by x% which can be passed on to the person with higher contributions.
ERM Way to go "snapper"! Why should the town taxpayers contribute when there is a service already established that can do what the squad is going to do? If the hospital takes over then we save some tax money.
They did this behind everyone's backs! I will not as a taxpayer pay for a service that was up until last week all volunteer, they are billing 24/7 as i understand it. Last night around 6:30 or so Allamuchy Green had to cover Htown on an EMS call,and then was dispatched again around 10:30 along with HRS. Give the fire dept the recue truck cause we all know they run those tools anyway 90% of the time, shut down the squad and turn over EMS care to Hackettstown Regional.
Tripsy,
You. I posted the charges sent to my insurance co. Then you post don't believe anything you see or hear.
Seems to me you're saying I'm a liar.
better
let the town put HRS out of busness and the town take over by haveing fire and resque in one house . all the town needs to do is file with the 911 center that HRS is no longe to rspond to Hackettstown call s
How is doing the billing for Hackettstown Rescue Squad? Would like to know
Hackettstown NJ 12 Are you sure your fire department is not charging as well? I know where I live in Sussex County my local fire department bills insurance companies when they respond to accidents (not sure about fires).
I personally don't see what the problem is with this charge. I don't think they enacted this fee so someone can start pocketing money. I think it was started because they don't have enough money to operate. If I need their services I'd rather they bill my insurance company rather than bump my property taxes up to survive.
M & K Caged
that has happens but you will see people rather fight fires then take EMS calls. Most of the departments that take over EMS is usually a paid fire based system and bills and uses it to maintain the amount of guys they have insted of dropping staffing.
most volunteer fire departments that take over EMS is because someone didn't like someone else from the EMS department and ends up not manning every call. Then after 6 months someone else takes it over.
The real question is how much is the billing agency making? I bet it's more than $100 per call and most likely a precentage of bill.
I just got a bill for $650 for over a year ago. What is really funny to me is that I told them I didn't want to go in he ambulance if I was going to be charged. They assured me it was free. That was the only reason I agreed to get in. Is it legal for them to charge after they told me it was free, and it was over a year ago? How dishonest.
jane doe Revenue Guard, based in Morganville, N.J., is handling the billing. as stated in the new link
I think people need to see what is happening in the Eastern end of the State. Lets look at Bergen County. The Hospitals are doing EMS for many of the Towns they bill the Insurance companies then bill the balance due to the patient. If you do not pay they go after your house
or what ever the can. Several towns have gotten rid of the Volunteers now they are getting flack from the tax payers. It is lowest bidder and then the Hospital that is providing the service tries to convince you to go to there facility which may not be the closest or where you want to go. The Hospitals including Hackettstown Hospital will go after you and your house if you do not pay.As I see the article the HRS bills the Insurance companies and if you do not have insurance you do not have to pay. Now here is the Biggie by law they have to send you a bill even though they are only taking what the insurance companies are giving them. Also the town has not given any more money to the HRS or FD in the last 5 years. They have had no increase in budget from the town. The HRS has been sending out several times a year fund Raising requests. They have been asking for money but we as citizens have not from what is being said increased what we donate to them. From what I hear the fund raising is flat or less in the last few years. If going from one fund raising request letter a year to three
is not telling us as towns people that they are in need of money than what is? From what I am seeing expenses have gone up income is down and the town has not been replacing there equipment. Go to a town council meeting. The town until last year had not given the HRS a new Ambulance in 10 years. Yes 10 years! The last rig the town paid for about 1/3 or less of it and the HRS got the rest. So this town does not do it part to give the HRS equipment but they have given it to the FD though not as much as either wanted but FD has got more. Go to a town council meeting read the minutes you will see. I think this was hard on HRS. Lets here from the officers of the Squad and hear there side of this. We are judging them before we hear there side.
Concerned Person MikeL-I wasn't saying it to you specifically, just in general for people not to get too upset by what they are reading...one article that's not very specific with it's details. They should find out for themselves before jumping to conclusions. That's what I was saying.
I believe the EMS training requirements are pretty demanding and expensive.
It may not be something the HFD members want to get involved with or can support.
My questions is... if Scott Sheldon is on town council and is related to members on the HRS (who left because of this new billing) why didnt he bring up at a town council meeting that they were going to bill? I know some people will say well maybe he didnt know but thats BULL cause if you have family involved in something you know whats going on. I think more people are to blame then just HRS. If there was one elected official that knew, you wonder how many more people also knew and didnt say anyhting to the residents. why is he bringing this up to the newspaper NOW and NOT before? I will remember who NOT to vote for.
o no I don't believe it is all about the squad charging but, also about the way it is being handled by them. It appears it was done "behind closed doors" and not "on the level".
tripsy,
Ok, just wondering.
Now 2 of us (jane doe & myself) have been billed approx $650.00 for this service.
Anyone else ?
Has anyone heard if the Rescue Squad has purchased the old bank across the street from them? I heard they were interested and heard that they applied for a loan....Don't know if this rumor is true or not, so don't crucify me if it isn't!!
I too, heard the same rumor about the squad purchasing the bank across the street. Are they going paid to sustain themselves or to purchase this?? I had been at town council meetings when the HRS chief was questioned to see if there was any news from the squad and he said nothing new to bring up! Can't blame elected officials when the chief or anyone else never came before them with the information!! It should have been up to the squad to disseminate the information needed as they are the ones charging!!
@Concerned Person
Thank you very informitive
you know i can see chargeing for supplys used to relace the supplys used and off set for fuel but to charge above that is turning it in to a money makeing operation
and we going in to billing 450. for a run is nuts
positive: why didnt the chief say anything is a valid question but if an elected official (Scott Sheldon) knew what was going on, he should have said something and not wait for the chief. Residents elected him to look out for the residents of hackettstown and i guess he doesnt care if he kept it a secret too.
Concerned Person,
I understand the dilemma but, if the rumor is true and they are trying to purchase the bank across the street then what are they charging for??
As a longtime member of HRS, I feel it is time for all the misinformation generated by Councilman Sheldon to stop once and for all. HRS approached our liaisons in late 2008 asking for ways to increase municipal funding to the organization due to increased expenses and a large reduction in donations. Three ideas were proposed:
1. An increase in the stipend from the town. (We were and currently are still at our 2004 funding level)
2. Assess each residential unit in town $20/yr and each business a prorated amount based on the number of employees
3. Third party billing. This was our last resort and one we DID NOT want to pursue.
At the end of the meeting we were told options 1 and 2 were not feasible and that we should look into option 3. At the same meeting we also requested that council pass a resolution naming HRS the primary EMS provider in town due to other area organizations making overtures to handle calls in Hackettstown. The town council passed a resolution in January of 2009 naming us primary because we had been providing service since 1951 and so that in the event we deemed it necessary to institute insurance billing we had their blessing to do so. We pursued the application of a license from NJOEMS which we have held since September of 2009. This license grants us permission from the State of New Jersey to operate as a BLS provider and to bill for service. In mid-2010, we were fortunate enough to receive a federal grant to replace our oldest ambulance which was 21 years old. This is a much needed asset to us and has allowed our other units which are 17 and 12 years old a little downtime, however maintenance costs on the older ambulance continue to escalate. Guess what’s going on with donations?
As time progressed, our expenses have continued to increase while donations have steadily decreased. Our last fund drive had less than a 20% return rate. We approached our liaisons earlier this year after several calls went to mutual aid during weekday hours. We sought their input on instituting a cost recovery program which would enable us to hire per-diem staff to handle calls when the majority of our members are at work. As of today, we have a crew in the building three days a week and our goal is to have 5 day coverage by the end of the year. The downside of the daytime coverage is the need to institute our cost recovery program. Our liaisons and the mayor are fully aware of our decision.
The idea of billing for EMS is relatively new to New Jersey but is standard throughout the rest of the U.S.A. It has become very popular in our area over the past seven years. While we had some skepticism when some of the local EMS organizations went this route, the system is working.
To find out more about our cost recovery program please go to our website www.78rescue.org Maybe now the record has been set straight and the senseless speculation will stop.
HRSmember As a longtime member of HRS, I feel it is time for all the misinformation generated by Councilman Sheldon to stop once and for all. HRS approached our liaisons in late 2008 asking for ways to increase municipal funding to the organization due to increased expenses and a large reduction in donations. Three ideas were proposed:
1. An increase in the stipend from the town. (We were and currently are still at our 2004 funding level)
2. Assess each residential unit in town $20/yr and each business a prorated amount based on the number of employees
3. Third party billing. This was our last resort and one we DID NOT want to pursue.
At the end of the meeting we were told options 1 and 2 were not feasible and that we should look into option 3. At the same meeting we also requested that council pass a resolution naming HRS the primary EMS provider in town due to other area organizations making overtures to handle calls in Hackettstown. The town council passed a resolution in January of 2009 naming us primary because we had been providing service since 1951 and so that in the event we deemed it necessary to institute insurance billing we had their blessing to do so. We pursued the application of a license from NJOEMS which we have held since September of 2009. This license grants us permission from the State of New Jersey to operate as a BLS provider and to bill for service. In mid-2010, we were fortunate enough to receive a federal grant to replace our oldest ambulance which was 21 years old. This is a much needed asset to us and has allowed our other units which are 17 and 12 years old a little downtime, however maintenance costs on the older ambulance continue to escalate. Guess what’s going on with donations?
As time progressed, our expenses have continued to increase while donations have steadily decreased. Our last fund drive had less than a 20% return rate. We approached our liaisons earlier this year after several calls went to mutual aid during weekday hours. We sought their input on instituting a cost recovery program which would enable us to hire per-diem staff to handle calls when the majority of our members are at work. As of today, we have a crew in the building three days a week and our goal is to have 5 day coverage by the end of the year. The downside of the daytime coverage is the need to institute our cost recovery program. Our liaisons and the mayor are fully aware of our decision.
The idea of billing for EMS is relatively new to New Jersey but is standard throughout the rest of the U.S.A. It has become very popular in our area over the past seven years. While we had some skepticism when some of the local EMS organizations went this route, the system is working.
To find out more about our cost recovery program please go to our website www.78rescue.org Maybe now the record has been set straight and the senseless speculation will stop.
Why not go to the next town council meeting and ask Mr Sheldon if he knew? As for the Town purchasing there Ambulances up til this last one the town had not purchased one in over ten years. The Squad had come up with over 2/3s of the money and the town the rest. The town has been crying poverty every time the Squad has asked for capital money to replace some thing in the last 6 plus years. The Fire Department has done better with the town. They both need our support and help these are tough times for all of us.
whats funny is how no one has asked about how there doing there paid staffing. i will throw it out there its only 3 days a week but still charging 24 hrs a day. WHAT A JOKE. Town should get ride of them let HCH do it save us taxpayers some money
I think the Squad needs the room I do not think they are billing just to get that building. They are good people and have saved many lives in this town. There are two sides to any story and yes we have not been listening to there requests for funds. Two to three fund raisers requests a year was not enough? Is that not telling us they need funds in a nicer way? Lets cut them some slack and here there side. Go to the next town council meeting and ask them why they have not stepped up to the plate also. It is not all on the squad.
Kinda funny the Squad announces they are going to charge for services....drum roll please...............I received a Squad donation request in the mail. ;p What are they thinking?
suzique Concerned person, I think that is because the Squad is somewhat independent and owns some of their equipment. Check it out. The FD does not. If I am not mistaken, they own their building and a piece across the street already, which the town does NOT own, and now wants to buy another building? They are quasi on their own already. Check out tax records online if you care to research my info.
How about this?? The squad is charging now and today I received a fund drive form! What are they crazy??!! No fund drive donations since we will be paying now!! Also, just heard someone got a bill for a service rendered a year ago!!
you know that insurance companys can refuse to pay for services if not billed with in 90 days of date of service read your polices billing rules .
I am hearing from a very good source, that they are going to back-bill insurance for services dating back to January 2011.
Here is a thought, if the squad JUST started billing for services how can they bill for service given 6 months ago? I was under the impression that they could not bill for service given prior to them being licensed to do so.
Louie Louie I just recieved a letter requesting donations to the squad.....if it is a paid service why should I donate? That is like me donating to the peds or primary care doctor I see!
I just recived a nice letter for a member HRS saying that they can bill back as one year so i could be wrong I am some times very wrong / May be the town can step in maybe not . or a new group of people can start a new squad and keep it free . You cant tell me that there is no one who can voleenter 7t0 3 0r 3to 11 or 11to7
HRS member, I went on the squads website and here is what is there: Dear Residents & Hackettstown Community,
Due to the number of requests for Emergency assistance, The Hackettstown First Aid & Rescue Squad has developed a cost recovery program. The Hackettstown First Aid & Rescue Squad greatly appreciates the support that we have received over the years from residents, visitors, various organizations and the business community.
The continued increase in cost for things such as insurance, training, supplies, repairs and utilities (building expenses) has had a significant financial impact on our ability to operate. The Hackettstown First Aid & Rescue Squad feels these steps are imperative in order to continue to provide the professional level of Emergency Medical Services that have existed in Hackettstown since 1951.
Please be assured that a person’s inability to pay will not affect the level of service provided. Resident’s insurance will be billed and whatever is received from insurance will be accepted as payment. Regardless of insurance, should you have an emergency please dial 911.
Should you have any questions pertaining to this Program please contact us on 908-852-6590
Thank you for your continued support and understanding.
Sincerely,
The Hackettstown First Aid & Rescue Squad
Maybe you can explain this. If the Hospital provides the same service with the same billing (they take what the insurance company pays), how is it beneficial for the taxpayers of Hackettstown to use the squad and keep paying taxes to them and contributing to their equipment, when they would not have to pay a penny in taxes or contributions to the hospitals equipment? I may be missing something that you can clear up, and not all of the hear say that goes on. Thank you.
think i am going to quit my legit job, move to main street, look for day work, and get everything for free...except i would really hate to drag my laundry down main street in a cart.
Gen3Townie 
iJay So this volunteer organization is getting taxpayers funds, does fundraising, and bills for services.
If this isn't illegal it should be.
is it a registered non-profit?
Fund raiseing
When was the last time you see HRS on the road side with a coin toss When? when have you see the HRS with a colection bucket a a event in town ? Just a letter of funds request ,yes you do that .
Why would life long members up and quit over this ?
"The continued increase in cost for things such as insurance, training, supplies, repairs and utilities (building expenses) has had a significant financial impact on our ability to operate"
training- let the memners pay for there training
supplies used - bill for that
insurance repairs and utilities (building expenses) fund raisers for that
Snapper you clearly work for the hospital. Stop trying to jockey for them. Caged you really do not know what is going on. Most of you are just spewing out conjecture and wild hypothesis to support something you do not have the facts on. By the way the hospital wants a contract with the town and believe me if you ride with them you will pay every dime. They will come after you where as with the squad if you are a reiddent they take only what insurance pays. It's been free for too long people. Time to get with reality.
The Truth! Spelled "resident" wrong. Sorry. I think everyone has jumped to a conclusion and they don't even have the facts. As responsible towns members it is up to us to get the facts. People on this forum and making and organization that has helped us for 60 years lol like greedy crooks. Not fair at all. Listen are taxes really don't pay anything to the squad. You pay 5 dollars or so for municipal services. Do you think that covers the squads budget? Let's be adults and cintact someone at the squad who can speak intelligently.
Maybe you can explain this. If the Hospital provides the same service with the same billing (they take what the insurance company pays), how is it beneficial for the taxpayers of Hackettstown to use the squad and keep paying taxes to them and contributing to their equipment, when they would not have to pay a penny in taxes or contributions to the hospitals equipment? I may be missing something that you can clear up, and not all of the hear say that goes on. Thank you.
Snapper,
The hospital's ambulance is in business to make money for the hospital. HRMC is part of the Adventist Health Care System which is based in Maryland and as such is regulated by the folks in Maryland. Their ambulance service is totally paid and has no volunteers. These employees not necessarily from Hackettstown or the surrounding area. HRS's members are from the community and the surrounding area. These volunteers are your neighbors who have a stake in what goes on in the commuity and have been since 1951.
HRMC ambulance recently transported a friend of mine and his bill was $2500. His insurance paid $500 and they went after him for the rest. If a person without insurance were to utilize the hospital's ambulance they would still be billed and it would be pursued. The same would be true for someone whose insurance did not pay the full bill. HRS is only looking to recoup our expenses including having a crew in the building weekdays to answer calls quicker, the cost of supplies and vehicle repair and maintenance (including vehicles assigned to HRS that are owned by the town). Donations have continually decreased over the last several years while, as with everyting else, costs have increased. The town stipend to HRS has not increased since 2004. The town budget is approximately $10million. The HRS stipend is approximately 0.004% of the town budget. (The police budget is roughly 10% for comparison). The strategy that HRS is undertaking is not new. It is currently being used in three other communities in Warren County and several in Hunterdon county. It is the standard in most areas of the country.
HRSMember maybe if HRS advised the town and the residents in advance that this was coming instead of dropping it on them like an atom bomb there wouldn't be such a backlash. I think the real problem here is HRS handled this poorly.
Honesty As some one who has been here for many years lets I support the Squad. There explanation is good it may not be the way people wanted to hear it but it is there in Black and White. It is time to cut the Rescue Squad some slack here. Maybe they did not handle it the way we would have liked to hear it but the signs were there. We as local residents were not listening. Sorry HRS that you are forced to bill our insurance companies. It is a benefit that we have and they insurance companies have been keeping for them selves if not paid out. HRS Please find a way to tell us things more forthcoming in the future. I still support them lets as towns people not forget all the years they have been here and saved many of us. Thanks HRS.
http://www.78rescue.org/custom.html?id=13815 According to HRS the town did know what was going on. I guess it was just the residents who got the wool pulled over there eyes. I retract my previous statment. I don't know somthing doesn't seem right about this but I guess it's time to move on from this argument.
I am glad to see that there is more information out there.
In Mt Olive the volunteer squads have been working on doing the same thing. eventually when the contract is up with HRMC the service will be provided by a paid crew and they will be billing like HRS is doing.
@ the truth
( I will deal with you first )
"Caged you really do not know what is going on. Most of you are just spewing out conjecture and wild hypothesis to support something you do not have the facts on. By the way the hospital wants a contract with the town and believe me if you ride with them you will pay every dime. They will come after you where as with the squad if you are a reiddent they take only what insurance pays. It's been free for too long people. Time to get with reality."
From Caged "
I very well know what is going on ! your trying to force a payed squad on the town you want to buy the bank acroos t the street . You limit the number of members you will take and you set crew hours . there are people who have come to you to VOLUNTEER and they are turned down and have said so on othere threads in these forums
the news paper reported that the basic charge was 450.dollars you tell me how you spend 450dollars on a sick person transport break it down for me ,
"It's been free for too long people. Time to get with reality."
time to get with reality its time to remember the Ideals of what and why People VOLUNTEER or have you forgotten what that means and why the towns people started a HRS
@Concerned Person
Lets dump more billing on a all ready straining heathcare provider and lets keep inflateing the cost of healt care
if they have to bill for what is used fuel and supplys .for in town trans port 20bucks for fuel and what other supplys use . I can see that . and to back bill a year is wrong .
@Honesty
"According to HRS the town did know what was going on. I guess it was just the residents who got the wool pulled over there eyes. I retract my previous statment. I don't know somthing doesn't seem right about this but I guess it's time to move on from this argument."
No your wrong it's not time to Move on see thats the ("oooh why bother additude") and may be the towns people will step up to the plate and donate like I said when I have called for squad for our house bang i send a 100.oo check to our squad they have fund drives i send some money , if they have a money toss set up road sid i drop them some bucks
IFD 73 FIre wrecked there Tanker i sent them 100.oo bucks to help why they Back up Mt lake when we need them
So Dont just lay down and take it
To HRS
I have no ill feeling to any Member or Officer and you have served the hackettstown people well over the years and will still do that
but if you would have voiced it louder to the towns people that you are in need it would have been answered with out billing
send Volunteers out with that vintage rig to cops and rodders set up a dontation drive / to high school sports event . to the cruse night on stigher street to the county fair to motor madness to the fair in town Volunteers rember that word
HRSMember - The way I understand how the hospitals squad works is that they take what the insurance pays, and then bills the patient. If the patient does not pay, they write it off as charity care, being they are hospital affiliated..... I respect the volunteers, but people like myself can't afford taxes going up, especially when we can get the same service for free to the taxpayers. .... Oh, how about the rumor that the squad is trying to purchase the old Chase bank? How are they planning on paying for that?
Oh, HRSMember, I don't believe that the Police own any of their equipment or buildings either. According to what I read when I did some research, the squad, not the town, already owns three property's on Maple Ave, besides the one that they are pursuing now.....
12 Records Found for District: 2108 HACKETTSTOWN Data as of 04/07/11 Page: 1
Block Lot Qual Location Owner
More Info
69 2 105 MAPLE AVE GRATER LLC
More Info
69 8 129-131 MAPLE AVE DETOMBEUR, KEITH & RUE, JAMES K
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69 9 127 MAPLE AVE ROUTE 519 REALTY LLC
More Info
69 11 123-125 MAPLE AVE HACKETTSTOWN FIRST AID & RESCUE SQD
More Info
69 12 121 MAPLE AVE MAPLE AVE GROUP LLC
More Info
69 13 115 MAPLE AVE KASPER, HORST M
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69 14 111 MAPLE AVE LUGO, ISRAEL JR & ALMA
More Info
69 15 109 MAPLE AVE LUCERO, ARTURO D
More Info
70 9 211 MAPLE AVE BELL, DENIS G & GAIL A
More Info
70 10 209 MAPLE AVE RUSSACK, DOUGLAS & MARGARET
More Info
71 3 118 MAPLE AVE JPMORGAN CHASE & CO
More Info
71 3.01 126 MAPLE AVE HACKETTSTOWN FIRST AID & RESCUE SQD
Hey hrs member have you forgot that you didn't tell anyone us taxpayers will pay 24/7 even thought you havea paid crew 3 days a week. Sorry but that CRAP in my world. I hope the town shuts you guys down.
You must remember the insurance dosn't pay the entire $450 they sometimes pay as little as $50.
Boy oh boy! Some of you keep saying that Mr. Sheldon knew but, have you thought maybe he didn't?? All I can say is thank you for the information and not worry who knew what!
Also "concerned person"- are you a member of the squad? Sounds like it!! To the member of HRS- your organization handled this very poorly! You said that you started looking into this a couple years ago and still you never let the residents know!! Not letting people know way before this and now I get a fund drive form with a letter saying you "might" go to billing. What a joke because you already are billing!! Billing people for services rendered a almost a year ago is terrible. The town should forgo any more payments to the squad now that they are charging and receiving their money!
The question is Now that the Squad see how up rooted the towns people are becomeing over this are you willing to find other ways to fund the Squad ? And to the people of Hackettstown are you willing to start funding the Squad better with out the billing ?
should the town close down the Squad and have the Fire co take over like other towns have ?
If the squad would allow more members if they payed there own training would they have more members to fill more shifts?
People say Its the way things are but do they have to be just because some one says this is the way of the times ?
What Happen to the word VOLUNTEER?
How many of you have called for a squad and made a donation for there service .? how many have not ?
The squad is only using paid people on certain days, I believe it is three days, so on the other four days and nights volunteers will respond and the squad still will bill you. So when the volunteer, who i have the utmost respect for, comes out at 2 am, the volunteers do not get paid but the squad does. So 1,000 squad calls x $650 = $650,000 a year. It's not about serving the residents, it is about making money. I would like to thank Mr. Sheldon for his service.
Whining about this on here does no good. The people who were in the know also sit on the council so you should be voicing your concern with them. I really do not see the issue. The squad will not make you pay the amount your insurance company will not. They are required to bill 24/7 that is why even when the volunteers come out you get billed. The money has to go back into the squad for them to retain there volunteer status so I do not believe they are making a profit.. What good would "closing the squad down" do.
Since there is no more free rescue squad, How much do you expect to pay? Well, my wife that has MS was billed for $700.00. $600.00 was for loading charges. Other for gas and milage. Not, what type of emergency it was. We live less than 1 miles away. The squad building is lest than 2 1/2 miles away. The government allows you to write off $.50 to $.60 cents a milage. Use of the vehicle must be $95.00 a call.
Mr Sheldon, I thank you for you and your family time while being on the squad.
Did I mention that our son was on the squad. He now lives in WI. Been on the service squad were they get paid a small amount. They get paid from the town.
We should have been charge $12.00 a person per year. A family of one pays $12.00 a family of five pays $60.00. This can be pay to the town to be divided among the Volunteer of Hackettstown Resue Squad.
bluebird I got billed one time from Mansfield Squad, over $600 for a 12 mile ambulance ride to Hackettstown Hospital.
mona A couple of weeks ago I got a bill from them for $700 and it was for service 1 year ago! good luck with getting that paid HRS!
I am in southern IL on business now and the area is quite rural.
If you need more than basic care, you are flown by medivac to a hospital in Evansville IN or St Louis MO.
The medivac company allows residents to enroll in the service for $55 per year and they will no charge more than insurance (if any) will pay. If you choose not to subscribe, they will bill and collect the full charge which I am told is several thousand dollars....
I still say to HRS
Get out raise the funds to run the squad
Charge for suplys used
amazed
No profit, let's just say the squad does 1,000 calls a year x $700= $700,000. I have no idea what it takes to run a squad but I believe their maybe a profit there.
It's a universal problem - http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2011/10/rescue_squads_consider_chargin.html
I find the anger and tone of criticism in response to this issue amazing. A group of volunteers provide service to aid the medical care of those in the town. Clearly under-funded, clearly discussed at a town meeting (though it does appear that more could have been done to communicate to the public), and a decision was made to try to implement a plan that would allow the agency to collect money for their services from those covered, without limiting service or requiring co-pays or payment from those uninsured. The typical "run" is billed, not just for the cost of fuel, but for the cost of upkeep and presence of the agency.. I am sure no one is getting rich on this. If you object, perhaps you could find a way to improve the funding, it seems that donations from the good people of the town have seriously dwindled. And yes, if the service is taken over by HMRC, you can BET on a big bill whether you have insurance or not. Giving it over to the fire department doesn't solve the problem of how these services are funded. Great that some of you donate when you use the service, but who is to pay for the service's presence, its being ready to come when you call. I am really dumfounded when I read some of the narrow-minded responses to this issue.
pmnsk pmnsk - Aren't you the same person who 4 minutes earlier wrote on another thread, "I must say, however, that there are always many perspectives on any situation.."
@pmnsk
" but who is to pay for the service's presence, its being ready to come when you call. I am really dumfounded when I read some of the narrow-minded responses to this issue."
Please dont be Dumfounded
Pay for the service Presence? Correct me if i am wrong/ you want to be a member of a squad you go to the meetings you apply you go get the training that is needed ( note you pay for it ) and then you get on the squad you make your self ready to serve your community your doing this for the betterment of your community how do you fund the squad with fund rasiers yes fund raisers every thing from dinners to coin tosses to mail out donation letters , plus the town can provide some money . and i dont have any trouble with a a payment for service but charge for what it costs to resupplly what was used like fuel and one use products ,
if the people of Hackettstown want a full time ready to go Squad then the town should provide it and Tax for it
let me ask you when HRS was formed why was that done?
thats like why is there a hospital in Hackettstown ?
Dear Caged Animal I really think you are blowing this way out of proprtion. You obviously have no clue about the amount of capital needed to provide this service and the amount provided by the town is very miniscule compared to actual operational cost. Recent state laws limit the ability to have coin tosses. And from what I've heard new members are always welcomed whith open arms. To think that any call related to fire protecion draws you deeper into your fantasy world..don"t think you have your facts straight.
proben59 OK while everyone is complaining about being charged $600-$700 dollars by HRC let me share this with you. I recently was transported by HRMC ambulance to Morristown Hospital. The emergency treatment that I needed could not be provided by HRMC so it was "arranged" for me to be transported to Morristown. I thought that it was a part of the hospital bill and that my insurance would cover it since the service was not provided by HRMC. Well I just got a bill from HRMC ambulance for $2600.00 !!! And it's not covered by my insurance. I would like to point out that it is 34 miles from Htown to Morristown Hospital. That would be $76.50 per mile. I was never informed of any choices in transportation, nor was I given any advance notice of the cost of this service. I could have taken a limo for $200.00 or less as I was medically "stablized" at that time. And you guys think that Htown rescue squad has some nerve charging what they charge? Don't EVER let HRMC ambulance take you ANYWHERE. I would advise you to BEG to have the Hackettstown Rescue Squad transport you.
mr2cool 
caged animal,
Just like everything in health care there are rules and regulations. There was limits to what is paid for but Medicare, Medicaid and commercial insurances companies. You are beating a dead horse.
The way things are set up is why you pay $5 for an Apsrin in the hospital. Not everyone has insurance and you will be paying to fill in the gap.
Would you have them park the ambulance on the side main street with a sign like this?
@CJ
"You are beating a dead horse."
You want me to Beat a live horse I will ?
"Would you have them park the ambulance on the side main street with a sign like this?"
If thats what it takes yes .
and charge for what it costs not what you hope to get
I wouldnt mind paying, if I needed their services, just keep it reasonable. $600 for 12 miles IS NOT reasonable, its ridiculous.
I believe most insurance companies will pay about 450.00 even if billed 600.00 you will not be sent to collections the option to pay any bal due is optional
do you say the same thing about the hospital that will charge you 20.00 for two asperin?
How about the fact that they are "back-billing"?? If you were taken by the squad before they began to charge you, you will get a bill for that service now! That is terrible!!
Its pretty much the same as if you have a hospital stay you usually don"t get an itmized bill until 30,60 or even 90 days later.
How will you collect from an Illegal Alien if they have a fake name and address ? Oh, ha ha , they don't have to pay anything now - we all pay for them.
Yes, BLD2, there are many perspectives to any situation.. people making judgements without knowledge is what gets my goat, and that was what I was responding to..
boney sono,
you are already paying for it. both at the hospital that they went to and gave a fake name, in the income tax they don't pay. keep going there is alot that you are paying for for them.
Illegal Aliens
what is that we dont have any of them in Hackettstown gee what are you people thinking /
We could have landlords only rent to none ilegals by haveing t hem report undocumented aliens
we could have school systemes ask for the proper ID to in roll a child in school thus keeping them out of the schools
we could have banks and check cashing operations require proper ID
DMC and no license with out proper ID
you over stay your visa and your hunted down asap and re moved
I could find 1000 ways to catch Ilegals and send them packing
I will say that if the cost was less to become a citizen more would try 10,000 to 15,000 is to much way to much
but the Ilegals dont drive up the cost of a squad
Caged,
They don't contribute to it and yes they do use it.
How is that not driving up the cost. And the length of time on scene trying to figure out just what the heck they are saying.
If you think it is hard to get the correct story from someone speaking english try getting the correct story from someone not speaking english.
Oh and don't forget the drifters that rent rooms by the week on Main St. They Blow into town from all over. They too use the Squad and don't contribute.
@CJ
We dont know who contributes and who dose not unless a check and someone posts who contributed .
and if the Squad had afund drive like a coin toss you will not know who droped a dollar on the blanket .
and yes they use it
"How is that not driving up the cost. And the length of time on scene trying to figure out just what the heck they are saying. "
now your hiting on the right drum but if some one is here and just visiting for a bit and cant speak english we have to over look the fact that they dont speak engilsh
But if your here hideing in America you better learn to speak english and if your going to be come a Citizen you better learn it
and yes your right that the time it takes to figure out what they say cand put the squad to have to call the next town for help if another call comes up but what comes a round gose a round on aid
so then if HRS is out on a call and they get two other calls Mansfield has to respond to one and Independance has to respond to the other do you think that HRS will bill for it and send the money to the other Squads ?
Whats going to happen when HFD requests the squad on scene at a fire will th esquad charge the fire co ?
will the squad charge the Boe for every sports event ?
will the squad charge the town for events held by the town ?
Actually HRS can not bill for a call they didn't handle. But out of Independace and Mansfield, the Person that was treated by Mansfield will get a bill because they bill.
As far as stand by no. There is no bill for that. They can set up a rate to bill for a stand by service but most community departments don't bill for that. On the other hand you a private service might.
As far as tossing a dollar or something during a coin toss, it wasn't enough. So there you go. BILL for services.
It is here and there is nothing you can do about it. It is the way of the future.
@CJ"It is here and there is nothing you can do about it. It is the way of the future"
I just love this statement
LOL
well if the residents of the town of hackettstown by vote or referemdum force the town to have there own Squad they can pull the charter from HRS tell the county not to dispatch them as the town squad because they are now have a fire and resque squad they can
and that could very well be the thing of the future
but when has HRS ever they set up donation drive othe then the mail outs there are lots of places they could have fund drives or are they above that
M&Ms Motor madness is one get a space and put that old truck ther ans ask for funding if ony a 1000dollars are gotten its a step in the right way at the foot ball games and there are ways
Funny to hear that it shouldn't cost so much to transport. When you drive your car to work, does it just cost $5 in gas? no it doesn't. Add in car insurance, registration fees, maintenance and it costs more than the five dollars. Ambulances have to also be licensed by the state which costs more. The supplies needed are not cheap. The volunteers have done fund drives at the street fair, community day and other events and most people just smile and walk past or purposely avoid looking at the squad member who by the way is standing at these events for hours on thier days off from the one or two jobs they have. How do you all spend your days off? probably not donating your time to help others.
Mickey This is my first post on this discussion. This discussion is getting very old. No one on here complained when Mansfield EMS started billing. Most of you think it was the best thing since electricity. When HRS does it you think it's the worst thing in the world. Talk about talking out of both sideas of your mouth!
Caged animal--your posts do nothing but fuel the fire on an issue that most people have accepted as the way HRS now operates. I find it quite interesting that you don't even live in Hackettstown. You live out in Liberty but feel the need to stir the pot about issues in Hackettstown that are NON-ISSUES. Apparently you need something to occupy your time. Maybe you should take up crossword puzzles--it would be a much more constructive of everyone's time.
@Weary
Let me set you straight on me first I have a lot of family and friends in Hacketts town and if the thought of the way some thing is handled i will speak out about it
and i dont follow every issue so when mansfield went to billing I was not watching but here we go with the health care issue
the squad will charge 450dollars to the insurance co and if the insurance co pays out only 80 dollars the squad will say ok that says to me that the service was only worth 80dollars its over chargeing no mater how you look at it
and as far as a topic getting old sorry put on your rose colored glasses and walk away if you want but thats what happens
let me say you dont normaly have a whole family of members quit over a issue
but you say that I need to do crosswords and not speak out here hey then go get your self one too because you will need it
plus 9i feel that the day they said they were chargeing is the day that they should have and not back charged a year back that was wrong to but i have no ill feelings to any member of HRS if thats what you think
Thank you Weary
If caged ever nees and ambulance again and it is during a weekday, there is a good chance the Indepenance Squad will not get out. And if Peggy and her crew in Oxford are already on a call then he will get either Allamuchy or Hackettstown to take him to the hospital. But more then likly he will not see the bill from Hackettstown if the Paramedics are there. I havn't once seen him complain about the $3,000 + bill from the Paramedics. Maybe because he forgot to tell you about his relative Burce who is a paramedic. He would not ever complain about that or the fact that the paramedics bill you for transport even if they don't transport you.
CJ
as most of you known me when ever we have called th squad to our home over the years as soon as I get home from the hospital for my self or a family member i write a check to them for there service and we give to them on a yearly donation all so but thats how we do things in our house , when our family drives and we are con frontes with a coin toss we all ways give we are not like others who just drive by .
CJ
so now you bring in the subject of the paramedic who called them I did not but if they come who should pay for there service the county should
and CJ yes Bruce is a medic and a fair one at that to so whats your point 3000 k why dont we just toss in life fight that had three calls to day and a hospital that cant handle a trama i for get why we stood on the streets with buckets at 46 by the hess station oh yes to bring emergency and genneral hospital services to our area ,
now CJ being that you brought my cousin in to this and he will know he can speak to you about it
have a good day CJ
I was transported by the squad in February and just received a statement from the first aid squad that my insurance paid 560.00. They were billed 700.00 to transport me from the development directly across the street from the hospital including a 15 dollar/mile fee for 5 miles. I'm not sure where the 5 miles came from. Do you think the cost includes the responder's trip to the squad building? I am not sure how I feel about this whole situation. On one hand I see the squad wanting to take advantage of a funding source... I just have some questions and maybe someone on the forum knows the answers! Can someone shed light on how much the town funds the first aid squad? I understand the amount hasn't been increased. Has the town funded any of the cost of the vehicles or is it strictly through fundraising and donations? Also, does anyone know if the amount collected by the first aid squad within a fiscal year will be a matter of public record? It would be interesting to see. I do appreciate that we have a volunteer squad and I think they do an awesome job. It just seems that the way the fees are charged should be uniform..... If the squad becomes a for-profit organization, does anything go back to the taxpayers or is it an entity completely separate from the town? As an aside, I also think that the insurance companies are going to catch on to this as it becomes the norm and pass the cost on to those of us who are lucky enough to have insurance. Insurance premiums go up and my contribution toward healthcare goes up too. As I said, I really don't have an opinion on this....I'm really just trying to gather information to better understand the impact of this change in procedure.
They are Paid now during the day Monday thru Thursday. You will see some of the costs going to that now.
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